GooglyMoogly Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 I run a server (I rent it so it costs me MONEY!). Last night I was playing with a full crowd when 2 players started abusing the heavy stance. After a short while all the players had left except the heavy spammers (who, of course, had the highest scores). I want everyone to have a good time when they play on my server, but after witnessing this I have come to realize that heavy abuse DOES ruin the game. As a result I have decided to kick heavy abusers from the game if I witness such lameness. I want to encourage skillful play and good times on my server and the current state of the heavy doesn't lend itself to that scenario. I generally don't have a problem killing heavy abusers, and I really do think that it is a valid option, but if the actions of a few ruin the experience for the many I feel I need to take action. Spare me all the "you can counter", "you are lame", "it's a game" responses as I've heard them all a million times before. The bottom line here is that the gaming experience for players that want to actually PLAY the game and not reduce it to a heavy-whore-fest is ruined by those that have no respect for other players. The debate on heavy has been beaten to death, so I'll not address it here other than to state that I do feel it's not conducive to fun play (unless of course you are the abuser, you must be having fun). If you want to use heavy go ahead...but there is a point when it becomes abusive and if that occurs, you're gone..so sorry. Until a better solution comes along, abusive, counter-productive gameplay will be dealt with a swift server kick to the arse. Goodbye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dvlos Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 Whatever I'm tired of all the crying... I have no problem switching styles and still being in the top 3 scorers.. What next GODDAMN HEAL ABUSERS!!!!!! :atat: :atat: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthos Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 Originally posted by GooglyMoogly Spare me all the "you can counter", "you are lame", "it's a game" responses as I've heard them all a million times before. The bottom line here is that the gaming experience for players that want to actually PLAY the game and not reduce it to a heavy-whore-fest is ruined by those that have no respect for other players. Well yes you can counter unless your a newb. and as for the gamin experiance of other players, if they can't take heavy stance, thats great. Then they suck, they are newbs too. No one complains about heavy unless they are too @#%@# bad to counter it. And thats pretty much how it is . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooglyMoogly Posted May 1, 2002 Author Share Posted May 1, 2002 The point is people didnt bitch about these guys, they just LEFT THE GAME. So here I was left to fight two heavy spammers. I do fight them, but the fights are boring, since I can avoid the stupid moves all day long, it forces me to use the same lame counter tactics over and over and over and thats not my idea of fun. Whether it's the inability of heavy victims to handle it or the inability of heavy abusers to actually use some variety is not the point here. My personal feelings towards heavy are rather ambiguous, but when my server goes from a full load to 3 people in a matter of 10 minutes, I think that signifies something! Xanthos...I can counter heavy just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dvlos Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 Then what you are saying is you are playing against 2 lamers? No one likes that.. it has nothing to do with heavy style, just 2 lame players. Same as people who hide and just force push people into holes... repeatedly, or camp, or whatever... Lameness exists.. boot the lamers... not the heavy stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooglyMoogly Posted May 1, 2002 Author Share Posted May 1, 2002 Dvlos...yes that is my intention...I'm not going to boot all heavy users...I've met a few that actually use it well. I'm going to boot the players whose style impedes the enjoyment of the other players on the server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooglyMoogly Posted May 1, 2002 Author Share Posted May 1, 2002 I know Im posting alot to my own thread, but I want to draw one more analogy. Imagine a baseball team full of players with the power of a Mark MacGuire. Sure...all those home runs would be fun for a while, but soon the spectacle would wear off and the play would become boring. "Look out...here comes another long ball!" Not an entirely great analogy, but the same-old same-old just gets...well....old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt_Dancer Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 And thats pretty much how it is . He accepts it... just wants you to remember those exact words when you get booted off a server because the admin doesn't like your repeated overhead heavy slash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue74 Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 abusing the heavy stance Unless this meant that they were excessively using the lunge move and not just staying in heavy stance then I say quit whining about it. Your post made you sound like a big hypocrit because you're obviously "abusing" either light or medium style if you don't use strong stance. I think servers need to start kicking out all the morons who just run around swinging wildly, which I've seen more medium stance people doing anyway. Besides fighting two "heavy lamers" is no problem if you have any skill in the game. Anyone that would kick anybody from a server that is not doing things that are major bad is just really petty. I can't win so I'm gonna kick you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooglyMoogly Posted May 1, 2002 Author Share Posted May 1, 2002 Using yellow or blue all the time is not the same as using heavy all the time. How can anyone play this game and say that?. Heavy is borked..MOST players that I see don't use it skillfully but rather use it like a BFG. I have no problem with players that rotate styles and kill with the heavy as long as it's not their sole tactic. I'm not whining about heavy since I've OWNED many of these players in the past (ho-hum). I'm whining about the fact that when misused it ruins the play experience for other players. Since I am paying for this server and for other people to enjoy it, I owe it to myself and the players to ensure a fun atmosphere. Anything I see that creates an unpleasant experience for other players will be dealt with. With all the posts on this topic I still find it amazing there are still those that defend it. After plaing online games for a while I think we all develop a sense for players that are just "ganks". You now the type, no-holds barred all-out I'm gonna find the most damaging weapon and use it all the time so I can win player. I'll usually spend some time just watching the game and how people play. If I see this sort of behavior continuing for half the game then I'm gonna kick you. Not because I can't fight it, but because I don't want to end up with a server full of people whoring these styles. It's simply not fun. P.S. I don't play to win...I play to have good, exciting fights. It just so happens my idea of a good exciting fight is not heavy whoring. I'm just as happy winning a game as I am getting 4 good bouts in. It's the quality not the quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingman Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 OMG, kicking people for figthing the way they want to fight. That is LAME. You kick people for cheating, hacking, typing crap to everyone instead of fighting, etc Not cause you don't like their fighting style. Everyone does what is fun for them and what they are good at. Heavy stance is not better then medium or light stance, it's different. I use heavy stance cause i am good at it. It takes SKILL to predict where they'll move next so you can slow swing at them cause you definitely can't swing at where they are currently because they'll move by the time the swing comes around plus, if you miss you're open to attack. Cry me a river about heavy stance, it's not overpowerful (and no i don't use that stupid lunge move on heavy stance, it's leaves the person to open for a counter attack - and it's easily sidestepped) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kissamies Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 Originally posted by Rogue74 Besides fighting two "heavy lamers" is no problem if you have any skill in the game. Anyone that would kick anybody from a server that is not doing things that are major bad is just really petty. I can't win so I'm gonna kick you! -Sigh- Read. Comprehend. Post. He's not complaining how those heavy users are unstoppable godlike juggernauts that must be kicked so he can have any kills at all. He's complaining how those heavy users scare his other (possibly less skilled, but that is not the point) players away and are incredibly boring to fight against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingman Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 What do you do GooglyMoogly, find the weakest weapon and go around dieing because it's fun to die? Of course everyone tries to go to the strongest weapon or style that they think they can kill you with. It's called COMPETITIVE NATURE and most humans have it. Everyone wants to win and no one wants to lose. The noobs that left your server got tired of dieing. They would have left if someone kept killing them with just a stun baton. (Which i think would be more annoying to die from since it's a weak weapon) The only thing you do by kicking people off your server is making very annoyed gamers who had no reason to be booted, the other people are going to leave anyway if they can't kill anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingman Posted May 1, 2002 Share Posted May 1, 2002 How is heavy stance fighting boring? just slower then the other 2 but not boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooglyMoogly Posted May 1, 2002 Author Share Posted May 1, 2002 Originally posted by Swingman OMG, kicking people for figthing the way they want to fight. That is LAME. NOT when that style of play causes other players to leave. Heavy stance is not better then medium or light stance, it's different. Agreed. EXCEPT when heavy can kill *after* the swing and by simply walking into it. plus, if you miss you're open to attack. Cry me a river about heavy stance, it's not overpowerful (and no i don't use that stupid lunge move on heavy stance, it's leaves the person to open for a counter attack - and it's easily sidestepped) you're right...I can easily sidestep it all day, but yet they somehow don't get it that their style isn't working since they aren't hitting me, but continue to use the same move over and over...ad infinitum. Boring How is heavy stance fighting boring? just slower then the other 2 but not boring. See above...lather, rinse, repeat. AGAIN..the point is not that I have a problem with heavy users..the POINT is that its running people off my server. Now, I can just accept this and end up with a lame server, or try to enforce some guidlines so that MORE people can enjoy the game. If you play heavy and want to bout, bring it on. Play smart and this won't affect you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tam Posted May 2, 2002 Share Posted May 2, 2002 googlymoogly is right to a degree i use various styles of combat, i usually change my style in battle bout 20 times so i cant be predicted. but when i'm playing someone who just uses heavy stance...they are too preditable...i find myself bored for the rest of the battle, he swings...i dodge, i uppercut, he gets damaged, he comes again, he swings, i dodge, i slash, i hit. it does so get boring after a while facing people who just use the same tactic over and over again now i wouldnt say these people are lamers or cheap whore. i'de just say they need more time to fool around with other styles. for now, they like heavy, next week they'll like light, soon they'll put all the styles together. i wouldnt really be bothered by it again when i think just this one thought. i could also say they are incredibly new to the game and thing stronger is the way to go. aw well. thats just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demangel Posted May 2, 2002 Share Posted May 2, 2002 GooglyMoogly don't listen to these dorks, they live on the forums to flame people and whine and counterwhine... Surely some toad will flame my post, as some mouth breathing 12 year old troll always does. I just think you have proven your point without lifting a finger as to what kind of losers we have playing JK MP these days... I don't give six savory $h!t's about saberist code or anti saberists code... The rule of thumb is this game like most of these games feature weapons that are by nature cheap and boring after a short period... It's all a matter of opinion... and you know what I find to be the funniest part about all of this? these same people who are bithcing about thier rights to play how they want are stepping all over your rights to say what you want. not to mention the even more obvious right that you have to do anything you please on your own server that YOU pay for and THEY don't. In my mind I don't care about people who might disagree with you, that doesn't bother, me, but the overall attitude on this board is disgusting... No wonder people go to war over stupid **** like religion and what not, if we can't even agree on lame things like this game... GooglyMoogly I would love to know the IP/name of your server, if I have a good ping on it, I would love to play on a server that has an admin who tries to keep cheapness to a minimum... so long as you have a loose set of rules, since it CAN be hard soimetimes to draw the line between spamm/cheapness and valid technique. I only hope you only kick the REAL offenders (like the guy who spams DFA as thier only real move missing endlessly... and boring the hell out of me) I am glad you don't hate heavy style, because I DO use it once in a while, though I suck with it. However I have high respect for anyone who can handle any style with skill. Even more respect for those who know how to switch between them for different purposes ETC. So please send me a message or whatever or list your IP/server name on this thread, I'd love to try it out... -Demangel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zante Posted May 2, 2002 Share Posted May 2, 2002 -Demangel: That was full of n00bism. You complain that winners are cheap? Are you sure you're not complaining about how they know how to play the game they bought in the shop for what it is? Maybe you should go make your own mod for the "skilled player" who always loses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSA_Mitth_ Posted May 2, 2002 Share Posted May 2, 2002 Hey ... the game has been out for more than 1 month now ... and people are complaining about 1 attack ... Just get used to it ... i mean i get the pleasent feeling of getting some real JK2 skilz ... people who are there know what i mean ... the pleasent feeling of geeting real Jedi matches.... there is no heavy spamming in a skilled players duel ... there is a use of 1-strike-kill but the action is so smooth ... close combats are fought with medium or fast .... I dont hear any1 complain there about spamming ... just to all newbies and rookies ... get used to it .. learn it and use it ... eventualy you will chance your tactic and feel the skill-boosting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooglyMoogly Posted May 2, 2002 Author Share Posted May 2, 2002 Demangel - the voice of reason. I've actually gone up against you a few times . My game name is Muerte. Your style is fine. I have very loose rules, but if I have 1 player with 15 and the next closest is 5, I watch him. If he's spamming DFA or using other cheap tactics it's likely he'll get kicked. If he's got skillz AND uses heavy but doesn't spam it, all's well. I always say something first..(which pisses them off, then they become even bigger *******s! ironic no?). This is not to say I always do it...and when I have, most just get right back on. Generally if the tide of the game is turning towards a heavy whore fest I start to take action. Keep it cool and all is well. I'm reluctant to post the ip of the server since it would inevitably become an open invitation for certain people reading this thread to "interfere with". Next time I see you in-game I'll let you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepEyes357 Posted May 2, 2002 Share Posted May 2, 2002 I agree with you, there are heavy whores out there. Actually I guess you can consider me one of them, its like my crack. Just kidding, I used to use it alot but I actually have skill in it...well atleast i think so. But now I know how to use medium also but I only use it agianst one on one, but if there are a bunch of people after me, I switch to heavy (I call it my crowed clearer). I mean people calm down last time I checked this is just a game there isnt people really dieing. This guy just wantes the people on his server to have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingman Posted May 2, 2002 Share Posted May 2, 2002 Demangel, The old trick of put down others and make yourself look good, I think i used to that when i was 6 years old I'm way older then 12 years old and GooglyMoogly said he's gonna kick out heavy stance users that don't have enough smarts to try different moves. That's mature (sarcasm) I didn't say he didn't have a right to an opinion. I was giving my own opinion and that was his reason for booting those people was lame. Of course, it's his server so it's his rules but I can still have an opinion about how lame his choice was. Of course, i agree, there are a lot of crappy lamers out there But coming in and calling everyone else dorks is pretty CHILDISH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingman Posted May 2, 2002 Share Posted May 2, 2002 LoL So the rule is don't get a big lead on Googly's server, otherwise you stand a chance of getting booted. Key word chance since you said you'll watch their actions carefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kincade Posted May 2, 2002 Share Posted May 2, 2002 Originally posted by Swingman Demangel, The old trick of put down others and make yourself look good, I think i used to that when i was 6 years old I'm way older then 12 years old and GooglyMoogly said he's gonna kick out heavy stance users that don't have enough smarts to try different moves. That's mature (sarcasm) I didn't say he didn't have a right to an opinion. I was giving my own opinion and that was his reason for booting those people was lame. Of course, it's his server so it's his rules but I can still have an opinion about how lame his choice was. Of course, i agree, there are a lot of crappy lamers out there But coming in and calling everyone else dorks is pretty CHILDISH i suppose you also think it is lame to boot people who use the model of only kyles arms. or how about the frames that make people look dead. that not a reason to boot people? This is similar to spawn camping in games like DoD for halflife. sure, its not against the rules, but its really lame to do a move over and over again. i can't tell you how many times i've died to a DFA-lamer who flew past me, i dodged and i attack him from the back just to die to the saber with is 180 degrees in the opposite direction, not to mention it just happens to be imbedded in the ground. good for people who can use strong style well, but it is quite annoying to be dodging 5 people who don't swing except to DFA. specially since they can change direction in the air, so if they fly past and i pull them to slash them in the back, they can still hit me. is there any logical reason why the move should be the easiest special to land, do the most damage of specials, as well as a 360 degree hit box. yes, 360 degrees, i've been hit by it when they were faced to the side of me as i ran up to counter attack. same for back, same for front, same for every diagonal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooglyMoogly Posted May 2, 2002 Author Share Posted May 2, 2002 Swingman....you are totally missing the point. If you have a big lead and you got there because you play well then I have no problem with that. I'm not going to kick people just because they are good...I'm going to kick people because they are ruining the game for other players. This includes other forms of misconduct as well. More time than not even if they are being whores I won't kick them unless it becomes a problem for other people. Im glad you like heavy Swingman, and I'm glad you are good with it...but there are MANY MANY players out there who aren't and just use it cuz it's almost a guaranteed kill if you make contact. I think we would ALL agree that there are some questionable issues with the damage zone. Too much of the SAME thing just sucks in my opinion. Anyhow...this is how its gonna be..I'm not Hitler and I'm not out to ruin your play experience...I want to improve it for the masses, not lower the standards so some lamer can get his rocks off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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