geronimo27 Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Originally posted by JRA_Wolf You want the saber fighting in JK2 to play like the original trilogy? So....an old man (obi wan) standing there while vader kills him...and an untrained kid who swings his saber around like a madman and get's his hand cut off, then goes into a fit of rage and starts hitting on vader like he's mugging him with a baseball bat? Fun times.... In your attempt at wit and sarcasm you missed the point completely. And by the sounds of it you didn't quite grasp the movies either. At no point, even as an untrained kid, did he swing his saber around like a madman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EekTheKat Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 You want the saber fighting in JK2 to play like the original trilogy? So....an old man (obi wan) standing there while vader kills him...and an untrained kid who swings his saber around like a madman and get's his hand cut off, then goes into a fit of rage and starts hitting on vader like he's mugging him with a baseball bat? Fun times.... No that's not what he was talking about when he mentioned the original trilogy : The Sir Alec Guiness Obi Wan vs. Vader saber battle is more along the lines of traditional Japanese swordplay.... It's highly methodical, and very few movements were wasted in the way they fought. As for the battle between Luke and Vader, you said it yourself that Luke was infact untrained...and Vader took his hand on their first battle. In an odd way, with MP dismemberment on with the current MP sabers, I've seen the occasional random swinger/spazzer get the very same treatment from skilled players who saw that opening + took it. As fror their rematch in ROTJ, to me it seemed like Vader threw the second fight unintentionally (I guess it was supposed to look like Luke overpowered him leading to Luke chopping Vader's hand off, but on film it looked to me like Vader just all of a sudden went from blocking to leaning against the rail by himself). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desslock Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 I think the violin crew plays their instruments so much they can't hear any of the logical posts in the board. [/sarcasm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EX4R KUN Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 I agree, the patch sucks. The Lightsaber is now officially the equivalent of an overgrown chopstick. I am bummed out, but oh well. I will just take my game back and trade it in for something else like dungeon siege. I will re-purchase JK2 if Raven someday manage's to put skill back in the game with yet another patch. Before the patch we had Saber Only NF servers which allowed many of us this luxury, but with the Lightsaber the way it is now, even these servers blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geronimo27 Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 mIRC, btw I meant to throw this in an earlier post. The name of my server is "Seattle Saber CTF 1.02". I even added a couple of new maps to try out, but I am keeping it at the old v1.02. Stop on by and say hello Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzwilliamd Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 CENSORED! I edited out a harangue against the 1.03 nightmare which included a barrage of profanity and some highly inappropriate 'heat seeking' Latin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
failsaf3 Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 To avoid people who whines about how people 'whine', let's just say that UNPATCHED VERSION OF JK2 RULES! Amen! 65 liked : 33 disliked so far on the poll... which poll are you looking at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnags Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 wow, this patch really doesnt change all that much. you should play cs and then you can see some patches that REALLY change gameplay everytime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desler Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 I've finally given myself enough time to test out this patch. The good news for me is I can still own in it without much trouble - going server to serverl without a loss. The bad news is, I hate it. Game balancing should come from small precision changes, not large thrown in your face changes that force you to change your entire style. Incremental changes would have been very much appreciated, instead, we get the style of the game changed around tremendously, and are forced to adapt. I think this is where most people have the problem. Adapting is fine - but some people enjoy playing a game a certain way, now they are forced to play another one or else revert to the earlier version which will eventually be invalidated for competitive gameplay. I do like the fact that heal and drain can now be used with a lot of consequence - the consumption of a gallon of force power. I still think however that drain whoring is still alive and well. The problem with drain is, it takes 4 force power to use, and it will stop once you reach the minimum amount of force power needed to start it. Meaning, once I get down to 3 force power, it stops automatically. Instead, it should stop when it gets down to null, and only be able to start up again when you get 4 force power. THAT will eliminate the spamming. If I had a choice between drain or heal, I'd still take drain any day. Heal is fine - however, the amount of force needed to heal is horrendous, and I feel for light side users. Instead, how about a scale like drain, make heal a continuous power instead of a one shot power, healing like 3 points per force point, until the user runs out of force, only able to heal again when they have 4 bars. The decreased damage (I think) from Kick is fine - however, I think the game would benefit from being able to have both styles - one jump or two. Two jumps is nice because you can kick in midair, but one jump rocked because it didn't make your hand hurt after hitting the jump button so much from kicking someone who insists on repeatingly charging at you. Something I would -love- to see is kicking different areas having different effects. Kicking in the legs wouldn't do much. Kicking in the head would send your opponent down for a bit. While kicking in the back would knock em flat on their face. Backwards moves are nifty - and making them hard to block is ok - BUT, the damage must be reduced. Again, incremental. Don't -kill- the damage, just make it like 3/4ths what it is. At the very least, give people with full health pools a chance to survive the attack. I personally have had little difficulty predicting and countering these moves, but your average player just doesn't have DFA is still extremely useful. One of my old style techniques, while not -as- effective, still works well. The damage seems to all be there - but it isn't totally unblockable as it was before, which is why people think the damage just isn't there. It works well against some players, and others you shouldn't try it against unless you want a mouth full of saber. Good change here, no complaints or suggestions. Lightning finally isn't totally useless with the heal and drain changes - and despite what many think, I don't think it's overpowered either. I have never used lightning at all in my career because I think force powers should be used as tools to aid your sabering, not as tools to damage your opponent. Lightning is fairly easy to dodge if you are quick, you'll likely get scorched a bit, but that is inevitable. Overall, sabering style itself is what I dislike. It's more luck then timing now. However, I try to stay away from constantly clashing saber fight swing fests and concentrate on timed aimed blows. Quality, not quantity. This has always been my strategy, and every good person I have played against will always go for the timed blows as opposed to the swing like a madman style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nattydred Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 I love it The title of this thread asks for people who dont like the patch to post here, but the poll is still very close. That indicates that as many peope like it as dont,or maybe more. Its the same story in every game. One persons "playstyle" can also be an "exploit". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GileS__l7l Posted May 9, 2002 Author Share Posted May 9, 2002 The poll doesn't lie... The majority of the votes say that Lucasarts/Raven need to take this patch back, man. I could list things about the patch, many many cons, but the most weighty one is that IT ISN'T THE SAME GAME AND DEFNITELY NOT FUN ANYMORE. Sheesh, why do companies do this? Spend more time testing it, you wankers, instead of getting the public hooked on a game and then TOTALLY altering everything about it! Did you guys talk to Blizzard before you did this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GileS__l7l Posted May 9, 2002 Author Share Posted May 9, 2002 Originally posted by The_Mormegil The saber combat is so ****e now, all the whining gay playersl are happy with this patch but I want them all to burn in hell for being stupid. I really, really, really £ucking hate this patch. im not gonna use it because its just not fun ffs, this patch doesnt even deserve any intelligient comments & I can't control the anger i feel for the patched version. PATCHED VERSION = GOOD FOR WOMEN AND FAGGOTS LMFAO Man, I couldn't say it better myself. Mormegil, I will be running pure unpatched games on the MSN IGZ. Look me up, my username is the same Here's to the ANTI-PATCH MOVEMENT!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaberPro Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Originally posted by GileS__l7l The poll doesn't lie... I demand a recount! Go Gore 2000! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fear Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 There are things the patch does good.... the bug fixxes, chat icon, new levels,(even though I don't play duel levels) and a few others. But what they did to the force powers and sabre battles just watered down the entire online game play. Before you had to react to someone or you could get killed fast.... not now. The sabre battles are too long and its not how good your are but how many times you can hit him to kill him now. And they might as well take all the darkside powers and thrown them out after how they stripped the punch out of them. Take Grip, its useless unless you have someone that does not use force. You walk so slow now when using the power anyone can just push there way out of it and half the time send you on the floor. Also they boost a power that was more than powerful already in absorb. Oh ya, they make healing cost more but who cares there are health packs all over and bacta. So the light side gets very strong and the dark side gets left with lightning.(which I hardly use unless they run from me) So I am left with force pull and push on the darkside. Well I am unpatching after this and if they don't fix this in another patch I will play it till I can't find players, then shelf it. But I will remember when it comes time to buy another game from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAgent Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Why is it that everybody who hates the new patch has to be babbling crybabies? Why am I even reading this thread? Here's a big clue for you all: If you don't like the new patch then STFU and PLAY THE UNPATCHED VERSION !!!! OMFG how simple is that? DA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAgent Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Originally posted by GileS__l7l The poll doesn't lie... The majority of the votes say that Lucasarts/Raven need to take this patch back, man. [sarcasm] Ya, your absolutely right man. They should take the patch off right now [/sarcasm off] You don't think the whole title of this thread has anything to do with the results do you? Title = "All who hate the patch, post here" I'd say that this poll was just a litttttttle bit biased. Check out the OFFICIAL poll results in this forum for the UN-BIASED results. (Currently 87 Like and 35 Dislike) Have a nice day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaded030 Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 First off, I will say that Raven's efforts to appease fans should be recognized and appreciated even by those who dislike the patch. Regardless of what was changed, it is clear that most, if not all of it, was due to the requests of players. So, big kudos to Raven for putting forth the effort to improve the game based upon player requests. However, my personal opinion is that "the vision" of Star Wars and the reality of multiplayer online play (particularly Saber-fighting) have become confused and distorted. The problem I have is that, though the new changes to multiplayer (inclusion of the single player saber fighting system) serve to make saber fights look more "realistic" and more like the movies, actual gameplay shows a distinct lack of depth and strategy when compared to the former style. What they did was essentially trade gameplay for "the vision", and anyone who's played EverQuest can attest to the fact that sometimes you have to sacrifice "the vision" to create a fun game. There are some great aspects of the new patch: -DFA changes -- good changes, though I think simply altering the clipping problems and disabling turning while performing the move would have sufficed. As it is now, DFA is still a viable move in the right situation -- the way it was intended to be. -Light stance changes -- Big big plus. Though the light stance in the previous style was not as useless as many believed (Backstab and the lunge/upward slash have always been excellent moves), the new changes are definitley welcome. -Absorb -- This change single-handedly shifted the balance of power from Dark to Dark/Light. IMO the forces are now more balanced than ever. There are also some bad ones: -Blocking -- The parry system is good, everything else sucks. Constantly applied combos are basically the only way to mount a frontal attack. The "headless chicken" style of play just became the ONLY way to play the game -- players now will be classified as "players spamming combos" and "players spamming regular moves because they don't know any combos." -Heavy stance -- The reduction in speed was unwarranted. The only change this stance needed (besides DFA tweaking) was a slight reduction in damage dealt. As it stands the stance is far too cumbersome to be used realistically in saber combat. With all these changes, the game is still playable. The problem is, JKII MP before revolved around timing and strategy -- knowing when to risk a DFA (unless your opponent was a moron), knowing when to risk a pull/kick, and generally being able to handle yourself with a saber in regards to general defense and offense. Being a successful saberist in all situations required a mastery of all stances, forces. Now, being a successful saberist involves memorizing combos and repeatedly executing them, hoping a few slashes manage to get through the ridiculous blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desler Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 A nice evaluation Jaded, although the best combos still lie not in saber combos, but in force/saber combinations. When your opponent swings like crazy, he'll often leave open a blind spot that can be hit even in heavy stance (with the forward-left quick swing). Same goes for those who jump around wildly trying to kick people, same move, just a little more aim. As I said in my post earlier - if LucasArts or Raven did this process a bit slower and more incrementally (making smaller minute changes instead of game changing changes), they could have weighed the reaction accordingly. The true veterans however have no problems playing in this patch, though knowing most of their styles, I can say that they are probably having a lot less fun, because like myself, they prioritize precision, accuracy, and finess over spamming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGF_Derfla Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Pretty simple really. You bought the game. You decided to get elite. You did what everyone does you found the little tweaks in the game like the one hit in the toe death red stance move. You practiced it hard to perfect it. You owned. Then one day poof it's gone. You have to hunt for new things to practice. Your not sure you want to do that all over again. So you complain - don't upgrade - only play on the old servers where you own. I never really liked the saber the way it was. I didn't ask Raven to change it - I just play games with forces and guns. Yeah they increased the ammo usage of my two fav guns because you could kill the saber guys easy enough. I'll just adjust... So if you are truly good. If you can really play MP games - you'll adjust. If you just practiced to get kills on little things the programers missed then your outta luck. Thr RGF has a CTF ver 1.03 server up 206.206.105.181. Come play if you like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kDaWgG__l7l Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 OK this is one dumbass patch that could have done better not being made at all and that person shouldnt have wasted time like that. The spamming was a problem I would guess but why create something this stupid designed MAINLY to stop this but, yet screw so many more of the aspects of the game up? This just goes to show you how game maker just wanna screw you out of your money and make more by having bugs in it so you have to patch it and click their banners and blah blah blah. They really do need to take this GHeYBie®™ patch back for the good of the people, I mean why play the game if it sux.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xombie Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Just an FYI: Developers don't listen to simple whining. They don't bother reading it. They aren't masochists. Try using constructive criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chastan Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 i hate all of you haters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARKUSPRIME Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 I own on 1.02 and 1.03. Regardless of what people defend 1.03 it is a noob friendly patch and lets the people with no skill live longer and do the lame ass auto blocking. Yes the patch sucks the force tweaks are good except lightning which is to powerful now and yellow is fubar. And no im not a noob or a former DFA whore i still own with the llama 1.03 system it just sucks now and is boring as hell. The truth hurts, you know it to be true hehehe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-=VIB=- Wang Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Originally posted by SaberPro Sounds like you're a racist, no? Ummm.... neither Russia nor whiners is a race, dumbass. Russia=country Whiners=pathetic dumbasses on the jk2 board who are crying b/c they can't DFA all over the damn place Sounds like you're a moron, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trannyn Covnant Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Ive read enough about the new patch and i refuse to download it seeing as how from what ive read it completely screws up saber combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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