Is it just me - or is heavy the only thing used anymore?

[Icebreaker]

Two words: saber throw.

 

When a red stancer does the special move, you can at least throw twice at him before he recovers, and following that, you can do a blue special move in the air (it's possible) and get 2 more hits. He should be dead by then.

 

Red stancers rely heavily on luck. If you stay alert, you can avoid all of his hits easily.

[Jedi-Bert]

actualy ive seen mostly yellow stance

[Rogue74]

Heavy attacks are extremely easy to master,

 

Right... that's why there are people on every server that have "mastered" it yet I kick their butts every time becuase they are just swinging wildly, they haven't mastered it. You'll know the person who mastered it, because your supposed strategy of using light and medium attacks against it won't work.

 

Having said that, I switch styles multiple times in a fight depending on how good or bad the opponent is. I don't think the strong stance is any kind of problem. You just need to find ways to defeat each PERSON not each stance. The stance is only as good as the person using it.

[Jedi_Monk]

I mostly stick to Yellow stance; for a while there, I got a "method" of balancing which stance I used. Well, I got my @$$ kicked constantly durring those few weeks. I've much recovered since concentrating on mastering Yellow. I've defeated several excellent, dominating Red Stancers. The only time I really switch, now, is when I've just won a saber-lock and opponent is on the ground. I switch to Heavy half-way through the block and take a nice swipe at them while they're out cold.

 

That said, I hate people who spam DFA, and I've played quite a few of them.

[Caster]

Agreed.

 

Heavy stance is overused a lot and most people can't even look good while using it. Even I'm starting to use it exclusively when I was previously a medium stance user.

 

From how I've played it, heavy stane looks the best when you include jumps, rolls and walljumps. Most people just swing on the go and don't bother realizing how way open they are to regular weapon fire when they swing left and right running everywhere.

 

The DFA attack is spammed a lot too. It's value is pretty much cheapened now since most people use it every few seconds instead of every few minutes as a finishing move as stated in the manual.

 

Personally, for me the DFA is usually used to start or end a duel, not used again and again in between. So I try to only use it when I know it's gonna hit like when my opponent is knocked onto the ground or has his/her back turned. It's an okay opening move for a duel, a bit risky at times, but it looks really cool after a dramatic running charge.

 

Too me however, the most powerful move the heavy stance has is the right strafe horizontal swing, that thing has amazing range and a wide area of affect. Usually after hitting some one with it you can follow up with light or medium stance strikes to finish them off.

 

-Caster

[Darth Odisse]

Originally posted by Skrig

...read The Jedi Code...

 

http://www.theforceiswithus.com/jedicode/index.html

 

A code that some Jedi have broken, such as Luke Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi, I can now see why the Jedi got wiped out in the first place..........

[Karikaru]

i use yellow and i can never seem to defeat red ppl. all they do is jump at you, swing and jump back before you can get at them! When you try to get close enough to hit them they will often take you down to 25 hp or kill you in one hit, or you have to roll to dodge them! and then if you DO get a hit off you have taken him down to 60 hp and you need 2 more hits to finish him! for red ppl 1 hit at any time could kill you! Yellow needs to be made stronger or something. may be if they made a bigger defence bonus on yellow so you can actualy block a red swing. I have used red a couple times and it is so dumb! Jedi arent supposed to just swing around all slow hoping something gets in their way.

 

also: why IS red slow? its not like changing your stance makes the thing heavier. You are supposidly using more strength so it should be extremelly fast! The swings are the shortest of any stance so you'd think it would be lightning fast strikes from which there is no escape.

[Tekken]

Geez, USING Red isn't that hard, you just have to pick your spots. And understand that you can't try to use it like you use Yellow or Blue.

 

I'll use Yellow in Duels ; if I get a good hit in, I'll move, switch to Red, and time my opponents subsequent charge. Overhand or righthand slash, duel over.

 

With Red, it's all about the timing. I've spent the majority of my time working with Yellow, so that I have a good feel for the moves. Being able to incorporate Red works well for me. Once I understood that I had to set up my opponent when using Red, it started falling into place. You can't just swing Red to be swinging; that's the path to easy defeat. Each Red swing has to have a DEFINED purpose.

 

DFA spammers? Bah. Takes a lil longer, because I have to be cautious, but they're not that difficult. Patience is the key against them.

 

As to Blue, I find it works well to throw your opponent off balance, or if you can do the forward-lunge move for extra damage. Blue is also a great way to humble someone, if you can control it....hehe..I know!!!!

 

EDIT: Red is slower because you're trading Speed for Power. If you use Blue, you trade Power for Speed. Makes sense, I think. If Red had the speed of Yellow, no one would use anything else...I think that the sabers are balanced. Someone said earlier that "It's not the saber, it's the person using it" or something to that effect. Very true and accurate observation.

[Ono-Sendai]

DFA spammers aside, I'm not sure why people complain about the heavy stance. With its strength comes its weaknesses.

 

The only advantage of the red stance is its striking power and a moderate guard breaking ability.

 

Disadvantages include slow swing speed, long recovery time and the inability to chain together attacks, other than the DFA. This creates a situation where the player must know how and when to use each stroke available. Timing is a huge issue, one that some people cannot overcome. Let's not forget the eight force points one must spend to have access to this style.

 

Whether or not all this justifies the striking power of red style is debatable, but to call it dishonourable is silly. Just like everything else in the game it is counterable. This includes the DFA, although the pinky-toe death property can be rather difficult to judge at times.

 

Also, any person, knowing that their opponent is down to 50 health, would be half-brained to use the red stance. During duels, and even FFA, if I know that I nailed someone with a strong hit, I will immediately switch to medium style to finish them off. It's MUCH easier to make contact using that style.

 

This argument reminds me of my arcade days playing Street Fighter 2 and most of its sequels. Arguments would rage on about a simple tactic - throwing - that was considered cheap. As we became better players, we realized that throwing is an important and valid part of the game's strategy.

 

I agree that the DFA should be toned down, but the rest of the red style is perfectly legitimate.

 

Ono-Sendai

[GooglyMoogly]

Caster mentioned something in his post I think most people overlook. The RANGE of Red stance is the problem. I can avoid Heavy spammers all day long..but sometimes I get hit when Im not even close to them. Im sure some of this is lag, but it seems to me the range of the Red Stance is about twice that of the saber itself.

 

I don't use red stance. I find the fights much more exciting/challenging using yellow and blue with lots of acrobatics. Using these styles you have to be IN-THEIR-FACE to do damage, where as with heavy you need to be anywhere within about 10 game feet and you take damage. Lame.

 

If I see someone that spams this move I eventually refuse to fight them, simply because I find it boring. Heavy has it's place in dueling, but to be used exclusively or even close to exclusively is just simply lame.

 

As soon as someone makes a mod that uses blue/yellow only, it's going on my server.

[Kataarn]

I don't really have a problem with ppl using the red stance, seeing as how I always use yellow, and can avoid any DFA they try to pull off (rolling is a wonderful thing). If nothing else, I force them to switch to a non-DFA stance if they know how to fight, or they end up running around in slow-headless-chicken mode, which is easy to pick off with side slashes and spins.

 

The cheap-move that I find annoying is the kick/push-dfa spam. Kick/push/pull needs to have a WAY shorter recovery time (it should actually be determined by how much you have invested in Jump). It is impossible to avoid this without being a Drain / Absorb wh0re.

 

That's what I find irritating about Red.

 

**EDIT**

@Googly:

 

I agree completely, and will take it one step further.

 

Hit detection needs help.

 

I've been hit by a saber when I was on the OTHER side of the person, to me, that's just plain wrong. I've also been hit when I was about, as you said, 10 game feet away from a DFA...that is also just plain wrong.

 

I will also take it further than patching the hit detection, and will say that one of the following needs to happen:

 

1) Remove the ability to rotate at the end of DFA.

2) Change the damage done by rotation at the end of DFA to regular touched-me-with-the-saber damage. All the massive damage should be done by the swing itself, as in when the down-swing comes in contact with you. At the completion of the downward arc, the damage is returned to regular 5-point run-into-saber-damage.

 

**END EDIT**

[Ideaman]

If you don't like heavy,play holocron game mode,most people will have fast only.

[Jiro Kage]

The most hilarious thing for me is when a person will do the heavy jump over and over. WHAM! They get a thrown saber in their face. Again, and again until they die. Next thing you hear is "Why don't you stop throwing and fight me". I can't help but laugh when I hear that.

[Jahs]

I dont think heavy is overused, not on the servers I play on.

I play with heavy alot because Im not very skilled with normal or fast.

 

I think normal ist just pure luck. you go into a duel and hope you will hit something, that's like a spraying in cs. Heavy is more skill. But that seems to be mine opinion only.

 

besides, heavy is easy to dodge, I never use Heavy against heavy stancers...

[Octavius]

I agree with GooglyMoogly. The prblem is most likely in the range. Perhaps it should even have a variable dmg raet depending on how far you are into the swing (if that is even possible).

 

My point is not that red is undefeatable. I have defeated it many times against a single opponent. My problem was, and still is, defeating a single opponent, when you ahve 3 or 4 more coming at you at the same time, all with heavy. You are gonna die, just face it.

 

My best method of beating a heavy user is with kicks. If i see someone coming in, usually i can tell in a split second what stance they are using. If it is heavy, rather than run, i run AT them, and kick. It usually knocks them on their rear, giving you a nice fat slice to their chest or head. But alas, i have been thwarted many a time when I am doing that very thing by a few other people on his team who decide to stop me by all of them doing a forward/downward heavy slash. Very powerful, and hard to avoid.

 

I do think that red can take some skill. And that those that use it are not all whores. But some are, and often you can tell who they are. THey are the ones jumping around the room, repeatedly swinging heavy. And what is more, they are awesome at vulture kills. -- you know the ones - where you are already in a fight with one or two people, and this guy comes u behind you, getting you before you have a chance to even notice him. Often these same guys are the ones that run like cheetahs when you take chase at them or manage to get some kind of dmg on them.

 

All i am saying, is that people should see the value in using more than heavy. In my opinion, heavy is an augment style, to be used selectively when the time is fitting. Not to be used exclusively.

 

Myself i use yellow, often switching to blue for fast attacks in a heated battle, or red to finish someone who is already near the ropes. Chaining red onto the end of a yellow combo is very VERY useful. But as someone else said, and i agree, red should never e used exclusively.

 

On a side note - perhaps i will have to teach myself the techniques of using heavy more, as it seems to be a growing trend in TFFA at least. If you can get your entire team in one place, and make the majority of them use heavy, you can almost always win, and usually by a landslide...

(to clarify, the games i talk of, are saber only, force powers turned on... Often i do not have push available due to being drained... So if anyone else has good methods for defeating red, post them, i am interested to find out...)

[h71y6]

The truth:

 

Heavy will dominate in FFAs but will not do so in Duels.

[toolboi]

in FFA its hard to beat heavy... of course in FFA I grab a gun and go on a rampage

 

People SO under estimate the power of the repeater and flak cannon (flechette weapon my ass), and even the imperial rifle and wookie crossbow, when in primary fire. I constantly see guys run up to me, go to take a swing, then get ripped apart by my flack cannon (too bad they dont gib like in UT). Of course secondary is useful too, especially for those DFA bastards

 

And yes, in a duel situation blue is VERY effective against red. You can run in, get three hits and roll out easily before a red swing gets to you.