Details About Some Patch Changes

[jah'kel]

I think people should try imagining this:

 

You just bought Jedi outcast your installing it for the first time and you notice that:

 

-you need clean and precise strikes for maxium damage with saber

- if you run and just swing randomly without tactic hoping the inflict damage, you risk having your attack parried leaving you vulnerable.

-you have 3 distinct stances: one for fast strikes and swirling, one for precise strikes and medium damage and one for slow but heavy damage.

-blocking is somewhat easy, so you dont have to play "hit and run" (which really was Dark forces 2 JK's style of play).

 

But then you install a patch and notice the following changes:

 

-the way you learned to fight in single player is different in multiplayer

-you find that the light and medium stance are boths for swirling

but with medium having the range and damage advantage.

- the DFA cause the attacker to be dangerous to approch, is easier to do and now kills instantly, so alot of people rely only on that attack.

-Now, anyone can swing randomly with a good chance of strinking you at maximum damage, even with a slash that seemed like a grasing.

-blocking is not as easy to do especially against "headless chickens"

-lightsaber deals more damage (granted ending a fight quickly in 2 or 3 skillfull strikes is fun too)

 

I can only talk about the saber issues but what im trying to say is that if the game had come in version 1.03 and the patch released changed to game to 1.02 all of you people would be complaining about the changes.( If you take a moment to think about it, you know its true).

 

Its understandable that everybody has gotten used to playing version 1.02 but if you weigh the differences, the patch is not that bad.

 

Beside, from what I understand lenghty battle seem to be the major problem, either that what Raven wanted us to experience originally when they made to game if not, this might be change in the next patch. Anyway, im pretty sure mods will be released with damage modifications eventually.

 

So instead why dont everybody pratice more with the updated version to improve their skills and if you really want the game to be different, maybe should start getting interested in game editing.

 

just my 2 cents

[TheDarkSide]

Great first post, jah'kel.

 

I never thought of it from that perspective, but you're right. If version 1.03 is what we started with and got used to, and then got patched to v1.02.....man oh man, ain't nobody that would be happy.

 

TDS

[Calmbr]

Awsome game, Raven. But I have a unique problem (or at least I think I do). In SP, I have a problem saving. I reinstalled JKII with nothing in it, and saving worked perfectly. But when I put my old config files and saves back, it went back to saving wrongly. the wierd thing is that it saves the files, but they don't show up in the menu. I had some mods installed, but they NEVER gave me trouble before. Please help me!

On a side note, awsome patch, I love the new duel levels. I don't see what people's beef is with the saber system. Oh, I'd like some new CTF levels. Thanks in advance!

[NyghtWalker]

jah'kel, actually I'd be fairly happy if it was 1.0.3-1.0.2

Alot more skill was involved in 1.0.2 than currently instead of mindless spinning around. If anyone took the time to do some checking (and I have) the only people for the patch are the people who stick to <a> duels or <b> saber only games. I have yet to see a single saber+guns or gun user speak a good word about the patch.

 

Also further investigation shows that those who speak the loudest (not all, but a good portion) are the exact same ones that cried and cried and cried "DFA sucks, I get killed everytime" "grip sucks, he threw me off the catwalk" "heal sucks cause it takes longer to kill him now" These were the people who whinned and complained instead of actually learning any of the abundant counters for these situations. If it were just a matter of learning new counters I'd still be playing on my CTF servers instead of wasting my time here but since my CTF servers I frequent are now "ghost towns" (complete with rolling tumbleweed) there's not a whole lot left for me to do in regards to jk2. Anyhow I'am off to work, I'll check back this evening.

[Xanthos]

After reading all these posts (like reading a chapter book here hehe ) I just want to say you are all entitled to your opinion and I agree with some and don't agree with some. But what I'm trying to get to here is, what else are you gonna play?

 

I came across a lot of people that complain and whine constantly over and over because they don't have the skills to change their combat styles due to the patch. Therefore they think the game is "ruined" "trash" "stupid", because their cheap DFA 24/7 doesn't work anymore. Cry cry boo hoo who cares. If you don't like it, too bad! Not much you can do can you? What else are you gonna play? Jedi Knight I? I guess so, but have fun playing on the only server that has a max of 4 people. There is NO other Star Wars game like this that offers the intense feel of jedi and jedi's in combat. Also there is no other game that offers all the different features like force powers and saber locking and throwing your saber. So maybe you could find some half life mod or something, but then all you would be doing is swinging the same way all the time.

 

So if you people that think the patch is "stupid" and "the patch screwed up everything I'm quitting". Go right ahead, I'll see you later in 4 days when you realise there really isn't any other games like this. If you are a true fan, you'd stay with the game. If your not, then well you'd probably go play your Counter Strike (lol) and maybe come back in the next patch. It's either you deal with the game now (i think the new patch is spectacular myself) and just give it a CHANCE. And no, I don't mean chance like 3 hours and then "this is stupid im quitting", give it about a week and you might find yourself liking it more then before. Or you can quit and wait for Star Wars galaxies in 7 months and twiddle your thumbs, or sit around and wait for the next patch.

 

That's just my opinion on things. But the keyword here. What else are ya gonna play?

[Kypt]

Gun + Saber guy here . I do not dislike the patch, yet there are many things I do not like. I think ammo thing is arlight ONLY if they place more amo on CTF bases. The blocking on lightsabers is kind of ridiculous. If you don't attack on a one to one duel u never get hit. No matter the type of slash. Be it strong, weak, or medium, the guy will block it. Until they attack and are vulnerable u can hit. I really have a problem w/ that. I hit a guy up to the point of 12 hp and he just starts moving around and not attacking. Making ME loose time and by the time I finally kill him, someone has already passed me for about 20 points.

 

The back move is being spammed a lot more since it is an easy one shot kill (yes, even more than old DFA). I am guilty of this, y? Its a lot faster. People complain "can't u fight like a man?". I fight, I kill, then I go back to backward slash. More efficient, but I can understand frustration. It is CHEAP if applied correctly. If you know how to do it perfectly the ONLY counters that MIGHT help (depending on shield) are rage and protect. You don't have those forces, be ready to see ur head flying off (BTW, they did fix dismemberment )

 

Edit: The things I do not like about the patch have nothing to do w/ the altering of my playing style (for those iditos that think all who complain are ALL about that). W/ or w/o the patch I haven't found many peeps that I can actually duke it out w/ and be about even. Not being cocky, just I haven't met many of u in a server. Thing is, when it takes u more than 2 minutes killing a guy w/ a saber...u have a problem. Also, when it takes u one hit and 10 seconds to kill them (backward slash) that sux too. I want you guys that have been saying "stop the whining!" to duel me. I'll show u what the patch has done, and then I want u to not whine.

[Jellybelly]

Originally posted by Nill the Mean

But as I said before to you, which you probably didn't read...

 

With so many serverside options you would have to look for ages to get the type of game you want. Everytime you log onto a server it might be very different. There are not enough servers to support that much more game-types. I find it hard to find the type of game I want now already, sometimes.

Sorry Nill. You're right...I didn't read Your previous post.

 

Ok...valid point. However, ask Yourself these questions:

 

1. As it is now, many people don't like any type of game the current setup allows for in the first place. Would they not rather spend some more time looking for something they might like...instead of it not even existing in the first place? Once You find the servers You like, just add them to Your favorites.

 

2. Don't You think server browsing filter functions will be updated as the new switches arrive? "The All-Seeing-Eye" for example has made a pretty good job in including filters for JKO so far. Nothing suggests that this should not be the case in the future as well.

 

3. Maybe there will be many servers leaving the game more or less in "default" mode, making only minor changes? The most serious debate in this issue seems so far to have come from certain groups of people (FFA matchplayers, saber purists etc).

They will probably have some generally prefered gamestyle, which will most likely make most of the "saber purists" servers pretty similar in setup...same goes for the serious FFA matchplayers, and so on.

 

4. Isn't compromise always a factor? Many most likely will never find "exactly" the kind of server they want with game tweaked patches anyway, as the gameplay of the static patches does not agree with everyone. However, with serverside gameplay options, You might have to look a bit longer, but on the other hand the chances of finding a server more true to Your personal preferences are dramatically increased. In fact, even not finding exactly the server You want would in that case still leave You the option to setup Your "perfect" server Yourself.

 

Cheers

 

Jellybelly

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Solo4114

I've posted this elsewhere, but I'll post it here too. Although from now on, in patches where people are complaining, I'll just refer them to this post.

 

First off, thanks Raven. You've earned a loyal customer in me. You paid attention to what the fans wanted, and gave it to 'em. You balanced the game, and made it more fun (for me at least).

 

I like the patch so far. I haven't played as a darkside jedi yet, but as a lightside jedi, it's quite well balanced, I think.

 

wrong. Play Dark. You'll see what i mean.

 

A lot of people don't like the patch though. I'm going to go through and explain why I feel that the patch has helped gameplay, at least for a guy like me who prefers to use the sabre.

 

1.) Nerfing of Drain and Heal

...Maybe they nerfed drain too much...

 

Correct.

 

...

 

I'm not going to bother with the rest. I'll save it for the new *ASC* site, which is going back up soon. It suffices to say that you're off-base on some of your points. On others, you're 180-degrees opposite of the truth. I have numbers to back up my point of view. You either do not have such or are keeping them to yourself. Either way, watch for the posting of my new guide--I will state and prove my points.

[Sith_Incarnite]

I for one an glad that the patch is here and I'm in favor of all the changes that it has made. When I first downloaded and used it I was furious because it had altered medium stance and the flip-kick. I actually uninstalled JK2 and then gutted the old directory with the intention of re-installing JK2 and leaving the patch off. I am a member of a clan and the other guys encouraged me to give it a chance so I re-applied the patch and we had a good two hour practice session using the new patch and I have to admit...that once I did give it a chance...I have grown to love it.

 

Now for the Guns vs. Sabers feud!! I use an even mix of guns and saber. I don't mind the changes to the guns because now all of the NO SKILL gun spammers will have no choice but to either grow some skill and a better aim or they will just have to take their moaning, groaning, griping ass somewhere else....like to a Q3 or an Unreal Tournement server for some "no skill needed" gun spamming. Now you actually have to have good aim and know how to conserve ammo (something I'm quite familiar with since I was in the Marin Corps for seven years).

 

People that say that Grip has been nerfed are smoking their own ****weed! Sure ...you can run while gripping them but you can still grip and throw then wherever you please.

 

CTF Nerfed now? I think not. My team did about two hours of solid CTF practice last night and the guns..(in the right hands) were quite effective!

 

One last thing before I close. I was a hardcore Q3, Unreal Tournament player who loves guns & as much ammo as you can carry. I also played JK1 since the day IT came out and I hated sabers in that game. Guns were the only good part of that game....and maybe a couple of the force powers.

 

I say that this patch is going to separate the people with skills from the no-skill spammers. Hint, 90 % of the people that hate the patch are the "no-skill spammers".

[henrychan415]

THE PATCH IS HORRIBLE, IT MADE THE GAME LESS FUN YOU STUPID B1TCHES. I CANT BELIEVE SOME OF YOU ACTUALLY LIKE IT

[Aoshi]

I think that a factor that you saberists are overlooking is a very vital (and funny) one. You do know that you can push the secondary fire from repeater/flechette and rockets back at the person who shot them right? I've been playing with saber many a time to have someone shoot a rocket at me. What did i do? I pushed the rocket back at them and killed them. You can do the same thing with the flechette easily. The repeater is a bit trickier but i've still killed people with their own repeater fire. the point of this? everything has its balance if you are good enough. if you are not then please stop whining and go play DiabloII where everyone hacks/steals/cheats/backstabs/whines/complains. You will find it more to your liking cause you will have many people like you surrounding you all the time.

[dol-Egon]

I don't get all this complaining.

 

True, the ones that whined the loudest before were the ones that obviously do not know how to play the game (all you DFA whiners--pre-patch, the move was EASILY counteracted and usualy with a kill in your favor). And true, they nerfed the weapons and saber stances.

 

But they did it for a reason... to make even MORE balanced than it already was (no small feat).

 

As for the heavy stance... it was nerfed, but I still use it almost exclusively (except in tight spaces). My kill ratio hasn't changed and I'm still usually in the top 3 or 4 players on a server. I like the "new" DFA move for it's realism (you can't turn after you've landed it--hoping to have someone run into your saber). I use it the same way I did before (as a finishing move) with the same results (and yes, it is still easy to counter this move for a skilled player).

 

Heal and drain... all I have to say is "THANK YOU RAVEN". Heal was way too cheap before, making saber fights last FOREVER (unless you drained the crap out of them). And drain-spammers will now think twice about using up all their mana just to take you down a few points.

 

Guns.. well, this game is called JEDI KNIGHT II, not Quake 3 Arena, so I won't even bother. I rarely use guns in the game because it takes away from the fun of being a saber-wielding-Jedi-maniac. If I wanted guns, I'd go play Q3A. Besides, a saber in the hands of a skilled player still kicks most gunners' asses.

 

My one, minor annoyance about the patch is Force lightening. I could be wrong, but it feels as if it was beefed up, causing more damage.

 

But beyond that, I am very pleased with the patch. AND THIS COMES FROM A SABER PLAYER and DARKSIDER.

[Kypt]

Until Quake 3 Arena has forces enabled, you can't tell peeps to go play it for guns. The fun thing for gunners in JK2 is mainly the fact that there IS force. Specially in CTF. Quake 3 doesn't have the rich competitive style that JO has cuz it lacks force. Not need to get in detail, but think before u write...

[NewBJedi]

They simply need to do this (besides un-nerfing drain and grip):

 

Saber attacks - same as new patch.

 

Saber blocks - much more toned down - more like the non-patched game.

 

That is if they want a decent compromise.

 

There's a difference between balancing by removing abilities vs. adding better stuff for the other side.

 

It's like giants fighting midgets but you cut off the giants legs.

 

Don't punish the giants for being giants - give the midgets jetpacks.

[Vanor]

I agree partly with you Newb...

 

Originally posted by NewBJedi

They simply need to do this (besides un-nerfing drain and grip):

No drain did need to be tweaked, perhaps not to the point it is now, but it did need to be tweaked. Grip I can't really comment on. But if all they did is make you walk when having someone gripped, I don't see this as a problem.

 

Saber attacks - same as new patch.

 

Saber blocks - much more toned down - more like the non-patched game.

 

That is if they want a decent compromise.

I dissagree somewhat, a decent compromise, would be toning down blocking, by say 50% of what it is now. But making it like it was before the patch is not a compromise. Many people complained prior to the patch that MP sabers weren't like SP sabers, Raven made it more like SP, but I could be happy with them toning down blocking a bit.

[Nill the Mean]

To JellyBelly:

 

Good pointers...

It would be nice I suppose, but I still think it wouldn't work in theory. The remaining factor I'm concerned about is what if the servers you normally always connect to start using options you don't like? If the jolt.co.uk servers started using certain things I didn't like then I would be deprived of say, 5 servers already. The list of places where I get a good ping doesn't stretch forever AND I have ADSL... That is why I think it would be better for one general game, which is very good. Makes everything a lot simpler. And for that we just need to give the right pointers to Raven for the next patch. Then we wait.

[IronJedi Kaga]

Originally posted by WD_ToRMeNt

The NF CTF/TDM ladders were pretty inactive before, but I'd say 1.03 finished them off. Trying to defend a flag with a saber, 4 shots of ammo, and no force doesn't make for enjoyable gameplay.

 

Drain did need a tweek, but not that bad. Rage and I tested it the other night under 1.03. It cost him his entire mana pool to take me down to like 1/3 of my mana. So, basicaly, using that power does more damage to him then me. WTF...

 

Grip didn't need to be fixed, no one complained about running and gripping. It was weak enough in 1.02.

 

Heal is barely worth using. Maybe it needed a slight adjustment, but I don't even use it anymore.

 

The ammo situation makes competative CTF and TDM pointless. The gameplay just isn't there.

 

It's amazing, competative JK1 lasted for over 4 years with no patches. JK2 competative gaming ended after a month.

 

Sab battles are longer because of blocking, that makes saberist even easier targets for gunners. The complains will not stop because they nerfed the guns. They pretty much nerfed everything with this patch.

 

It's like Raven is trying to remove that skill facter so no one has to actually learn the game. I dont know if they realize this, but MP JK2 won't last long if they don't fix this.

 

UT2k3 is due to have a MP demo out at the end of this month. It'll be intresting to see how many JK2 servers are converted to UT2 servers. If raven doesn't release the tools to make mods, or fix the nerfing in a 1.04 patch, I think the WD JK2 server will become UT2.

 

Normally I dont say this, but if your playing nf guns with ctf and tdm, then what's the point of having bought jk2 in the first place?

 

The primary point of drain is the healing it does, not the force it drains from another player. If your going to judge it, judge it on those standards. Drain needed to be nerfed becasue it was not only replenishing health, but leaving the other player completely without force. In addition it had incredible range, and still does in 1.03

 

Grip I agree needed no tweaks.

 

Heal changes make sense, heal only required a small sacrafice of force in 1.02 and even then all a person ahd to do was run and tap the heal button and instant full health.

 

I agree with the ammo changes completey. The repeater and golan still do the same damage, just have to be an accurate shot and or conserve ammo for when its needed. It will be harder for defenders who relied on nothing but those guns in ctf. But for TDM there is no excuse to complain. There are other weapons outside the repeater and golan. If you cant kill somone without using a repeater or golan in secondary mode then you need to practice with the other weapons. The bowcaster, rl, thermals, mines, st rifle, saber, and even the bryar pistol are all effective if you know how to use them.

 

*edit:* Finally the guns were not nerfed. ONLY the repeater and golan were changed. You say that Raven wants to make it so people dont actually learn the game, but what needs to happen is that you and other people who complain that "guns" were nerfed in the patch need to learn to use the other weapons besides the hr and golan.

[devNiGHThaWk]

When the game came out, i used to complain how there were not enough ammo, but playing it i got used to it, now that the patch came out it completly runs you out of ammo.

 

People say how spamming was stoped, and how you have to be really precise now. First off, none of the guns in jk2 are accurate in exception of the sniper rifle. You need to spam to kill, because anyone with half brain can dodge slow moving golan balls and pull your gun so you no longer have one.

 

I am sorry to say this raven, but you are ruining the game for every one. You listened to people who only play sabers and made the patch thinking that that is all the jk players. All the gunners and ctf players do not even come to this board, because we had nothing to complain about. Now obviously we do, cause you are ruining the game we once loved to play. I ask you to go look at the http://www.teamwarfare.com and see what your patch has done. It made the whole ladder chaos and you pissed of 64 CTF clans. Who are now joining the freshly made 1.02 ladders. I hope you can do something to make the gunners happy because we are wery unhappy right now.

 

Thank you for your time

[JaG-SpoonMaN]

JaG was started back in feb 1998 by some friends playing Jk1 and we kept on playing JK1 till just a few months ago

i myself started playing Jk1 the very day it came out

now we find ourselves i na very bad spot

when Jk2 hit the stores we all got it

we played it and after we got used to it we loved playing CTF

now i was a nf gunner in Jk1 and didnt really ever play CTF much in it but i loved it in Jk2

but now that we have to use 25 ammo per shot it takes away from the game as a whole

till the day the patch came out i was on the TWL's nf saber ladder and was doing great on it

but i have now droped it and as a clan JaG will be leaving JK2 very soon if at least the ammo problem is not fixed

either by raising the ammo limit or by puting it back to 8 ammo per shot

we can make our own CTF levels so thats ok but this does need fixed and fixed NOW

btw any of u so called "elite" nf gayberists wanna fight me find me on IRC in etg #jag

[IronJedi Kaga]

Originally posted by Lucky

Spider, what about rage?

 

I stick to rage/speed almost exclusively because its the closest I can get to JK's gameplay. You could fire 8 shots point blank at me and not kill me.

 

Half the time i shoot 8 shots at my feet just plowing thru defense. My rate of fire is faster, my movement is faster, AND i do more damage. All I have to do is take a lil more time to find ammo and then I can plow my way thru an entire team, no matter how good they are, they don't have enough ammo to kill me.

 

If there were 2 of us, if we were using energize like us competitive types tend to do with rage/speed, it'd be even harder to stop us. The damage increase is less than the damage decrease, so telling people to try the same thing doesn't work.

 

It didn't even work in 1.02, i had to chase a friend of mine out of my base in bespin on a pub we were whoring, and between the 2 of us we ended up killing my entire team twice using the same exact tactics. People were getting flung around like pinballs on spawn.

 

The guns didn't need to be nerfed, they got nerfed because the sabers got nerfed, and that lil nerfing spilled into CTF.

 

What should have been done, was to make the saber a nice lil stunted BFG for all of the people who refuse to use anything else. Mebe a one hit kill against gunners. Leave the changes to the saber combat system in place, but make it more useful against ranged weapons.

 

As it is, its now impossible to a) kill a gunner with a saber in time to do any good, and b) defend yer flag consistently because the guns got nerfed.

 

What people were calling for was that the saber be made MORE effective, now its LESS effective but more cinematic. Personally, I like the changes in general made to the saber, however its entirely useless now, and so are my guns.

 

CTF is now an exercise in sitting around staring at eachother wondering why we're not playing a different game. We play CTF to compete as a group against other folks, but when our means of competition gets nerfed out from under us, we're a lil dumbfounded.

 

Raven needs to up the effectiveness of everything in the game. If that means you can get by doing one thing for a long time, then so be it. So long as you can do one of MANY things, thats not a problem. Eventually people will develop the skill needed to do more than one of those depending on the situation and the game will require more skill to succeed at.

 

One more note, saying that the ammo constraints even remotely affect saberists is a lil fraudlent. Obviously, we can all agree that the nerfs were meant to balance the 2; guns vs sabers. However, because the saber got nerfed so heavily in terms of damage, people cluster together even tighter now, and make it even easier to get huge group kills with any explosive weapon.

 

There's less ammo, but it translates into more kills in a DM situation against saberists. So essentially its even easier to run around smashing poor helpless folks who want to play sabers.

 

So the nerfed guns didn't do much other than mildly stem the tide of huge sickeningly genocidal group kills. And im seriously tired of indulging in them, thats why I started playing CTF. DM was just a matter of smashing the every loving crap out of anybody who was sabering, or chasing the one other guy on the server who was using a gun around until I got bored.

 

The saber was at least mildly useful before the patch in a ctf match, its still not TOTALLY useless, but its much harder to use in a situation where a very slight mistake can have you respawning.

 

What needs to be done to balance the guns vrs the sabers, is make the sabers more deadly against guns.

 

It's like tic tac toe, a saber should translate into a very quick and elegant kill against someone not holding one, and that should be that. It should of course require you to get close enough to get a swing in, but nothing more. (this would also draw people into dueling situations more often, rather than risk getting smacked to death by some beligerant JKii.net forum goer) =P

 

The saber would then be on par with the rest of the weapons. The guns in general SHOULD do at LEAST the minimum amount needed to keep someone away from your flag.

 

Thats really all we're asking, all of us who have posted are not in the slightest going to offer the notion that we wouldn't appreciate another useful tool like the saber in our tool bags. The problem is that most of our other tools are ineffective now.

 

There'v been other complaints that people have mentioned, but those are very minor things to tweak. Adjust the damage on the saber slightly to keep duels moving along faster, nixing everything in the saber combat that is an obvious repetitive exploit.

 

The biggest issue for us, those of us that consider ourselves competitive CTF'rs, is how they attempted to balance the sabers with the guns.

 

Again, if the saber were to be made into a weapon that could actually kill us without requireing somekind of ingenious talent or a sheer stroke of luck, we'd all love it and use it.

 

As it is, it has no advantage over a ranged weapon other than defense against anything thats not explosive. Personally, the solution I see is to make it VERY deadly against guns, and return the guns to their previous abilities if not actually making them slightly MORE effective.

 

That would allow us to use both, much to our delight and the delight of anyone who enjoys a lightstick over a boom cannon.

Personally, I use one over the other simply out of necessity.

 

This is just a suggestion, feel free to point out the errors in my logic.

 

 

 

Lucky

 

There are several thing to do that can stop your rage/speed and fire away. If you just run by firing at your feet constantly you are pull bait. A smart defender would simply get you in his/her sites and pull your gun away from you. No more heavy weapon spam at the feet. Even easier is if your doing that near ledges. Just push you off. Harder to do now, but also applies is to grip you and toss you around, preferably after pulling your weapon away.

 

Another flaw in your logic is that you say you take the time to find ammo. There's nothing keeping the defense from doing the same.

As for the 8 shots point blank, well thats the whole point of dark rage. If there's cappers using dark rage have some defenders shoot while other concntrate on keeping the cappers away from the flag. Force fields will stop anyone for a short period of time. Sentries can help add additional damage.

 

And as I've said before, they didnt nerf the guns. They only nerfed the golan and the repeater. The saber is better now, it wasn't nerfed. Raven just required the skill level required to use it. Time your swing and place them correctly and you will get the damage done in 1.02 (with the exception of heavy stance, but now it has combos so it balances out).

 

On the golan and the repeater, the secondary shots were nerfed to balance them with the other high damage large radius weapons. Notice that you only get 3 rockets, 4 dets, 3 det packs. All of them are high damage and large radius. The secondary hr and golan fire are now in line with the other high damage large radius weapons.

 

As for saber vs golan/repeater balance, it has been evened out. Golan/repeater uses get less shots but still do the same damage. For saberists, more chances to defend with push or by dodging, but in turn that have to get really accurate and timed hits. There's the balance.

 

As for your dm comments, saberists who stand in a group will always get hammered.The responsibility of good saber fighting falls around the player. You should know that if your in a Dm with guns that you have to be on alert for a gun user if yur fighting another saber player (the exception is being a duel). It's an issue of awareness, if you let yourself get sucked into a duel and forget that someone could turn the corner and mow you down with thermal , repeater, rocket etc, then its your own fault. It's not a game balance issue when that happens.

 

Finally as for CTF, there are OTHER guns besides the golan and repeater. If CTF is so unbalanced then why did no one complain before the patch? The answer is because the defenders relied soley on spamming the golan and repeater secondary. Otherwise the changes to those weapons wouldn't be causing so much of an uproar or issues about the balance of CTF would have been pointed out before the patch.

[L3onheart]

FISTS????? WTF?????

 

I'll eat my hat when the day I see Obi-Wan using his fists. WTF are you whiners talking about?? YOU WANT FISTS??? IN THE SW UNIVERSE???? GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ!!!

 

What's next???? Kung-fu Kyle???

[IronJedi Kaga]

Originally posted by devNiGHThaWk

When the game came out, i used to complain how there were not enough ammo, but playing it i got used to it, now that the patch came out it completly runs you out of ammo.

 

People say how spamming was stoped, and how you have to be really precise now. First off, none of the guns in jk2 are accurate in exception of the sniper rifle. You need to spam to kill, because anyone with half brain can dodge slow moving golan balls and pull your gun so you no longer have one.

 

I am sorry to say this raven, but you are ruining the game for every one. You listened to people who only play sabers and made the patch thinking that that is all the jk players. All the gunners and ctf players do not even come to this board, because we had nothing to complain about. Now obviously we do, cause you are ruining the game we once loved to play. I ask you to go look at the http://www.teamwarfare.com and see what your patch has done. It made the whole ladder chaos and you pissed of 64 CTF clans. Who are now joining the freshly made 1.02 ladders. I hope you can do something to make the gunners happy because we are wery unhappy right now.

 

Thank you for your time

 

Sorry but the repeater secondary fire and golan secondary fire can be used with precision. People can dodge but thats the whole issue of aim and thought. If they are constanly trying to dodge try to predict where and fire ahead. With the golan you can even afford to miss becasue there's a chance they will run into the mines when they are on the ground. The repeater secondary fired fast enough so that you can hit with accuracy. Players need to increase their skills so they can do those things. And just to cclear things up I'm not some aiming god, becasue I can't do the abve perfectly all the time, but thats where practice and increasing one's skill level comes in.

 

As for the rest of your post, you need to stop working with generalities. The patch did not ruin everything for everyone, did not piss off everyone, and did not piss off every team on the TWL. You can speak for yourself and people you know for a fact agree with you (given that they dont mind you doing so), anything else is just exaggeration.

[D'akt Sangwar]

OMG OMG OMG

i dont care aobut anyones moaning anymore

i love the patch and i love it even more after playing on the jedi v merc server

:D:D:D:D

it was FUN FUN FUUUUUUUUUUUN

[Lord Briss]

Hi ChangKhan[RAVEN] and all

 

 

Raven - thanks for a great game. It tops any FPS I've ever played. BUT I'd like to say: please continue to take notice of the fair-sized minority on these forums who think that you've changed some elements of the game for the worse in this patch; just because lots of people are happy now doesnt necessarily mean that the game has improved - it just means that you've catered more for the most common player-type in the game.

 

As a result IMO the MP gameplay has become more repetitive, less varied and definitely more to do with running headlong into a crowd spinning your blue/yellow stance saber around.

 

Let me briefly explain:

In the original version the styles had more between them: blue being very fast but least damaging, red being heavy, slow but powerful and far-reaching, with yellow being nicely placed in the middle.

But now there's less space between them: blue and yellow are almost the same tactically speaking and in terms of speed and strength, and red is no longer a radically different style as it used to be - it's the weakest style to adopt by a long way; leading to servers full of blue and yellow style only.

 

In terms of gameplay the end result is blandness of style. There are plenty of people on these forums who will whinge about red-only saberists etc, but the great thing about the original game was this:

- if you were a blue saberist and you came up against a yellow then you would have to adjust your style - get up close but pick your time to strike carefully and back off

- if you were a yellow or a blue against a red then (despite the whines of anti-red people on these forums) there were ways to adjust your strategy to counter their attacks as well.

 

What the lastest patch has done is cater for the lowest common denominator: the fast attack - theres no need for people to adjust their strategies because the gap has closed between the styles to the point where everyone is running around spinning their sabers quickly - it's prevalent because it's a winning stance, like the much maligned red stance noobie attacks used to be.

 

I'm not saying the red stance didnt need tweaking - it did, but you've made saber style choice almost irrelevant and reduced the game to an auto-blocking spin-fest.

 

Please please please make the next patch so that the gap between each stance (in terms of strength and speed) are wider, so that should force players to have to adopt new strategies when they come across different opponents - rather than stick to the one they know best all the time.

 

In the interests of making JKII less bland

Lord Briss

[Solo4114]

Originally posted by ArtifeX

 

wrong. Play Dark. You'll see what i mean.

 

...

 

Correct.

 

...

 

I'm not going to bother with the rest. I'll save it for the new *ASC* site, which is going back up soon. It suffices to say that you're off-base on some of your points. On others, you're 180-degrees opposite of the truth. I have numbers to back up my point of view. You either do not have such or are keeping them to yourself. Either way, watch for the posting of my new guide--I will state and prove my points.

 

Ok, just a few quick thoughts and responses.

 

1.) You're entitled to your opinion. I'm not getting down on you about that.

 

2.) I don't know what the ASC site is. Could you explain that?

 

3.) This is perhaps the most important part of my response. First, much of what I posted was my opinion. As such, I don't NEED to prove it, and you CAN'T prove otherwise. It's an opinion, not empirical evidence. I can't really be "off-base" on my own opinions, nor can I be 180 degrees opposite of the truth of my opinions; that wouldn't make any sense.

 

4.) You say you have figures and statistics and such. First off, I'm not even sure what about my original post you feel you need to bring this up for. Unless you're talking about damage figures or force consumption which, you're right, I haven't bothered to calculate, mostly because I'm working based on a relative feel of the game. The sabres are a bit weaker now in terms of the damge they deal out, but I don't really care that much. I still enjoy the game. I don't really know what else you'd need statistics for to offer as counter-proof to my mostly opinion-based post, but go for it if you've got some magical piece of evidence that will totally destroy my opinions. One bit of advice, though: cite your source for your statistics. If you say, "80% of all gamers in JK2 are gunners. 77% of those gunners hate the patch. Etc.," I'll respond by saying "Did you know that 46.89% of all statistics are made up?" Provide proof for arguments, whatever they may be, and cite a reliable source or provide folks with a reliable means to test and replicate your own results. Just some friendly advice re: persuasion.