fitzwilliamd Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 They have destroyed one of the most amazing games I had ever played with this new 'patch.' It is hardly a patch, it is a new game: a game that I would never have invested time into. Six of us have worked to assess the damage--an even spread of heavy and medium users. I will post our findings soon before signing off. Suffice it to say that the changes, ultimately, have taken a game that required skill, strategy, and timing and metamorphosed it into a spongy spammy, slap fight. I can strafe up to skilled heavy users and slash medium combos in their face with impunity: players that in the recent past I had to be at the top of my game to compete with. But I digress... the sad truth will become apparent as the new saber dynamic is tested by the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankyhoe Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 its just a game, if you dont like what its become, then dont play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leelink Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 How could anyone determine wether or not the patch sucks yet. It took my weeks to learn the my skills before the patch, what makes one think they can learn the new skills within a day. Many people with think the new patch sucks at first because people automatically reject change and will not be able to kill opponents as easily anymore. I for one do not have good or bad comments about the patch as it will probably take weeks again to relearn the saber combat under the new patch. The game hasnt been out that long and I am sure we may see a few more patches. but I personally greet each patch with pleasure as I am sure it is fixing something that was broke to begin with. (even though it may break other things, At least thier trying) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempest8008 Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Originally posted by fitzwilliamd .... I can strafe up to skilled heavy users and slash medium combos in their face with impunity: players that in the recent past I had to be at the top of my game to compete with. .... Maybe they should switch stances then... Using one stance exclusively is, to paraphrase the famous Bard, "Stupid as a one armed haystacker with an itchy nose". (we may not be thinking of the same Bard) Possibly, as well, all of the scripts that your buddies were using to spam DFA all over the place aren't working anymore. Let's all just take some time, play with the patch, and move on from there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsagiYojimbo Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Yeah it's only been a few days since the patch came out and today is the first day I've actually downloaded it. But, my first impressions are: - It's too early to tell if the patch sucks or not. We'll find out in a few weeks. - Most of the servers I normally played on, have not upgraded. Sigh. - I wish there was a way to tell what version a server is running via the multiplayer server browser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzwilliamd Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 its just a game, if you dont like what its become, then dont play it. Hit your page up key and read the post: the appellation I apply unswervingly to this software is 'game,' without deviation. A mind is a terrible thing to waste . Possibly, as well, all of the scripts that your buddies were using to spam DFA all over the place aren't working anymore. Alas, no script kiddies among my 'buddies'; and no dfa spammers either. I wish there was a way to tell what version a server is running via the multiplayer server browser. Yes, that is no fun: Qtracker is one possible work around, as it will display the version of the server in a sortable column. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raheem01 Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 - I wish there was a way to tell what version a server is running via the multiplayer server browser. Click sever info mate, tells u what version it is there it think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzwilliamd Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 Click sever info mate, tells u what version it is there it think [/b] Yes, he could do that, but it would not be very practical as there are numerous servers. There are some new icons that indicate patched servers using the in-game browser, etc. But I still like Qtrackers' column format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzwilliamd Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 I would just like to add: May those responsible for this patch get a screaming case of pink eye, a plethora of pesky papercuts, and ‘some kind of rash from using the bathroom in the bushes.’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Sheesh. Fitzwilliam, calm down, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsagiYojimbo Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 Ok, here are more of my first impressions: - You can tell if a server does support the patch if there is an icon next to it. - Less people are doing the DFA but.....BUT....but it has been replaced by the yellow stance backstab ( the one that basically swings your saber 360 degrees ). People are starting to spam it. I'm predicting we'll here people complain about it; Mostly people who play FFA. In duels, it should be easy enough to dodge. - Doing the force pull/kick combo is much more harder since you need to tap jump twice to kick. - Invisible model is gone. Duh. Says so in the readme. Also gone, is the ghost morgan model and headless kyle. I actually kinda wished they kept those two since they were cool. Especially the headless Kyle. I like people telling me I've lost my head - Saber duels seem to be more fun now. It takes multiple hits which for saber purists is a good thing. - The fake death animation when you change saber colors is gone. Oh well. No big loss. It was mostly for show. - Force health is definitely toned down but it's balanced by the fact that there is no more one hit kills. This is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laii Ka Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 I feel that the only people that bitch about the new changes are those that only knows the DFA and uses it as thier ONLY attack to get easy fast kills. Many time, erhm, make that ALL the time Ive been trying to find players that like that fact that you can "Duel" adn like the way the sabers work. But I always become victime to players that jumps around useing strong 1 hit kill stance. Whats the use to have 3 stances with many combo possibilitys when its useless cuz all use the DFA. Try exploring the "Fencing", not the executioning. I for 1 Like the new changes where the saber strike dont hit its damage peak untill it has moved a certain % of its move. That way you wont get killed by a simple SaberTip touch like many uses aswell. Crouching, then walks around with the tip of the Saber at proper angle to touch the opponent where his saber cant counter it. SO, good riddens to all that whine and bitch about the new changes just because they cant get easy kills adn actually have tu FIGHT for a change. Face me now if you dare!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzwilliamd Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 I feel that the only people that bitch about the new changes are those that only knows the DFA and uses it as thier ONLY attack to get easy fast kills. I use medium as indicated in my post and a follow up discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messy_Dwarf Posted May 7, 2002 Share Posted May 7, 2002 The new patch has made the saber about as effective as a flashlight in ALL stances. No chance against heavy weapons whatsoever, but the blocking seems to actually work for all blaster types now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzwilliamd Posted May 7, 2002 Author Share Posted May 7, 2002 The new patch has made the saber about as effective as a flashlight. I would argue that the flashlight is more dangerous as you stand a chance of temporarily blinding your opponent (I know this first hand, I have a younger sister). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash25 Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 Originally posted by fitzwilliamd I can strafe up to skilled heavy users and slash medium combos in their face with impunity: players that in the recent past I had to be at the top of my game to compete with. Maybe these players weren't as good as you thought they were. From what I've seen, the blue and yellow stances are more viable options than they were. You lament the loss of strategy and skill without really explaining how. The most you offer is the statement that some red stance users can't handle a yellow stance user. The red stance could have been accurately called a crutch. Now that crutch has, to an extent, been taken away, the game is destroyed? It seems to me that you got used to playing a one dimensional game of get out of the red guy's way and try to hit him before he can run. I could be wrong, but that was pretty much how you had to fight a red stance user. There is no indication in the readme that the red stances damage has been lessened, other than at the beginning and end of a swing, but this goes for all stances. The only real change is that the DFA can't be spammed as well as before. Sure it seems that the blue and yellow stances are a bit faster, but blocking seems to be better. A skilled red user will still be successful with his chosen style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorax Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 It's not broken...skill is not just a suggestion anymore to winning matches, it is a requirement...I call that a fix The red and yellow combos are just awesome, and look really cool when you pull them off. Yellow spin swing is much more powerful then it was, but also harder to do: back, attack+delay .25 seconds, then left or right. Red ones are double and tripple attacks that are done by rotating around the direction keys. back, attack+delay .25, right, back, left Is just brutal..check that one out - Vorax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Scum#26 Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 I think the patch has balanced the saber combat out. Where before it was obvious that the strong/heavy stance was the most effective, now the medium is much more useful in melee. I still refuse to use light/quick stance unless defending against beam weapons though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakeeyesa27 Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 thanks raven, now everyone is going to use this crap patch. i immediately uninstalled it. it somehow managed to turn great fun into a lesson in frustration. how can someone block my medium attack IMMEDIATELY after they miss a heavy swing? and where are my medium spins? good riddance to bad garbage. i'm boycotting the patch. it doesn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracofyre Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 snakeeyesa27 how can someone block my medium attack IMMEDIATELY after they miss a heavy swing? I do believe that the point of Heavy stance is that the swings are powerful, but are slow and leave you open to counterattack. So quit your bitching. We don't want to hear it. So heavy is harder to spam. So what, that's the whole damn point of the patch. To make people realize that no stance is perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jow Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 Suffice it to say that the changes, ultimately, have taken a game that required skill, strategy, and timing and metamorphosed it into a spongy spammy, slap fight. All I hafta say is that you and I have obviously been playing completely different games pre-patch, because up until now it's been a mighty spamfest in my opinion. Skill? Not quite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaeris Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 I tend to think that if you truly have skill, you should be able to handle any patch that Raven throws your way (and I'm sure this won't be the last patch). If you can't, well you were just fooling yourself about having skill. Do you think NBA players bitch and moan when they play in the Olympics and have to play by international basketball rules? Nope, they play by whatever rules are given to them and still dominate. Why? Because they have mad skillz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkDroid Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 This is insane, people are shouting every which-way, fitzwilliamd feels the need to come to his own defense after every post. Most entertaining collections of posts and counter-posts I've read in recent memory. But here are the issues as I see it: The spamming that we currently dislike seem to be reduced, this is good. However some moves require new key combos, oh well. The possibility of new spamming may become reality, that's bad, but it's difficult to predict these things. The issue with saber styles I forsee being the topic of many debates for quite some time, patch or no patch. As long as the saber styles remain anything other than identical in speed, damage, and combos, people will complain, and it's likely they'd complain in the event that they were to be made identical. Of course doing that would negate the whole idea of styles. It sounds to me like alot of people who complain about red style are not profficient at it, while those who use the red style are now angry because they have gotten used to the dodge-and-attack game and will now have to be a little more aggressive to land their hits on the target and make them count. I admit at first I disliked red style, but then I tried it. Don't deny the fact that it requires better timing than the other styles. And don't pretend it can't be countered. If necessary switch to red style yourself to take out another red style player. Diversity is good. As far as futre spam issues, we'll have to wait and see... Where will this patch take us? Well, I don't know, but I can guarantee it will be a wild ride taking us to new and exciting gaming heights not yet experienced by the gaming community - even if the ride takes us back to where we started. Love the thrill of the fight. DarkDroid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leelink Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 Originally posted by snakeeyesa27 thanks raven, now everyone is going to use this crap patch. i immediately uninstalled it. it somehow managed to turn great fun into a lesson in frustration. how can someone block my medium attack IMMEDIATELY after they miss a heavy swing? and where are my medium spins? good riddance to bad garbage. i'm boycotting the patch. it doesn't exist. The thing here is that you let them complete thier swing. have you noticed that with a heavy swing there is about a second you can counter before the swing is complete. if you swing at them just as they start thier swing you will hit them. I actually glad you uninstalled it, because this means one less unskilled person I have to play against in FFA. Please Dont reinstall your patch that you spent a few hours with and then wined. I was one of the best players before this patch and I can tell you that I have adjusted my playing to watch for more counters then were available earlier before the patch. So sucky von sucky just keep complaining and in a month when everyone is singing the priases you can just be learning how to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blujay Posted May 8, 2002 Share Posted May 8, 2002 Originally posted by UsagiYojimbo - Saber duels seem to be more fun now. It takes multiple hits which for saber purists is a good thing. Is it really? Think about it. It's sort of like a game of chess. In chess, if you are playing a skilled opponent, one mistake may cost you the game. In JO 1.02, it was similar. One mistake by you, letting your opponent hit you, could cost you the duel. You'd be so injured that it wouldn't take much to finish you off (talking NF here). In JO 1.03, it takes so many hits to kill anyone, that you may make lots of mistakes, and your opponent may capitalize on them and hit you, but you can still live after many, many hits. The result is that skill is rarely rewarded. You can score many hits against someone, but they do so little damage, that you often get no kill in return. This is especially true in FFA saber games, where you may hit someone over and over, only to have them retreat, jump into a large ball of sabers and get killed by someone else. In conclusion: While the DFA move is no longer too powerful, and Light-Style is no longer too weak, the sabers overall are too weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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