Saberlock Sure Winner Everytime!!!!!!

[*T¥RANITH*]

It wouldn't last forever, saber locks are limited to a certain amount of time. If this time is up before there is a clear winner, both parties are hurled back slightly and they both have a couple second recovery time.

Imo, if everyone used this script, u might as well just take out saber locks from the game, as they cease to be a measure of skill.

[Patton]

While button mashing really isn't a skill, neither is being able to write scripts.

 

The script this is a cheat in my opinion. When Raven designed the game, they made the saber-lock the way it is for a good reason. What other solution could there be, other than to not include the ability to lock? Remember: you can turn off saber locking when you start a server.

 

Just because someone sits at their computer writing a script while someone else just plays the game, it doesn't give the script writer a license to an advantage over others. Thats like going into your Half-Life folder with the MDL viewer, and coloring all your CS models orange. Its not a hack, because anyone can do it, but it DOES give an unfair advantage. CS models are locked completely now, I think. Not sure though, I stopped playing awhile ago.

 

But my point is: just because its available, doesn't make it right. Its also been my experience that knocking someone down from a saber lock is not much of an advantage, so whats the point in using it?

[Territo]

\bind x "+attack;wait;-attack;wait+attack;wait;-attack;wait+attack;wait;-attack;wait+attack;wait;-attack;wait"

 

So if I bind that I would just hold the x button during a saberlock and win most of the time right? How do you toggle it so if you press it again it will turn off?

[Aerys]

A case could be made that anything external to the original game design that gives you an advantage that isn't available to the other players is a cheat.

 

No, saying "anyone else can do it too" is not a valid reason to use it.

 

I've seen many games ruined by this type of fallacious logic. Its just and excuse for you to get away with avoiding something the other guy has to do.

 

Ergo, you're a cheater.

[Soul-Burn]

I guess me having brains and skill (hypothetically) which is something that isn't available to others (hypothetically) is cheating too?

 

Me using a mouse while others play with keyboard is cheating? (again hypothetically)

 

Having a L337 machine with DSL while others have an old P1 with 56k is cheating? no.

[Vestril]

I guess me having brains and skill (hypothetically) which is something that isn't available to others (hypothetically) is cheating too?

 

Brains and skill at writing scripts, not playing Jedi Knight--so you're good at programing! Its the most powerful skill in the game, why bother getting good at gameplay when you can just program around it and win every time.

 

You're using poor logic and they've shown that by indicating where it leads, theoretically anything you CAN alter, you were meant to alter--by your reasoning; so then all hacks and cheats are fine. If that is your philosophy, fine, good for you, keep it off of pure servers.

[andywebs]

You are allowed/encouraged to make your own bindings. I can't believe you are saying that binding the keys differently is cheating??? Only binding a key different for taking a screenshot is okay! Are you #%$@ kidding me. I haven't written any scripts, but i sure as hell have added some bindings. like a binding to set my admin password on my dedicated server. In your reasoning, i should have to type \rconPassword "youwish" every time, and sometimes mistype it, and broadcast my password??? Cause that's what would happen, i'm an idiot, and mistrype stuff all the time. (yes i see that i mistyped mistype). Bind away, script away, if they didn't want you to do it, they would have made it so you couldn't. They don't want hacks, they made a way for you to prevent that (pure server, etc..) Yes, you can hack and eventually get around it, but they attempted to prevent it, they did not attempt to prevent scripts, or binding, therefore i see them as allowing, and encouraging them.

[Darth Viersaan]

I betcha half the people who said it is a cheat copied the script and put it in their JK2MP.cfg

[Udi]

This isn't cheating...it's just an extension of the advantages binding any keys gives you.

 

As for whether it should actually be possible to use it, no, I think in the next patch there should be something stopping you from doing it.

 

Like it has been said - if everyone uses it, no-one will ever win and sabre locks may as well be removed from the game.

 

But at the minute, I think it's perfectly fair - let's face it being good at FPS these days is not just about playing the game - you have to know how to use everything to your best advantage...whether it be binding keys to change your spawn settings or using external voice comms to win team games.

[SnowMongoose]

Wow.

 

 

If someone actualy thinks that writing a script like this is as bad as an Aimbot...

then thats pretty messed up. (IMO)

For one thing, this only uses commands provided in the game FOR OUR USE.

Secondly, the ability for users to modify the config file outside of the game gived us licence to do such a thing, while also implying the designers intent for us to have things like this.

(They could have limited us to modifying the config from inside the game)

Thirldy, the amount of exraneous code alone puts an aimbot outside the league of a simple script like this...even before looking at the logistics of ****ing with the game engine for aimbot/other cheats.

 

Pretty much, I suppose if you want to be really anal about it you could freak out about this....

but most regular players wont.

 

*T¥RANITH*

Just because you have mutant pointer fingers or something doesnt mean that the rest of us should have to beat the hell out of our mice for a saber lock.

You have the ability to click fast....some of us have the ability to write scripts.... dont make our ability go to waste!

 

Phew....

oh, btw....how about a saber color script?

from some of what I heard here, that would be nearly as bad as an Aimbot... it's a script! unfair advantage! heh...oh well

 

lol

Snow

[Hell Raiser]

Is it me, or am I the only one who has Fire 1 binded to my left mouse button, and num pad enter just for saber locks? I had the same concern about my mousebutton, but c'mon, numpad enter?

[Waspie]

Like it or not, this is a cheat.

 

If I were to enter a marathon and use a dune buggy to win, would that not be cheating?

 

Granted, that's a rather stupid example, but just as it wasn't you doing the running in the example, you're not the one doing the clicking. The dune buggy and scripts are both tools. Just as you're expected not to use dune buggies in marathons, it's proper not to give yourself a leg-up by exploiting something that's there for your benefit.

 

I can't go onto a server anymore without being assaulted by scores of idiots leaping around and repeatedly DFAing without end. It's obviously scripted and it's also obviously pathetic. Sure, it gets you a few easy frags, but any good player can easily counter it. I wish they'd give it a rest and actually LEARN AND PLAY THE GAME.

 

And as for "Wacky Animating Names" and "Saber-Color-Cycling" scripts, give that a rest, too. It's an annoyance and a waste of bandwidth to our 56k friends.

[Soul-Burn]

A dune buggy is against the rules of the marathon.

 

Giving us the console allows us to modify the interface with whatever is there. It's Raven's responsibility to disable commands that can lead to exploiting.

 

Making a script like this is, for a marathon, buying a better set of shoes. This is while others don't know that having better shoes helps.

[Vestril]

You are allowed/encouraged to make your own bindings. I can't believe you are saying that binding the keys differently is cheating??? Only binding a key different for taking a screenshot is okay! Are you #%$@ kidding me. I haven't written any scripts, but i sure as hell have added some bindings. like a binding to set my admin password on my dedicated server. In your reasoning, i should have to type \rconPassword "youwish" every time, and sometimes mistype it, and broadcast my password??? Cause that's what would happen, i'm an idiot, and mistrype stuff all the time. (yes i see that i mistyped mistype). Bind away, script away, if they didn't want you to do it, they would have made it so you couldn't. They don't want hacks, they made a way for you to prevent that (pure server, etc..) Yes, you can hack and eventually get around it, but they attempted to prevent it, they did not attempt to prevent scripts, or binding, therefore i see them as allowing, and encouraging them.

 

Errrrmmm...calm down big guy, the thing about the screenshots was what we on planet earth like to call 'an example' the

example you listed would fall under that. Sheesh.

 

A dune buggy is against the rules of the marathon.

 

Giving us the console allows us to modify the interface with whatever is there. It's Raven's responsibility to disable commands that can lead to exploiting.

 

Making a script like this is, for a marathon, buying a better set of shoes. This is while others don't know that having better shoes helps.

A marathon is really a poor example because it lacks in the multiple skills area. To win a marathon you have to be able to run fast...for a long time. You can't write a script that tells your legs to do the same thing again and again for a long time.

 

I think its pretty clear that there is a difference between writing a script and binding a key to simplify, if you can't see it you are either deluding yourself or lying to the rest of us. There is a big jump in the level of skill needed to overcome a good script as opposed to a good key config. A good bind setup streamlines and subtly improves play. A good script (like saberlock) makes it so that you win saber locks almost every time.

 

If a newbie got that perfect key config his play would not dramatically increase, if, however, he got that script, his ability to win saber locks would skyrocket. I realize that locks are a small part of the game but they are an example for a larger issue.

[RedFox]

does script = cheat?

 

There are thousands of cheats (scripts i mean not actual cheats) in Half-Life etc then

[Soul-Burn]

script != cheat

 

You can't write a script that tells your legs to do the same thing again and again for a long time.[/QOUTE]

 

bind x "wait;+forward"

bind x "-forward"

 

 

If they though people will make scripts, they'd change it. It's obvious people will make these stuff.. either to win or to save their mice.

[Vestril]

bind x "wait;+forward"

 

Where exactly is the X on your body?...

 

If they though people will make scripts, they'd change it. It's obvious people will make these stuff.. either to win or to save their mice.

 

Fair 'nuff, its just that when it becomes about who can activate their script faster or who's script is better written...it becomes a different sort of game, and it seems fair to leave pure servers to those who don't feel like playing it. You never addressed my main concern which is that people who are good programmers, but poor JK players could come on to a server and win, where';s the fun in that? I enjoy beating other people, not programming my computer to beat other people. If you want to do that go program your own game, you're obviously clever enough to do it

 

I don't mean to come across as a whiner...I quite honestly don't think I've ever knowingly lost a match because someone had written a script, I just see where it could easily lead and it doesn't seem good, RedFox brought up Half-Life and that really isn't a great example for how alteration to game code improves the fun of a game...

[*T¥RANITH*]

Originally posted by Soul-Burn

I guess me having brains and skill (hypothetically) which is something that isn't available to others (hypothetically) is cheating too?

 

Me using a mouse while others play with keyboard is cheating? (again hypothetically)

 

Having a L337 machine with DSL while others have an old P1 with 56k is cheating? no.

 

No soul-burn, that's not what I am saying at all.

I said that anything that alters the game BEYOND what the programmers intended is cheating.

People here are using the quake3 engine to gain an advantage over others. If raven had intended people to do this they would have included a 'win every time' button under the controls menu. Sounds a bit silly when u put it like that doesn't it

When u talk about having an advantage of brains and skill over others, that is the only advantage that people should have over each other. Ok so, having a 1337 machine + DSL against someone with a P1 and 56K, that is UNAVOIDABLE.

It's not really about what IS cheating and what ISN'T. It's about ethics and morality, and honour above all else.

Take this example:

Ok so athlete runners... each has a different skill level, this is what separates them, and is supposed to be there (as the race is a measure of skill). Are you saying that the runner with access to more resources, more training, better equipment, has the RIGHT to a more assured win? No! of course not! But THAT is unavoidable. When you look at something like steroids, of course, that IS considered cheating and is illegal.

Hope u catch my drift.

The game shouldn't be about who can wite the better scripts, it should be about who can play the game with skill and intelligence, and dedication to getting better at it.

[*T¥RANITH*]

What are people talking about 'battering the hell out of your mouse' ???

I click mine uber-fast (and not because of 'mutant-pointer' fingers, SnowMongoose, that was a very immature and potentially offensive comment) and my mouse hasn't got damaged at all

Maybe it's just the way I click it, but to click the thing quickly, doesn't mean you have to click it hard

[SnowMongoose]

Excuse me?

 

"SnowMongoose, that was a very immature and potentially offensive comment"

 

OK....I appollogize on the freak chance that someone here was offended by that because they have mutated fingers. (!?)

I do not see how that would be considered immature...just slightly amusing.

If anyone with mutated pointer fingers takes offence, I will delete or modify that post.

 

IMO, the reasons binds and scripts such as this are 100% OK is due to both the gaming communites acceptance of them

(I never really saw anyone complain about scripts before this argument, aside from some small dispute about bunnyhoppng scripts in CS), and the designers letting us acsess the required file to do so.

They INTENDED for us to be able to modify these files.....so we did.

 

In terms of scripts destroying the skill involved, and assuring the win.... that is no exactly true. I seriously doubt you could make a script that would win you the duel every time...

the closest thing I can come up with is bound DFA attacks..and most skilled players can avoid those.

A script for such a thing as a saber lockhas so little effect on the overall outcome of the game (due to their rarity) that it really does not matter.

 

Snow

[zenroth]

As a player that normally fights very honerable or atleast I belive so, I have problems with such a script. But then again as a script writer for games in the past(mostly quake 1 mega team fortress) I can appreciate and understand such a script.

 

I suppose if I had the "must win" attitude I see alot online I would probally be using scripts, but currently I have enough self imposed problems such as not attacking 2 fighting players in ffa, not using things like grip, lightning, not pushing people down then simply hacking them,etc.

[Udi]

A marathon runner could have the best training an legal drugs to help them train - on the day they will use the best footwear money can buy.

 

Another marathon runner, has no money, is a charity runner, but still wants to win every bit as bad as the pro...he can't afford the gear/drugs/personal trainers.

 

The second guy still enters because he knows that he enjoys it for what it is, and simply deals with what situation he's in. He doesn't moan that all the pros are cheating, they do have an advantage, but it is legal and fair.

 

Marathon organisers could say that everyone can use no gear/drugs etc other than those supplied to them on the day and force everyone to train the same - that would make it fairer sure...

 

No matter what you do, you have to use the opportunites to your best advantage - whether this be the best trainers, or sitting down for a few hours an learning how to script something well within the rules.

 

It may come down to money/scripting - but if it's allowed, it's allowed.

 

As I said before - playing FPS games these days is about more than playing the game...or else why would we all discuss tactics etc in here?

[Odyssey Wing]

it might not considered as a cheat for the person using it, but it is to the others

 

joysticks are different though. they might have the ability to do autolock on (or whatever its called), but using it as a movement or aiming is not that great.

 

if you're using a script to win a fight, then i would consider that cheating.

 

a marathon runner is different though. drugs or better running shoes might make help them a little but it doesnt allow them to win every marathon.

[Gummy]

Originally posted by SnowMongoose

It is NOT a cheat.

 

Just means that the person using has invested more time/energy into the game than you have.

 

Snow

 

Some people spend time hacking

[SnowMongoose]

Yeah, yeah, hacking falls under that heading...

But as I explained, hacking is beyond the scope of these scripts.

(Knowing how to script is just an advantage one gains from long experience with game engines...its coo)

 

I have seen lots of lame stuff this morning...

Lots of DFA whores who couldnt do it themselves, so they have it bound...bah

I have also seen lots of people playing dead?!

wth is that?

(Not very convincing on deul servers though!)

 

Oh, for the record, I do not use the saber lock script...

dont want to waste a key, and I can win the few that I get into anyway

 

My Saber Color script is just way too cool!

I wanna get a bunch of people on a small map, and get a disco going!!!

 

Snow