qui gons body ... shouldnt it have faded away

[Vesentac]

It was said somewhere that only Yoda knew how to do this, and since he and Obi-Wan were the last Jedi, Yoda taught Obi-Wan. Anikin being the sly chosen one that he is, obviously figured out how to do it.

 

This is incorrect, "fading away to the force" is not a skill. The best argument I've read is that only Jedi Masters who "accept their incoming death" will fade. So this is what you need to do.

 

 

1) Be a Jedi Master.

 

2) Have the "heart of a jedi"

 

3) Accept your death.

 

 

#2 would explain why anakin at the end of ROTJ was able to acheive returning as a "ghost". He still had good left in him.

 

#3 I dont think Qui-Gon was quite "ready" to move on even though he told Obi-wan to train anakin.

 

 

oh and one last thing.

 

I am always right!!

 

 

 

:p :p

[RobKerwin]

tihs is completely off the subject but, STORMTROOPERS SUCK!

[Micozade]

I still think its because liam neeson didnt want to be in the next two movies or they didnt want to pay neesons really big wage packet.Or accepting your death as a jedi could be true but i dont think you have to be a master, Anakin and obi wan were only normal jedis not masters.

[Mobius47]

BFD!!!

 

 

[Fyunch Click]

Actually,

 

Neeson signed on for all three movies as well as the rest of the cast. Except for Jake Lloyd that is.

[Clem]

i still think its a matter of them ignoring the history so they could have a meeting point to set up the next movies

[inSpiRe-]

IM FINALLY A PIT DROID!!!!!!!!

[Soliok]

+++ In order to understand where I plan to go with this thread, please read the entire post through to its end...

 

+++ Perhaps the reason why Qui-Gon Jinn did not 'fade away' at the moment of his death -as other Jedi Masters were to do in the future movies- was due to his affiliation with Count Dooku, who was once a Jedi Master... and Jinn's instructor.

 

+++ Yes, it's true. Dooku, later to be known as Darth Tyranus, instructed Qui-Gon Jinn in the ways of the Force before making Jedi history as one of the 'Lost Twenty' Jedi, who left the order in pursuit of other ventures. One can see the path of rebellion that began (or continued) with Dooku, and was passed on in succession from teacher to student, finding ultimate expression in Anakin Skywalker (with a little help from old man Sidious). It is Anakin who commits the gravest act of defiance to the Jedi Order by first embracing the Dark Side and later hunting down the remaining Jedi Knights to the last man (well, almost). Not exactly the 'balance to the Force' concept the Council was looking for, to be sure. At any rate, it is my belief that this streak of defiance, of rebellion against the Jedi Code, has something to do with Qui-Gon Jinn and his application to the Space Ghost Club being turned down.

 

+++ Through the history of the Jedi Order, each Jedi who ended up swaying from the path of righteousness, or acting in conflict with the Jedi Code did so for selfish reasons, however slight or inconsequential these reasons might have been. To indulge one's selfish motivations is to act in defiance of what is possibly the most important defining aspect of the living Force: unity.

 

+++ When the Force is first explained by Obi-Wan Kenobi, it is described as a unifying energy field 'created by all living things. It's surrounds us, and penetrates us... it binds the galaxy together.' Later, Master Yoda uses much the same phrasing, further illustrating the connected nature of the universe achieved through the Force. The theme of connectivity is expanded upon when Qui-Gon Jinn explains to young Anakin about 'midi-chlorians' (no comment) and their symbiotic nature with life and the Force itself. Power and strength is gained through unity and symbiosis, and this fundamental belief is illustrated to great effect in many aspects of the Star Wars saga, with the concept of the Force serving as a potent metaphor.

 

+++ The saga also attempts to show that the selfish path to power is equally effective, yet isolated, and ultimately ruinous to both oneself and the greater whole. A self-contained entity has none of the advantages gained through a unified group, and this is where we arrive at the 'Space Ghost Club' issue. The Jedi Order has prospered greatly from its dedication to learning the intricate nature of the Force, and how its members can best serve -and thereby benefit from- the way of the Force. It is my belief that the 'Space Ghost Club' is one of the most powerful advantages to serving the greater entity of the living Force, a lasting survival for those who attempt to serve the will of the Force to the best of their abilities.

 

+++ Selfish Force practitioners use the Force for no other advantage save their own, and are not contributing to the survival of the greater entity (remember now, ALL living things are connected to the Force). They exist as a cancer, utilizing resources and power to further their own designs, when left to their own devices will in the end spell doom for the greater entity (Darth Sidious + time - intervention = Galactic Empire). For their counter-productive drives, perhaps the infectious natures of Dark Side users are rightly shunned by the living Force, for they do not contribute to a lasting and stable system. Exceptionally powerful elements of the Dark Side may have found a way to exist beyond mortal death (i.e. Freedon Nadd), existing much like a dormant virus, but that is a debate for another time.

 

+++ This argument does not mean to say that Qui-Gon Jinn was necessarily in league with Dark Side powers. What it does mean to say is that the benefit of the 'Space Ghost Club' is achieved through selfless actions in service of the greater whole. The redemption of Anakin Skywalker was brought about through both a selfless act (saving his son from the business end of some Force lightning) and the destruction of a malignant threat to the well-being of the universal entity.

 

+++ Does this mean that Qui-Gon Jinn was not acting selflessly when he died at the hands of Darth Maul? Yes... possibly. How's this, you say? Qui-Gon was fighting for his life against a superior and more powerful adversary, and while he and Obi-Wan may have been acting at the behest of the Jedi Council -for the greater good of the Republic- Qui-Gon was still in defiance of that Order. Who is to say just what his motivations were for training Anakin? Was he actually attempting to serve the will of the Force, or was he looking for personal redemption? In the end, Qui-Gon Jinn had a predeliction towards defiance to the will of the Jedi Council, who were arguably the most attuned to the will of the Force, divine prophets of an 'ancient religion'. It was this fundamental aspect of defiance that may have prohibited him from transcending into a spiritual form, finding true unity with the living Force.

 

+++ Any questions...?

[XERXES]

can i have some cliff notes on that? lol, im playin...i read it. It seems that because of Maul's agressiveness...Qui-Gon Jinn had to defend himself long enough so that Obi-Wan could get in and rejoin the fight again. Even though he coudnt hold out long enough...that is still a possibility. He just "deviated" a little bit so that they two could get back to the main reason they were fighting Maul (for the Jedi Coucil or whatever reason that was) Possibly Qui-Gon doubted Obi-Wan's abilities...and was not sure if he could take him alone. Just my thoughts...

 

However here is another idea. Everybody remember that card called "noble sacrafice"?? Maybe because Obi-Wan knew he was going to die...he just went on and disappeared or whatever.

 

Or perhaps Qui-Gon's injury did not kill him instantly...but rather it incapasitated(sp?) him...and he could have died a little later, and vanished then.

[Vestril]

Or perhaps Qui-Gon's injury did not kill him instantly...but rather it incapasitated(sp?) him...and he could have died a little later, and vanished then.

 

Good thought, and good thoughts all around, but if Qui-Gon was going to fade I don't think the Jedi would have burned his body.

 

Also, the 'space ghost club' theory (for lack of a better name) is nice, but how does Yoda's death fit in? It isn't a selfless act.

[Darkling19]

i don't know nothing about this, i'm just checking to see if my avatar is working

[Prowl lightstar]

I personally believe that the funeral pyres allow the spirit to be free of the body, and therefore join the force. Vader/Anikin wanted his last act to be "looking upon luke with his own eyes." Therefore he couldn't release himself to "the higher plain". yet the funeral pyre is an artificial way of making the body "disappear." Same with qui gon. His last act was to request that obi wan trains anikin. Therefore he didn't have time to ascend. So they have a funeral pyre to assist in his ascension.

[Murdoch]

I never knew it was that easy to ascend. *starts gathering wood*

 

I think it has something to do with the mastery of the force. Apart from all the previous examples, remember the emperor exploded into that strange lightning wind thing.