Official JK2 1.03 Patch Thread!

[fitzwilliamd]

I read it in here; JRA_Wolf claims it was from his personal e-mail:

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=52046

[[QGA]Vertigo]

Yup.... and if you ask me, it's complete and utter bs....

 

IF there would be a decision like that, the guys from raven would have posted here a long time ago...

[Triprotic-Acid]

Ok, my view on the new patch (i have read the first coupe fo pages but don;t ahev the time to read the rest atm)

 

1)Heal totally nerfed. Totally!! pointless investing points in it now

 

2)Lightning seems to kill far too quickly, im not sure if is because i relyed on heal to compencate, but i just get wiped out in a couple of sconds from it

 

3)random swingers seem to be able to kill easier than those trying to get in timed hits (especially if the timed user is using heavy)

 

I played a duel with a m8, and he wasn't too good before the patch, he just swings all over tha place, now he takes me down very quickly.....

 

ok i guess i should get back to realearning the swings?!?!! thanks.....

 

4)DFA nerfed again, i can't think of any other suggestion though, since it was too powerfull before, but now it seems far too hard to get a clean hit with it.

 

5)Absorb, very good implementation of this, good work!

 

6)Grip? im undecided i havent had enough of a chance to see how it plays, but im told it is alomost a waste now.

 

 

 

these are just a fwe things i have picked up after playing the new patch a few times. it feels like i am playing a totally differnt game. I don't think i will bother re-learning the game, it was a good game, i don;t think so now.

 

 

i will play a bit more and see if i can get to grips (pun intended) with it, but it just seems to have lost all of the good bits.

[TheDarkSide]

well after reading it, I'm think i'm pretty sure it ain't real. If you read Wolf's next post, he says something along the lines of "so all you anti-patch junkies can chew on THAT!"

 

Sounds to me like a fabricated email. Either that or an altered one. There's no indication of what the original question was. I've sent a bunch of emails to ChangKhan and it doesn't look like any thing I've ever gotten in the way of a response from him. I'd advise people to calm down. Raven does care about its community, and Mike would never respond like that.

 

TDS

[UgonDieFoo]

I'm not really sure why people feel that the new saber system took the "skill" out of the multiplay. The general complaint I've been reading about the new saber system is that it’s now "newbie" friendly. It has been argued that the saber fights have been watered down so that the "unskilled" or less skilled have a higher chance of successfully defending against better players. But I ask all of you who agree with the preceding assertions to consider what I am about to say.

 

Despite what some people have been saying, I think that the new saber system is now more demanding on ones skill than ever before in two ways. First of all, since blocking has been increased it is now more difficult to penetrate an enemy’s defense. Would this not entail that it would require a greater amount of skill to bypass your opponent’s defenses and successfully strike them in the first place? Also, if blocking has been increased wouldn't it be less likely that some "newbie" would manage to score a lucky blow on you?

 

The second point that I wish to bring up is the reduced lethality of individual blows in the new saber system. Some people seem to believe that this change somehow gives the “newbies” some kind of advantage. I fail to see how it does. All players now enjoy the benefit of not being able to be killed by a single lucky blow anymore, whether or not they are “newbies.” Therefore, no particular group of people of a certain skill level gain any advantage or disadvantage from this change. Still, some people may think that the reduced lethality fundamentally protects the “newbies” because it allows them to withstand single blows that were so “skillfully” delivered that would’ve killed them in an earlier patch version. And so the claim is that one’s saber skill negated by the reduced lethality. However, this argument lacks good reasoning. Wouldn’t one’s skill be best reflected in their ability to consistently penetrate an opponent’s defense rather then their ability to simply land the first lethal blow? Does the former not sound like it is more demanding on overall skill than the latter?

 

Now I can understand how people may be upset by the fact that lightsaber does not do the proper damage that it should based on the movies and the Star Wars universe. But I think we can all see that this is so simply for the purpose of more enjoyable gameplay. And that is what the latest patch is all about. More enjoyable gameplay with longer lightsaber duels, just like the ones we know and love from the movies. Raven never intended for the lightsaber duels to be the quick and dirty 2-minute affairs that they were before the patch. That is why they changed the saber system. I think the new system does a much better job of mimicking “real” lightsaber fights. This is what people were asking for and now they have it for the most part. And if you don’t like the drawn out duels and the lack of instant kill moves (except the backstab) then maybe JK2 just isn’t for you. But it should be clear now that the new saber system did not remove the skill from duels in any way shape or form. If anything, the opposite is correct.

[Nill the Mean]

I have played a lot with the patch and I love it's depth and detail. The saber battles are indeed a lot more complex and require better timing. But I still think some things should be changed for the sake of balance/playability.

 

I won't be discussing force or guns because I don't think these things have been nerfed badly at all. I still find grip/drain/heal to be very usefull. The alt-fire guns just need more accuracy now... if you run out of ammo, you always still have the force/saber so that should do you good untill you get more ammo, I think.

 

1. Clashing during attack animations should either be delayed or toned down a bit. Right now the sabers clash very frequently during attack animations. Reducing it a bit would allow the battles to speed up a bit which I think would improve playability (fast = fun, ususally).

 

2. Bocking frequency is fine now, you feel a lot safer trying to block incoming hits. In 1.02 I thought blocking was a bit tame... Sometimes hits seemed to just break through for no apparent reason. However, if the radius was turned down to about 30 degrees, then I think there would be a lot more satisfaction in blocking. I tested today to see what radius you could block things in... I found that you can block things attacking 90 degrees to either side of you... a bit overdone. I'm really not pulling your leg here, try it, it works. In addition, on rare occasions, players seem to block things behind them. Thus, toning down the radius would make it more convincing and still far from usesless.

 

3. Up the damage on all attacks apart from backstab. I think people could stand to die a little quicker than they do now. Not that you would, you could play very carefully and not get hit, of course. It would make the fights seem more "lethal" in my opinion. I think it should never take more than 4-6 clean hits to kill someone. With the current blocking system, good players would still beable to survive for a long time, yet they have the potential to end it very quickly. As for backstab, I personally don't think it is such a big problem... however I have seen people do this and I don't think it should be encouraged. Make it less effective than attacking forward, but not by much.

 

4. Less sparking from sabers colliding. More of a personal taste thingie here, but I think the sparks are a little too much. Sometimes I find myself squinting too see through the flashing light. Funny, but not convincing.

 

5. Add the fists in MP. You can get them after screwing around in the console in SP... don't remember how. Someone tell me please... But anyhow, since they are already in SP (sort of) I think we should get them in MP. I mean, why the hell not?

 

6. Sticky Rockets! More of a mod thing... but they were tres cool in JK1... love to see them in JK2.

 

I'm sticking with this game no matter what, I love it and I just hope it is going to keep getting better.

[GE Predator]

"I have played a lot with the patch and I love it's depth and detail."

 

uhh... hehe hehehehehe

 

A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.....

 

*running into someone* slashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslashslash yay killed him!!

 

The End

 

There is no depth or detail. It's turned into a JK style primary fire slug fest. They should just start calling Outcast, JK 1.5.

 

And I'm SO sick of this "1 point damage" crap from poking a saber into someone. With this patch, it's now possible to poke a saber right through someones head, and they only take 1 point damage every interval (whatever the time is between the damage). It's not even remotely real anymore. They shoulda kept the 5 damage points per interval. At least it was a still a lightsaber back then, and not a cheap plastic toy imitation that it is now.

 

When ya duel now, it feels like your beating eachother to death with pool cue's or something.

 

IMO, the whole "saber does less damage at the beginning and end of the swing" is totally unrealistic, in every sense. Like, if sabers were real, I reeeeally don't think it would give a 5h!7 if it's the beginning or end of your swing. You get hit and it's gonna hurt the same either way.

[Raven_Xwing]

Ok, I have heard both good things about the patch and bad things about it. Everyone needs to be civil about it though..to many people mad and cussing each other out.Simply state your opinion without calling each other names

Now how about we hear from someone from Raven on whats been said in here all week. We all know they regularly cruise these forums.

Raven? your response??

[CooLJoE]

My suggestion for the next patch?

 

Undo what they have done to anything saber-related. Then go in and remove the ability to turn using DFA. Also take a little bit of the damage ability off of the heavy stance swings (I've seen some, using the patch, kill me with 1 swing of heavy and I even had 100hp and 50shield).

 

Blocking was fine without the patch and saber damage was fine too. Most people were complaining about heavy stance. And don't tell me to read the forums. I've been playing every night for about 2-3 hours since the game was released. I've seen many complaints and congrats in my time. Pretty much all of them were complaints about the 1-hit kills of heavy stance. Not a thing about yellow or blue stance, and nothing at all about how quick they died from yellow or blue. So changing the damage of sabers didn't fix the complaints, it just made things worse. And now all I see are people wildly swinging their sabers at me with no skill or tactics involved while I try and time the swings and such. And in the end (after several minutes of watching him wildly swing into me) I'm the one who dies. Tell me how that patch did me justice? I was one of the top people when playing and now I get killed my newbies.

 

Newbies shouldn't be made equal with the hard-workers of the game. I was once a newbie, well ok not a newbie. But once I was the weaker of the people on the servers. Then I learned how to play and understood the mechanics of the game. Take notes Raven, thats how the games are SUPPOSE to be. Quake1, 2, and 3 are and always have been that way. And the people who complain in those games (and those complaints didn't happen much) were the lamers who had nothing better to do and chose not to learn how to play the game as it was intended.

 

All you pro-patch people are just newbies that are getting an equal shot and kills without having learned to properly play the game. Ok I shouldn't really say all. Some of you were actually good before and still are, but you are far and few. Most of the pro-patch people were newbies during 1.02. If things don't get better with 1.04 or whatever, I'm going to be tossing the game or I'll just run a 1.02 server and never patch it.

[Nill the Mean]

Raven already said they are not going to revert it so you better get used to the idea of either not having a lot of servers to play on, or having to evolve along with the games developments.

What do you think should be changed and how in respect to the next patch?

 

Nuff said.

[deliboy007]

i think the new patch did make saber battles more fun. i used to be a heavy user (and no not a dfa spammer) but now even with a solid hit with heavy it usually just bounces off their saber. i am now almost a totally fast style user. the upward slash is an excellent move if you can pull it off quickly (minimizing the telltale crouch at the beginning) and overall saber battles are far more action packed. the new patch overall did justice to saber combat. now i can actually attempt to slash a dfa'er when he has landed without the two foot kill zone around a saber stuck in the ground. my force heal was shot, i don't even equp it anymore i go with absorb which i have found is a dandy way to counteract dark siders. all in all once i got used to it, it was a good patch.

[flippo]

this patch isn't evolution. that's like taking a soldier's m-16 and handing him a pistol saying, "pistol fights will make wars more interesting."

[fitzwilliamd]

But I suppose after all that my point is that using the saber PROPERLY under the new patch does take some skill, and there is a learning curve...and as more people mount that curve, the unskilled will be weaned out, and saber combat will become a skill again.

 

Tempest8008,

 

This sounds nice. I hope you are right, I truly do!

 

With that said, however, prima facie, the changes are drastic, unnecessary, and add nothing to game play. It seems as though someone at Raven decided to eviscerate the multiplayer aspect of the game by making it like single player. It is their new ‘vision.’

 

I have tried to enjoy it, but it is soft, with little feel and no feedback during combat. Proficient aiming and well-timed swings do little damage, spam is rewarded. Combinations yield dubious results.

 

The game was highly addictive and fun, why make it like single player? I bought it for multiplayer and personally found the single player aspects unrewarding.

 

Now it is an exercise in frustration and boredom. This patch has changed the game far too much. Many who enjoyed it are now disillusioned and disappointed.

 

The best game play melee combat ever made has just been patched away from me, after I paid to buy the game.

[fitzwilliamd]

Enough constructive criticism! Send in the clowns! Bring in the limericks!

 

Limerick O' the Day! Clap your hands, rhythmically as you read!

 

*CUE MUSIC!*

 

There once was a Jedi name Kyle

 

A powerful jedi was he!

 

Then Raven did hire, in spite of the buyer

 

Gomer Pyle to write patch 1.03

[Perniciosus]

Dear fitzwilliamd,

I've read most of your posts and I bow to your greatness in the art of communication. I have, since the patch came out, been explaining why I dislike the new combat style and it usually takes a paragraph to fully explain. You, however, managed to explain part of my disdain with the new patch eloquently in two mere sentances in one of your previous posts ("Proficient aiming and well-timed swings do little damage, spam is rewarded. Combinations yield dubious results.").

 

I tip my hat to you, sir. Good day.

 

 

----

 

Coincidentially, rather than e-mail, I sent an actual snail mail (*gasp*) to Raven - as I said I'd do - with my thoughts. I thought I'd share, so it may be seen at the following location in rich text format:

http://members.cox.net/darthperniciosus/pernravdoc.rtf

[CriP Skywalker]

I was waiting till I played the patch for a couple of days before I post and all I have to say to Raven is, thank you!

 

I use to be a strong stance hoe before the patch, now I use ALL stances depending on the situation. cg_dismember 100 and g_dismember 3 ownz all!!!! Toning down alt fire ammo and slowing down player speed when gripping someone feels right.

 

I use the darkside and I feel the drain/grip was not to drastically changed.

 

The best thing about the patch is the new single player style of saber combat added to multi player. The combat system is pretty deep for a FPS. JK2 can damn near be the Street Fighter of first person shooters if it keeps up in this direction.

 

Thank you for making JK2 my favorite DM game.

 

The only thing that is stopping this game from being perfect is Models. Need more official Jedi/Dark Jedi/Bounty hunter type models BAD!!!!!! MACE WINDO! AOTC OBI!!! CRIMSON GUARD!!! Vader!!!

 

Once again, thanks for the great work on the patch, Raven. Keep up the great work.

[Nill the Mean]

Sigh...

 

I really liked the patch... but some things are just slowly getting to me now. I have had over a million moments so far when I hit my opponent and thought to my self "BOOYA!" only to be very dissapointed when I die and he tells me he still has 80 health.

I know you have to tme your hit properly... I have never ever gone in swinging randomly.

 

Example:

If some guy would start an overhead swing, I would slash at his midsection whilst his hands were up, this was my favorite move. I find that there are four possible outcomes to this event now:

1. My saber literally goes through him causing no damage at all (happens to me quite often in medium).

2. It bounces back. Even though his hands are above his head.

3. I hit him for about 30 damage.

4. I hit him for a lot of damage. Doesn't happen very often.

 

I use medium most of the time, just like I did pre-patch. But there is another thing I noticed. When I switch to light people die considerably faster than when fightning with medium. Seriously. I fought this one guy for about 5 mins and then I swapped to light and the fight was over in the next 5 seconds.

Similarly, the guy who was owning the duel server I played in yesterday used light like a "headless chicken". Everytime I would try to attack the simple barrage of moves would knock back my sabre and leave me wide open.

I dueled this other guy on that server for at least 10 mins and thought that the match went pretty even. I heard his model scream as much as mine, so I presumed I was doing good. But he still had 70 health left at the end. How? I just didn't understand... I had hit him spot on at least three times with medium.

 

I'm not saying the 1.03 combat is crappy, but I do think there are some things wrong with it in terms of balance and it still feels "buggy".

 

So to sum up what I'm talking about...

Make the saber more effective! I like the new combat system but it has too many things which detract from the fun of it.

[fitzwilliamd]

Before the patch I had this dream about Tavion being my personal masseuse…

 

…of course, following the massage she would cauterize little smiley faces into my behind with her lightsaber, but hey, you take the good with the bad …

 

After the patch my dreams consist of purple toads inserting their young into my back, enclosing them beneath the skin, and writing Jedi Outcast scripts while I wait in horror for them to emerge from my back …

 

Ah the circle of life

[fitzwilliamd]

I dueled this guy for at least 10 mins and thought that the match went pretty even. I heard his model scream as much as mine, so I presumed I was doing good. But he still had 70 health left at the end.

 

Precisely, the feel and feedback are gone. You would have been better served to hold down attack and try to strafe into position (requires little skill, but is effective now).

 

I know you have to tme your hit properly... I have never ever gone in swinging randomly.

 

We have a new a game now :/ It appears this is precisely what you will have to do with 1.03, granted with a bit of strafing and some rudimentary aiming. But spam is King now.

 

Similarly, the guy who was owning the duel server I played in yesterday used light like a "headless chicken".

 

This trend is happening on more than just duel servers. It the past, you could time hits, use strategy to keep him off balance, damage him, force him back. Skill is not a prerequisite now.

 

My saber literally goes through him causing no damage at all (happens to me quite often in medium).

 

This is one reason you cannot compete with the spammy types. How can you employ your techniques, if when they land, nothing happens?

 

This is a very common occurance. Beautifully timed combinations, dead on accuracy is not being rewarded by the game. It is quite frustrating. You can still kill, but it is unsatisfying when you set up a perfect combination, get your opponent right where you want him and the saber slices him like butter doing little to no damage. But who could tell? The feedback is negligible.

 

I'm not saying the 1.03 combat is crappy, but I do think there are some things wrong with it in terms of balance and it still feels "buggy".

 

I agree. I hope the company listens to constructive criticism and renders assistance to clean up this mess.

[EnforcerSG]

I really dont have a problem with the patch. Maybe i am simply a newbe (but i really doubt it...) but the patch is prety good. I love the new dueling levels, and they work fine. Pity me since i am home from college and now have a 400 ping on avrage, but the saber, although maybe it blocks a little too much, is better than hardly ever blocking at all. The timing, just go up against a few bots and get the new timing down fine. I dont get the whole "switching stance" argument. If you hit them hard, switch to yellow from red, then if you hit them again, go to blue, and if they pick up health or shields, change as needed. I mean, unless you patch took out the grunts of pain sounds, or the sparks that fly when they are hit...?

 

The swinging reandomly? Are you guys standing still? If so, do a back jump. Or pull out a weapon if you can, your shots will get through if they are swinging. Or move out of the way, switch to red and take your time. Now if five ppl are "playing fair' trying to saber each other, and one guy comes in swining randomly, and kills four of you, well, in reality, if you were not paying attention, serves you right.

 

There is this one yellow move that i have now done where you jump up and swing your saber around, which is very effective. to someone who does not get out of the way (and it is a good sized swing), it is sure to hurt them allot.

 

Yellow may need to be brought down just a little bit, but it is good now. Blue is close to perfect in my mind, and red could be just a tad stronger. But overall, a good patch. And four new levels to boot. (sorry if they dont work for you, i was really having fun on them).

[fitzwilliamd]

The swinging reandomly? Are you guys standing still? If so, do a back jump.

 

Let me give you an example, since I do not think you are quite clear on what I mean

 

Testing with a player that is usually better than I (Note: in 1.02 the man is an artist with the saber—no cheap moves from him kiddies)

 

First combat: I slipped in under his heavy swing and timed a Forward Lunge perfectly (hit), changed to medium, rolled away from his overhead swing, forward flipped rotating in air, raking a yellow strike against his back (hit); he switched to light and flurried towards me; backing up, I switched to Heavy and Backward+Strafe+Attacked diagonally in his midsection (hit) [this continued for 10 more minutes in a similar fashion] … tired, I asked aggregate shield and health damage? … he responded, 'shields gone I have 97 health… why am I not dead? You were grooving''

 

Second combat

 

He kicked and threw his saber until I died while I taunted due to lack of interest.

 

Third combat

 

Weary, I pulled and Back+Attack (1 Hit- Dead)

 

Fourth combat

 

Still has not happened, we got bored and ran off to play CTF quake 3 …

 

Skill and timing are not being rewarded in this patch

[Boreas]

"Skill and timing are not being rewarded in this patch"

 

That is so true. I have stop playing JK2 til they up the damage from sabers or decrease blocking. How the hell are you ment to kill someone with the flag or *gasp* ysalamiri (spelling)?

 

Answer: You can't unless you trap them in a corner and backslash them. Very Jedi like.

[CriP Skywalker]

Similarly, the guy who was owning the duel server I played in yesterday used light like a "headless chicken".

 

Guys who fight like a chicken with his head cut off will get so owned by me and the gamers I play with.

 

My saber literally goes through him causing no damage at all (happens to me quite often in medium).

 

Maybe the guy you was fighting had full armor and when you sliced threw him it took almost all his armor and did not touch his HP?

 

CriP.

[Darth Sun]

Well, I have been playing JO over and over again since the patch came out.

 

I said before and I will say again, the patch is good and makes saber fighting much more rewarding in duels... note... in DUELS!!!

 

I do admit for FFA its strange, but then again, FFA Saber Only servers are a swing and slash fest with people walking around slashing mindlessly to get kills (this happenned in 1.02 with DFA spammers and now in 1.03 with backstabbers and lightstance spammers)

For CTF, no idea, I dont play CTF for JO, I like CTF for Quake games but just doesnt appeal to me in JO, if I want guns I go play quake or half-life, NOT play JO.

 

After so much dueling with my friends and random people (1 vs 1, 1 vs 2, etc etc etc) I got to these conclusions about each stance:

 

- Light Stance was BETTER in 1.02 since you could NOT spam it all over the place and literally bounce each and every attack out of your way and literally poke your opponent to death with it.

The light backstab is ridiculous, 1 hit kill even with 100/100 (HP and armor) because it hits about 10 times since it holds there, just like when you walk to your opponent and stick the saber into them for damage that is what it does making for a devastating kill no matter how much energy you have (unless you are lucky enough to move out of the way in time)

 

- Medium Stance is much better this way since now the saber can be controlled much better just like in single player.

I do admit the damage of it could be upped a bit since a little bit more damage to it wouldnt harm anyone and keep the "movie feel" of dueling.

Backstab is a little less deadly then the light stance version if you are standing but if you are on the ground... ouch is all I can say...

 

- Heavy Stance is better this way, DFA fixed so now you actually require skill to use it propperly (YEY!!!) and no more one hit kills if your opponent was out of shields because he just finished a duel and only has 100 HP.

The ability to actually combo up to 3 slashes (just like in Single Player and the extra of adding a 4th slash if you combo the DFA into it correctly) was a great addition to compensate for its reduction of damage compared with 1.02, but still, a tiny bit more of damage to compensate for a possible increase in damage in Medium to keep things more interesting would be in order.

Backstab... well... you die from a well placed heavy backstab may you be on the ground or standing.

 

So, to sum it up:

 

- Light stance back to its 1.02 speed since it currently is too fast, no one spins like that, not even in the movies.

 

- Increase damage slightly in Medium Stance.

 

- Compensate damage increased in Medium with maybe a slight increase in Heavy Stance as well.

 

- Maybe reduce the blocking rate somewhat to keep everyone happy, Im SO tired of hearing people complain they cant hit and bla bla bla.

 

- Instead of reducing the blocking rate, reduce the blocking radius like someone mentioned in this board.

This way, attacking someone from the sides and from behind would be actually more useful and a person would need to keep a look on from side attacks instead of just standing there not worrying much from whatever direction the attacks would come from.

 

- dont touch the force, this way there are no more drain whores and no more heal whores and so on, people actually FIGHT now since their old tactics no longer work (that well anyway).

 

- a small addition... make the ability to actually be able to block an incoming saber throw causing the saber throw to be knocked out of the thrower control forcing him to pull it because it just got knocked to the ground (like in single player, because otherwise there is no disadvantage of using saber throw at a distance and not let the other person aproach, just keep poking them from afar and repeat till its dead)

 

These are my two cents.

 

Darth Sun

Ichimoto Factory

[Nill the Mean]

- a small addition... make the ability to actually be able to block an incoming saber throw causing the saber throw to be knocked out of the thrower control forcing him to pull it because it just got knocked to the ground (like in single player, because otherwise there is no disadvantage of using saber throw at a distance and not let the other person aproach, just keep poking them from afar and repeat till its dead)

Great idea! It isn't hard to get your saber back in SP if you drop it. It also makes you think twice about throwing it. It would still be far from useless, as you could still employ the "poking" technique but you would have to be a lot more carefull. It shouldn't happen everytime though, maybe they could program it so that if you attack just after you block it that you knock it away.