Patch destroying JK2

[Benderen]

Ok, I'm really not the kind whining about every patch released for a game. But it is a fact that many games are destroyed by major changes in the game. A good example is Counter-Strike. The latest 1.4 patch is hated by most people. In Quake3 many stupid changes were made, and later they restored the old settings.

 

I don't play with guns in JK2, sp I don't know much of their changes. But it is a fact that without the sabres JK2 is like a bad UT or Quake. Nothing new about it.

So... I do 1on1 duel (it rocks), preferably with no forces. Draining and healing is weakened.. good. Jedis were too healing from the first patch.

But the f***ed up things are:

1st. Too much blocking with the sabres. When I run towards an opponent, heavy stance, i can burn him to death if I just make sure I do not attack myself. Why? Cause I BLOCK EVERY SINGLE ATTACK HE MAKES! Horrible.

2nd. The red finish jump has been weakened, but way too much. Not only is it VERY hard to do, but it has also become nearly useless. The sabre cannot be moved around after hitting the ground, so when you do the jump, you cannot look anywhere, resulting in a 2 second stunning on the ground, as a good target for your opponent behind.

3rd. I think the damage of sabre moves are much lower. And what is the point in that? A sabre should be better then the gun, and weakening them makes the 1on1 duels less realistic.

 

Well this is my opinion. I'm pretty angry with this patch. I hope something will change with the sabres soon, cause as far as I have experienced, duels have become pretty crappy.

So give me some opinions, I don't know if I should stop playing this or watever. The game has been so fun, and I had become really good with the old sabre. Now peeps have to play the game like JK3 or something .

 

Thanks.

Benderen.

[Ubergamer]

Well, before the patch, there was a very visible line between skilled players and newbies. It actually took skill to use the different lightsaber attacks effectively. Those people that just click 50 billion times and run around were dispatched just as easily as those that just used Force Powers.

 

Now, with the patch, every attack is blocked it seems. JKII is now a retarded click-fest. Good job on ruining the MP game ...

 

Oh and as far as making JKII MP more like SP ... wtf? Guess what, all those block flashes cause lag. JKII is now choppy whereas it was smooth before the patch.

 

... are these "patches" even tested? Perhaps you should get quality testers that aren't lemmings.

[Beefshank]

So far, I don't have a problem with the patch. The things you say are true, but still I haven't had a problem getting hits off people. The fights do take much longer, but so what. That's why I'm playing to game, one long fight is just as good (maybe better) than 3 short ones.

And as for the strong style finishing move, I think the change is great! I'm sure you did use it as a "finishing move" but a LOT of people used it as there only move. Using it SHOULD leave you wide open to attack during the recovery time, and it SHOULD be hard to do, and it SHOULDN'T be aimable in mid air.

It seems to be, so far the people that are complaining about the patch are the people that relied on strong style and mostly that one move. The styles are more balanced now, which is exactly the way the game was intended to be. There shouldn't have been a "Best" style, just different styles. Raven is trying to correct this.

People are also saying how it's not fair because they have to "learn to fight all over again". SO WHAT? It was fun the first time, and it will be fun this time. Although I don't think it's totally true, and suspect those poeple need to learn all over because there fighting revovled around the strong style finisher.

It's just like a tv show, if you don't like it, don't watch. If you don't like it, don't play.

 

And if you can't adapt, then you obviously weren't as good as you thought.

 

By the way, this is not intended to be an attack on the author or this thread, it's just my overall opinion.

[Benderen]

Don't worry, I don't take offense of it. I can fully understand your points. However, the game has changed into something more boring. If you join a 1on1 server now, you will wait for ages. And you will be annoyed by the next thing I discovered they had done, including sabre throw into the 1on1 NO FORCE!

This is quite lame, the whole thing about no force is to keep body contact, not running around using distant attacks. I played some 1on1 a minute ago, testing this. I could run around and kill people with my throws, not having to be close to anyone. Blocks are not working once they slash their sabre after you, and then you can just move gently backwards, throwing the sabre.

 

With all forces involved, this is fine. Then you can heal the points you lost. However, the body contact consept is gone now. I'm not saying I'm so superior, but I am really not used to loosing against someone first asking me how they configure the controls. My game against this guy was me running after him, but being blocked all the time, as he didn't move his sword. When he figured out how to throw, I was put down in a few minutes (I didn't use throw myself this time).

 

Anyway, I know I can get used to the new patch, and I can start rocking some people. BUT there will be a lot more lamers destroying the gameplay now. The chickens draining you from energy and gripping were never joining the no force servers. Now that drain is weakened, all they have to do to stay out of body contact is to run around using this throw move.

 

I wonder if things will be a LITTLE more as they were. I bet something will return to the previous state. Some day. Untill then, JK2 lost the special touch in my opinion...

[ToKe]

the changes i like in this patch outweigh what i dislike, so i'm for it. in 1.02 it seemed the attacks were a bit random, example: right + attack, i could get 2 totally different swings out of this movement in 1.02, now in 1.03 it is consistently the same swing.

 

the thing i think that could be improved is the blocking, i didn't really have a problem with the blocking of 1.02 other than the same randomness that the offense had. now it seems that if you are not attacking you can basically block anything in front of you. while that may be more like a "jedi" it doesn't really add up to fun or engaging gameplay. a more skilled block method seems in order, like you must have a certain percentage of your crosshair on their saber to block an incoming blow. to me, auto-block is like auto-aim, why even play if you don't have control over every aspect of your character?

 

as far as guns go, i had no problems with them in 1.02 so i'm fine with switching them back. i personally had no problems keeping up with gun players (i've yet to pick up a gun in MP). i generally play saber only, but if i get an urge to play a guns match, well i understand the possibility exists that i may get shot...for people that don't get it, try the all seeing eye, it has filters for saber only servers. i would suggest if you don't like getting shot to try playing sabers only.

[TUnified]

In my opinion, the patch rocks. No longer do you have to rely on blind contact, just swinging your sabre wildly hoping for a hit. Strategy is more important now more than ever in JKII.

 

I like fencing, and have done some basic studies of my own. JKII is now much like fencing. Attack - Defend - Advance - Counter - Retreat. Its great! If only people would take the time to understand how it works, I think maybe a lot of people would stop harrassing the patch.

 

Im glad they made the dfa move much harder and riskier to do. That move alone made the game really cheasy, cause everyone did it. No skill was involved, just point and shoot.

 

people are also complaining that every move is blocked. This is true if you attack head on. Maybe if you move around a bit and attack more exposed areas, then you'll get more hits. Also, you'll get more hits if you counter attack. Its all about strategy.

 

I also noticed that you can block the heavy stance with the medium stance, this may be not realistic, but I also noticed that if the Medium stance guy was weakened in strength (< 50 health) he could not block the heavy. This is pretty realistic.

 

Unfortunately Raven did not fix the problem with bound force abilities. I still cant get absorb, drain, lightning and grip to work. Never have, and it looks like I never will.

 

Overall, a very good patch in my opinion.

[Novastorm]

Ok, you asked opinions so here is mine.....i get JK2, i finish it 3 times before i go play it in MP, it rox, i start a clan, i start working on a map for my clan to practice on.....i download and install the patch.............i'm thinking about giving the leadership of the clan to someone else, stop making my map and throw the JK2 disc into the FRIGGIN GARBAGE BIN BECAUSE THIS SUX!

The good fights have been reduced to clicking 500 times while running back and forth and hope you connect a hit....i actually got slashed by a total newbie who repeaded the same attack in fast mode over and over again......talk about balancing.....normally i would take this guy out with a right+attack in strong stance....now when i do it, i may be glad if it connects, and even if it does connect i'm not doing him much damage.....wtf? am i using strong? hmmz, yes the HUD has a red line....so what's wrong? why isn't this guy dying? oh wait, it's this DAMN PATCH!

 

So imho they can shove the patch right up the place where the sun shineth not! CHANGE IT BACK! the balance was GREAT, now you made it a lame CLICKFEST FOR PEOPLE WITH NO SKILL!!

[TheDarkSide]

Nova -

 

Explain this flaw in your logic :

 

If the new saber system makes it so that attacks are more easily blocked and you have to look for a real opening instead of just waiting for someone to swing for their guard to be down.....how exactly does this make it easier for newbies and harder for skilled people and not vice versa?

 

 

I'll save you the time. It doesn't. What it does DO is bring you back (kinda) to where you were a month ago, having to learn a slightly modified saber system. We're all kinda starting anew, and while it is a new system your old skills definitely give you an advantage over someone brand spanking new. If they don't then the cold harsh reality is that maybe you weren't as good as you thought you were.

 

TDS

[Wra!th7]

I dont normally post on forums but after this patch i kinda feel the need to voice my opinion... I was playing this game since it came out, and like pretty much everyone else I thought this game kicked @$$... up until this patch came out.

 

A lot of gamers in this community wanted things changed... DFA is too strong... saber stances are imbalanced... drain & heal & yadda yadda whatever... I had no problem with this game whatsoever. If there was one thing i wanted changed it was collision detection... sometimes my saber would fly through an opponent & not do any damage... & even then i didnt complain & I thought this was one of the best games ive ever played.

 

People who spam DFA keep raping you & it needs to be changed? You keep getting killed by drain whores & you beg for a patch... why can't you people just improve? Why is it that when someone exploits something that gives them an edge you people have to complain? Why cant you suck it up, rethink your strategy, work on your game, & get back in & own? & if some of you think im a DFA spammer youre wrong... 95% of my game comes from medium stance... without the use of the medium finisher.

 

My point is, when DFA spammers, strong stance users, drainwhores, etc. (who BTW dont suck, theyre just good at what they do) started ruling the scene i didnt spend time complaining to Lucasarts & Raven, I worked on my skills & now, in 1.02 at least, im able to hold my own against them & all types of players. I'm not saying im the best player, cuz ive fought plenty of you who've made me struggle & still give me trouble =P, I'm just trying to get some people to understand that it IS possible to fight against those mentioned above, & what you saw as imbalance, was just your own lack of skill and or your refusal to improve your sh*t.

 

This game was great from the get-go... and at the request of this community its been turned into something less than it was. Yeah i'm gonna re-learn everything with this new patch, but somewhere along the lines someone who's smart will find an edge, you people will complain yet again & bastardize this game further. My 2 cents....

 

And BTW, when I say "you" I'm not referring to everyone... if you get offended when you read this post or feel like u gotta flame me, then yea, guess i was talkin bout u

 

-E

[Solo4114]

I've posted this elsewhere, but I'll post it here too, and in any thread where people complain about the patch.

 

I like the patch so far. I haven't played as a darkside jedi yet, but as a lightside jedi, it's quite well balanced, I think. Let's review the changes, shall we?

 

1.) Nerfing of Drain and Heal

 

Now, I haven't conducted extensive testing of this, I'll admit, but it seems that nerfing both is valid. Maybe they nerfed drain too much, but as a lightside jedi, I really don't mind not being able to heal 50% health with 25% force at level three. I think it's pretty balanced, personally. Drain doesn't suck force power nearly as fast, and heal doesn't give you back inordinate amounts of health for very little mana the way it did. This makes for less abuse of force powers. We'll get into defining abuse later on.

 

2.) Absorb is invisible

 

This was absolutely necessary as a change. With the old blue glow on, absorb was totally useless. really. Especially with drain being so highly powered. Sure, you could turn it on immediately after the enemy attacked you with drain or lightning or grip, but they'd still get those few seconds of drain off of you (which, under the old way, meant you were down to at least 50% mana when you turned on absorb), or could hoist you up in the air using grip or what have you. Mostly, in 1.02, I'd only use absorb as a warning sign to say "Your mind tricks will not work on me, boy." Unfortunately, this meant that darksiders could simply wait until my force was drained, and could then just grip and drop me.

 

As said elsewhere by someone other than myself, you don't know when a drain attack is coming, so you shouldn't know when an absorb defense is turned on. Fair's fair.

 

3.) Guns being nerfed

 

Personally, I never played with guns much. I'm just more into sabres really. No DL-44 pistol, so guns leave much to be desired, for me.

 

I'll say this. I tried the patch out for the first time on a server I started, playing an FFA game. I loaded bots that use guns and bots that use sabres and force. And I joined in as a sabre/force user. Wanna know what happened? The solo bot, one that's been configured to avoid sabres and use guns, owned everyone else. When I could FIND the damn bot, I still could hold my own, but on an FFA server, at least as far as the bots were concerned, the guns still could do major damage.

 

I did try using the repeater and in alt-fire mode, managed to take out three bots in a matter of about three seconds, so if it is nerfed at all, I couldn't really notice.

 

Besides, even if they are nerfed, you can still probably find a cluster of dueling jedis and lob a few splash-damage shots into them.

 

4.) Blocking

 

Blocking makes the game more intricate and require a bit more thought. This notion that you had to have skill to be good with 1.02 is only partially true. From what I saw, you had to do the following to be good at 1.02:

 

- You had to know the moves

- You had to know how to maneuver

- You had to know how to time both your swinging and your running, so as to make sure you hit the other guy.

 

In 1.02 you had no chance to block. Now you do. In the new patch, 1.03, you have to know the following to be good:

 

- You still have to have know the moves

- You still have to know how to maneuver

- You still have to know how to time your swings so as to hit

 

BUT, with 1.03, you ALSO have to know how to block. Yes, you can sit there and block continually and hope the other guy burns to death on your sabre. If he does that, whose fault is that? If you're in battle and you simply stand still and let a guy throw himself on your sword, did you kill him, or did he kill himself? For the record, you still can maneuver to a position where the enemy isn't guarding. Try rolling, jumping, sidestepping, etc. You know what you also might try doing? BLOCKING. For a change of pace, let the other guy attack YOU, then when you've blocked him, attack HIM. I've played on servers recently, and have seen people be parried actually. They try a series of swings, and when you time your swing right, it seemed that you could parry their blow, knocking their blade aside and leaving them open for a second so you could deliver a hit.

 

Sabre fighting now requires more thought from BOTH parties. Yes, you can just stand still and block the other guy while he charges at you slowly eating away his own health. But if you're the other guy, DON'T RUN UP AGAINST THE SABRE. Instead, try attacking, and counterattacking. If you're blocked, try a different angle of attack. Remember, the other guy can stand there and block, but so can you. Eventually, someone has to make a move, and that's where PARRIES come in. You can block forever, but unless your opponent is stupid enough to skewer himself on your sabre, you still aren't doing any damage to him.

 

Now, with blocking added, and parries implemented, you have to wait for openings in your opponents' defense. You have to time your counterattacks so as to knock your opponent out of position. And you have to know how to attack your opponent where he isn't protecting himself.

 

This is all what we call skill. It requires thought, an understanding of tactics, and an understanding of your own capabilities. In addition, you have to understand the MIND of your opponent. Is he the kind of guy who's going to charge at you, swinging blindly with light stance? Is he going to wait for an opening and try to cleave you in two with heavy stance? The ability to defend yourself now means that both you and your opponent engage in battle not just in terms of who can click the keys fastest, or who knows X number of moves, but also who can win the psychological battle. Who knows themself and knows their enemy better. THAT is true skill. Not just who can time a heavy stance swing best.

 

5.) Stance tweaks

 

a.) Light stance

 

Light stance is now truly light. As in nimble and quick. It's not simply "weak". Light stance in 1.02 was worthless. Since you couldn't really block with it, and you couldn't really dish out much damage with it, it served no purpose. Ergo, people would use medium or heavy stance. Now that light stance is the best DEFENSIVE stance, it has a real function. You use light stance while on defense, and then switch to medium or heavy when you want to go on O. This is a balanced change, and makes this not simply the worst stance, but rather, a stance that accomplishes a different goal than the others. It is now another tool available to players, not simply the worst stance in the game. Also, according to Raven, light stance's own lunge move has been nerfed itself. In some ways then, light stance has been further underpowered. No complaints here.

 

b.) Medium stance

 

Medium stance, according to Raven, hasn't really been tweaked that much. What they did with medium stance was to make it so that you couldn't spam a single move over and over again. Instead, you can only get chains of moves if you continually change your direction. This accomplishes two feats: (1) it again adds more true skill to the game. Instead of simply being able to repeadedly do one move, you now have to actually put some thought into moves. At least moreso than you used to. (2) it makes for a more interesting and intricate game. Try out different combos. See how many moves you can chain together. Figure out how certain combos will help you best. In my mind, this makes the game more fun. Regardless, it ain't much of a change anyway. So even if you don't like it, it really doesn't HURT the game any.

 

c.) Heavy stance

 

Heavy stance is now able to truly chain moves together. In addition, its damage potential has been reduced (I believe). It is no longer the best stance in the game. Again, much like light stance, it is simply another tool available to the player.

 

Personally, I never had much use for heavy stance, even in 1.02. It was too slow for my tastes. I prefer faster gameplay, and the ability to react quickly to changes in battle. Heavy stance reduces your reaction speed (by virtue of you taking a while to recover from a previous move), and while it dealt out a hell of a lot of damage, it was just too slow for me to use in the kind of fighting I prefer to do. I DID try the method of timing heavy swings while charging and backing up in 1.02 and found that to be a fairly effective way to score kills. It was also, however, extremely boring, and one of the primary factors that led to my deleting the game from my hard drive and not playing it any more, once I'd beaten SP. Now the game is back on my drive, because heavy stance is just another stance, not the uber-stance.

 

It can still be useful, though. I've gotten into sabre locks with opponents, and knocked an opponent to the ground, and wished I'd bothered to spend points on heavy stance. A swift overhead chop at that moment would have finished the enemy off quickly, instead of my having to spend another few minutes slashing away at them with medium stance.

 

Heavy is not useless now. It has its uses, the uses have just changed. Instead of being the stance of choice, it is now simply a choice of stance. This is what we call...say it with me now...GAME BALANCE. No single stance can always beat another stance. Nor can the use of a single stance beat any opponent you encounter. In lightsabre battles now, you actually have to switch stances to accomplish different ends. This is the end result of the changes to the stances.

 

Want to defend? Use light stance.

Want to to finish off your opponent, or force an opponent to retreat momentarily? Use heavy stance.

Want to be able to react and respond quickly to an attack, while not sacrificing ALL of your defense, and ALL of your offense? Use medium stance.

 

Want to own the competition? USE ALL THREE STANCES.

 

6.) DFA tweaks

 

I never noticed DFA being that much trouble, since I didn't play much on FFA servers where it seemed to cause the most trouble. There were, however, NUMEROUS posts on this forum about the problems with DFA. There were complaints about people using it exclusively; the fact that if you ran BY an enemy who'd used it you'd still die; the fact that you could turn mid-move, and turn even after you'd finished the move; and the fact that there really was no "moment of vulnerability" to the move, given that you could still be killed by a sabre buried in the ground, even if you approached from the side.

 

Therefore, nerfing and fixing DFA abuse was absolutely a welcome change, to me at least. Though I hadn't encountered abuse of DFA on servers, I sure wouldn't have enjoyed playing against people who did that. Even if the move was beatable/avoidable, it would've gotten intensely BORING after a while. Being a sabre guy, I like to have duels, even on FFA servers. I like having a drawn-out battle with a skilled opponent. I like having to adapt tactics, and try new strategies. If an opponent simply uses the same move over and over and over again, I get bored with them, even if I'm winning. That's what I consider abuse of a move. If you use the same technique, move, or force power again and again, I consider it abuse. That's my definition for in-game abuse. If you disagree with that definition, go for it. I don't really care much one way or the other.

 

DFA hasn't even been nerfed all that much. Read the official post by ChangKhan. He'll explain how to perform the move. Then, if you want to do it well, PRACTICE IT. The move always SHOULD have had a moment where you were left vulnerable, since it was a one-shot-one-kill move in the first place. There SHOULD be MAJOR costs associated with executing that move since, if you were successful, there was a HUGE benefit. For those of you who wish you could still spam DFA, and are going to leave the game because you can't, personally, I don't care. You won't be missed as far as I'm concerned.

 

I think what Raven has done is to balance what had previously been an unbalanced game. Could they have maybe done it better, subtly? Sure. Costs for force powers could've been tweaked maybe, certain fixes could've been implemented better maybe, who knows. The biggest problem that I see is that the patch wasn't actually an add-on. By this, I mean that the patch is TRULY a patch. It patches OVER the existing version, removing 1.02 and its play mechanics from sight, in a sense. An add-on, whereby people could still choose to play in either 1.02 or 1.03 mode would have made everyone happy, I think. Would this have been feasible? Who knows. Maybe doing so would've screwed with the netcode. Maybe doing so would've made the game inoperable. Maybe it would've made tech support harder. I have no idea. For whatever reason, Raven decided to fundamentally change the gameplay mechanics in a way that I happen to support, but a lot of people seem to dislike. I think, however, that they did this because they don't really NEED to make it a server side option. That option actually still exists, sort of. Read on to find out more.

 

Those of you who dislike 1.03, I have this advice to give:

 

1.) If you find you're getting your ass kicked using the same tactics from 1.02, change your tactics. If you want to practice your tactics, I recommend either dueling with bots, or replaying the SP game. Since MP is now essentially like SP (how it always SHOULD have been, in my opinion), playing SP would be great practice for the new 1.03 style of play. Try downloading that ladder level, where you play against larger and larger waves of reborn. I'll bet just doing that will improve your skills at the 1.03 style of play pretty damn quickly. I think if you give it a chance, you'll find that the new MP plays just like SP did. Remember how much fun SP was? Aside from the mario jumping puzzles I mean. Remember how awesome sabre combat was the first time you played it? If you haven't played SP yet, PLAY IT. You're missing out. When I first got the game, I immediately loaded up MP. I didn't bother with SP. MP was cool, but when I started playing SP, I discovered that SP was MUCH cooler. Anyway, try learning and adapting to the new style of play. You may find it to be not that much of a change of pace from SP. Give it a chance. you may even enjoy it.

 

2.) If you absolutely hate the 1.03 patch, guess what. You're not alone! Plenty of other people out there feel the same way. Including plenty of server admins. Here's what you should do if you don't want to give up 1.02. First, delete, then reinstall the game, so as to remove the 1.03 patch. Then, either start your own server, or play on a server with 1.02 enabled. How do you find a 1.02 server? Well, the easiest way is to download All Seeing Eye. You can then create a custom filter that will check version numbers and filter OUT any server with 1.03 enabled. Simple as that! You can also configure All Seeing Eye for other custom filters, IE: sabres only, no force, guns only, etc. It's a great program. If you don't already have it, I highly recommend it. If you don't have it, either do a search for it on Google, or just go to http://www.udpsoft.com, I think. (can't remember if that's the name of their website or not...)

 

Ultimately, the choice is yours. But don't be fooled. You DO have an option. If you really like the game, and other people feel the same way, there WILL be servers for you to play on. Those of us that like the 1.03 patch, there WILL be servers for us to play on as well. This is, I believe, why Raven didn't bother to make it a server-side option to play 1.02 or 1.03. Because they didn't HAVE to. You can simply not upgrade to 1.03 if you don't want to play that way. This is also, I believe, why Raven will NOT be changing the game back to the way it was. These guys probably worked damn hard on this for a long time, deciding what to change, changing it, tweaking the changes, fixing bugs, and finally releasing it. They're not going to instantly undo all that work and piss off all the fans who are currently QUITE happy with the changes, especially when YOU already have the ability to fix what you don't like on your own. Don't want to play 1.03 style? Don't install the 1.03 patch then. Just stick with 1.02. It's not like Raven forced everyone to go to 1.03. You voluntarily downloaded the patch and installed it yourself. If you don't like it, uninstall it and play with 1.02 instead. See? Everyone's happy this way. 1.02 fans can still play the way they like, and 1.03 fans can play the way they like. Everybody wins.

 

 

I have one final comment. Well, two final comments, actually.

 

First off, my initial inclination was to start posting things like "HA HA!! WHINERS!! How's it feel to be on the $#itty end of the stick for a change? You're all WHINERS!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!" But you know what? That sucks. Calling people whiners because they articulately express their own dissatisfaction with specific aspects of the game is not whining, no matter what side of the argument you're on. Therefore, while I'd REALLY like to get in the face of everyone who dislikes the current patch and says as much on the board, since that was how myself and a lot of people who disliked 1.02 were treated, I'm not going to. I hereby declare that, as far as I'm concerned, those of you who ARTICULATELY express your grievances are NOT whiners. On the other hand, if all you do is write a post saying "This sucks now!! Gameplay sucks!! I hate it!! Fix it!! Lucasarts/Raven/Activision sucks!! You guys ruined the game!!" then you ARE whining. Offer constructive criticism. Support your argument. Clearly express your points. Don't just write a bunch of bitching and moaning with no substantive complaints or support for your position (and PLEASE don't write it in haxor -- you just look like a frigging idiot when you do that and no one will take you seriously). Look at it this way. Fans who didn't like 1.02 complained. They complained on here and they complained to Raven. Do you think they simply wrote "You guys suck!!! I hate the game!!! It sucks!!! Fix it!!!"??? Do you think they even wrote saying things like "FIX BLOCKING!!! IT SUCKS!!"?? No, those of us who complained to Raven, and those of us whose opinions were likely taken seriously and taken to heart (which, along with Raven's decisions, ultimately led to the patch being in its current form) actually took time to explain what we didn't like, why we didn't like it, and how it affected gameplay. We were clear, we were articulate, and we offered constructive criticism. If you don't like things as they are, I suggest you adopt that approach. Who knows. Maybe you'll get something done.

 

Oh, and the other final thought is, "Take care of yourselves...and each other."

[geronimo27]

Originally posted by Wra!th7

I dont normally post on forums but after this patch i kinda feel the need to voice my opinion... I was playing this game since it came out, and like pretty much everyone else I thought this game kicked @$$... up until this patch came out.

 

A lot of gamers in this community wanted things changed... DFA is too strong... saber stances are imbalanced... drain & heal & yadda yadda whatever... I had no problem with this game whatsoever. If there was one thing i wanted changed it was collision detection... sometimes my saber would fly through an opponent & not do any damage... & even then i didnt complain & I thought this was one of the best games ive ever played.

 

People who spam DFA keep raping you & it needs to be changed? You keep getting killed by drain whores & you beg for a patch... why can't you people just improve? Why is it that when someone exploits something that gives them an edge you people have to complain? Why cant you suck it up, rethink your strategy, work on your game, & get back in & own? & if some of you think im a DFA spammer youre wrong... 95% of my game comes from medium stance... without the use of the medium finisher.

 

My point is, when DFA spammers, strong stance users, drainwhores, etc. (who BTW dont suck, theyre just good at what they do) started ruling the scene i didnt spend time complaining to Lucasarts & Raven, I worked on my skills & now, in 1.02 at least, im able to hold my own against them & all types of players. I'm not saying im the best player, cuz ive fought plenty of you who've made me struggle & still give me trouble =P, I'm just trying to get some people to understand that it IS possible to fight against those mentioned above, & what you saw as imbalance, was just your own lack of skill and or your refusal to improve your sh*t.

 

This game was great from the get-go... and at the request of this community its been turned into something less than it was. Yeah i'm gonna re-learn everything with this new patch, but somewhere along the lines someone who's smart will find an edge, you people will complain yet again & bastardize this game further. My 2 cents....

 

And BTW, when I say "you" I'm not referring to everyone... if you get offended when you read this post or feel like u gotta flame me, then yea, guess i was talkin bout u

 

-E

 

I agree completely. I think the game was phenomenal before the patch, and absolutely hate the game after the patch.

 

The people who got the game nerfed in the patch were the true twirl and spin slasher newbies who had zero skill and did not know how to fight in the game. Those of us with skill and enjoyed the game had no reason to come to these boards and complain - there was nothing to complain about!

 

Having a few skills, I didn't have any problems dealing with DFA, drain, grip, etc. And for those people who used those tactics over and over, it was very simple to see the move coming and counter it.

 

DFA - You can see this one coming a mile away. A) Flip over them and backstab them. B) Side step and slash them. C) Turn protect on and slash them from the front. D) etc. - use your imagination, this stuff is really easy.

 

Drain - A) Turn absorb on immediately and slash at them while they leave themselves open by constantly spamming drain, thus killing them. B) Don't even worry about your force power and just slash at them while they leave themselves wide open. C) Learn how to fight without the use of force powers - oh my! and use other actual skills.

 

Grip - A) Turn absorb on to break grip and slash away at them. B) Use push to break grip and swing away. C) Use pull to break grip and swing away. D) Use saber throw to kill them. E) Any other skill involved counter.

 

These counters are very easy to those who have the skills or to those who try to attain skill. These counters will never be learned by the spazzed out twirlers.

 

It is unfortunate to see Raven, who has I'm sure played TONS of multiplayer during development, and thus deciding on their own what was best for MP before the game was released, turn so easily and destroy everything they had tested because of the few cries of skilless spinning sabering fools.

 

The heavy and medium stances have been weakened to the point where now any no skilled newbie has an equal chance against a skilled vet. The medium and heavy stances are still as slow, but do much less damage. So what is the benefit to using those stances now? None. In fact, it is now a disadvantage. Why shouldn't strong stance be the best stance in the game? It was already disadvantaged because it was so slow, but isn't it the last stance a player can attain in SP? The strong stance should be considered the best stance, and the stance that most players should try to work their way to successfully use. It is now no better than the twirling yellow stance.

 

I think what Raven has done is to unbalance what had previously been a balanced game (for those with skills, of course).

[NewBJedi]

Originally posted by geronimo27

I think what Raven has done is to unbalance what had previously been a balanced game (for those with skills, of course). [/b]

 

Yep.

[Father Ruckus]

Solo4114(or anyone), where do you get that ladder lvl? sounds like a blast.

[Solo4114]

I've never actually downloaded it myself, but I imagine that http://www.jediknightii.net would have it in their file section. It was one of the first files released for the game by the user community.

[pyroclasmx]

I'm going to come right out, I (WAS) a primary heavy stance player, did i chain DFA, no. Actually I"m very impressed with the new DFA changes, a welcome change as well as how you have to do DFA attack. DFA = Death from Above = Strong leap attack (for those who dont know). But, watching how the new patch plays, the timing has changed fine, some combat aspects have changed fine. Heal does about 1/4 of what it used to with max force, I'm assuming dark is the same since i refuse to play dark. However, The changes to the overall saber combat really are not all that great. Sure some call it balancing, but red AS DEFINED in your own manual

This style uses powerful swings to break through defenses. The attacks have great range and a large windup and follow-through (leaving you open to counter-attacks). If they hit, the enemy is rarely able to block the attack and may be knocked down, if an enemy has a lightsaber, it may be knocked aside. It is wise to use these attacks when fighting a lone lightsaber-wielding enemy.

This in my opinion is no longer true, as it was previously. Red required a lot of timing and learning how the stance worked, a good player switches stances depending on situation and who they are fighting, but tends to pick 1 primary stance wether it was yellow or red. Sure the blocking can be increased a little bit to make it a little more effective, but not to this extreme, i swung at a group of people and not a single one was harmed. The blocking is so wacked i was attacking an afk on his back and he blocked a majority of the swings!!!!

Then I saw the new kill technique, the only one that seems to deal any kind of damage, Backattack, now everyones running around backwards doing back attacks since that's the highest damage dealing attack (almost equivilent to a single red saber swing).

I'd personally like to see the other changes stay in this patch dfa change and some of the other smaller changes but please put back the original saber damage and timing, this was a little too much change which lead to a bad taste especially those of us who left Counterstrike 1.4 for this once awsome game.

 

These days of JK2 are gone, rest in peace. And no that was not chain DFA that was chain skill/timing.

[muffo]

You guys are all wrong...

 

Its MUCH better now that the saber is gay!

 

nobody liked it anyway!

 

set sv_sarcasm 0

 

ahhh, much better

 

now really, what kind of logic is used at lucasarts???

 

-What i overherad at lucasarts-

 

"Hey guys, people have discovered TACTICS in JK2!!!"

"What are they?"

"Oooh, they can actually TIME thier swings, heal/drain when they are dying and even use the FORCE!!!"

"SHIIIT!"

"I know, i was thinking, damn, whats next, they will figure out how to KILL!"

"Theres not much time, lets just **** IT ALL UP!"

"w00t, good idea!"

 

-game patch gets made-

 

"Good work, lets go have anal sex!"

"Yeah!"

 

u think thats bad, heres a press release from id

 

"We have noticed thet people in quake 3 have figured out how to USE the rocket launcher!!!, so we took it out and replaced it with a pea shooter!"

 

that, in effect is what it has become, now, in FFA saber only, it is the freakishly harcore payers and newbs that win, i come in, use my strong style, it gets blocked, over and over and over, and when i DO hit, it does 10 damage, yay!

 

what if i get hurt???

 

what if im on 10 hp?

 

well, i just have to wait 10 mins for me to have healed back to full!

 

FANTASTIC!

 

Light side is now TOTALLY crap

 

"ooh, but u still have protect and absorb"

 

"Yeah, u ever USED them? why not? because they SUCK!"

 

Mind trick??? NO, usefull in CTF ONLY!

 

List of ways to FGUCK a game up: make a patch that TOTALLY eliminates known tactics, in the name of "balance"

 

Sneak peek at v 1.04... "we decided to remove lightsabers and the force alltogether, arent we clever!"

 

Whoever made this patch does not deserve to live.

[geronimo27]

'Sneak peek at v 1.04... "we decided to remove lightsabers and the force alltogether, arent we clever!" '

 

Lol, it's close to that now. In many games you first start out with a knife or crowbar, and then pick up other weaps along the way, and you wind up only using that knife or crowbar when you run out of ammo on the other weaps.

 

Well, earlier tonight I was playing on a few 1.03 servers, and pretty much everyone was using guns, and only switched to sabers if they wer eout of ammo.

 

It's a pretty sad state of affairs when the lightsaber, that is supposed to be thought of as the most sacred and ultimate wepaon, is now used in circumstances that parallel the use of that default knife or crowbar.

 

Sad, sad, sad.

[Nax]

This style uses powerful swings to break through defenses. The attacks have great range and a large windup and follow-through (leaving you open to counter-attacks). If they hit, the enemy is rarely able to block the attack and may be knocked down, if an enemy has a lightsaber, it may be knocked aside. It is wise to use these attacks when fighting a lone lightsaber-wielding enemy.

 

Since when did red stance ever knock people down?

 

 

At least the backattack doesn't have range. Counterattack is possible now, what w/ running backwards still being evil'ly fast.

 

Nax

 

P.S. It should be noted that the medium stance backattack does not actually kill in one hit, but in two. Jumping can often save your life if you find yourself too close to a whirling dirvish. In any case, backattack can miss and is one hell of a lot harder to aim than DFA.

[Niurath]

Those of us with skill and enjoyed the game had no reason to come to these boards and complain - there was nothing to complain about!

 

True...and that's why we're all ****ed now....

[pyroclasmx]

Nax

Since when did red stance ever knock people down?

 

This is a quote out of thier own manual for jedi knight 2

[Nax]

This is a quote out of thier own manual for jedi knight 2

 

Yes... You mentioned that.

 

You were complaining about the new patch that:

This in my opinion is no longer true, as it was previously.

 

Speaking of the quoted text from the manual. I am pointing out that it was NEVER true. Since when did red stance knock people down?

 

Nax

[{XG} FreeBeer]

Sad that all these changes have happened.

 

About the only thing that i saw as a problem in game play was in the DFA.

not the DFA it self but the fact that the saber stayed hot for so long, with the old DFA even if it was in the ground and you stepped on it you would die..

 

The game play was very well balanced before this..with the exception of the DFA

 

Force powers where very well balanced if anything light side had the advantage with absorb.now even more so with the way absorb works now

 

Guns where not a problem you either pushed the projectiles back or pulled the gun out of there hands

 

as for what was done to mid stance this makes no sence at all.why change a style so completly ?

 

and what is the point in a saber not doing any damage if you touch someone with it?

 

and why the change in the kicking

 

IMO i feel they have ruined the game in the way that skill is invovled

 

 

and if your responce is its more realistic to the movies youd better go watch them again!

 

 

I myself will uninstall and go back to the way it was DFA and all..

hopefuly the severs dont all go to this patch at that point im done with this game..and many people along with me

[UgonDieFoo]

I'm not really sure why people feel that the new saber system took the "skill" out of the multiplay. The general complaint I've been reading about the new saber system is that it’s now "newbie" friendly. It has been argued that the saber fights have been watered down so that the "unskilled" or less skilled have a higher chance of successfully defending against better players. But I ask all of you who agree with the preceding assertions to consider what I am about to say.

 

Despite what some people have been saying, I think that the new saber system is now more demanding on ones skill than ever before in two ways. First of all, since blocking has been increased it is now more difficult to penetrate an enemy’s defense. Would this not entail that it would require a greater amount of skill to bypass your opponent’s defenses and successfully strike them in the first place? Also, if blocking has been increased wouldn't it be less likely that some "newbie" would manage to score a lucky blow on you?

 

The second point that I wish to bring up is the reduced lethality of individual blows in the new saber system. Some people seem to believe that this change somehow gives the “newbies” some kind of advantage. I fail to see how it does. All players now enjoy the benefit of not being able to be killed by a single lucky blow anymore, whether or not they are “newbies.” Therefore, no particular group of people of a certain skill level gain any advantage or disadvantage from this change. Still, some people may think that the reduced lethality fundamentally protects the “newbies” because it allows them to withstand single blows that were so “skillfully” delivered that would’ve killed them in an earlier patch version. And so the claim is that one’s saber skill negated by the reduced lethality. However, this argument lacks good reasoning. Wouldn’t one’s skill be best reflected in their ability to consistently penetrate an opponent’s defense rather then their ability to simply land the first lethal blow? Does the former not sound like it is more demanding on overall skill than the latter?

 

Now I can understand how people may be upset by the fact that lightsaber does not do the proper damage that it should based on the movies and the Star Wars universe. But I think we can all see that this is so simply for the purpose of more enjoyable gameplay. And that is what the latest patch is all about. More enjoyable gameplay with longer lightsaber duels, just like the ones we know and love from the movies. Raven never intended for the lightsaber duels to be the quick and dirty 2-minute affairs that they were before the patch. That is why they changed the saber system. I think the new system does a much better job of mimicking “real” lightsaber fights. This is what people were asking for and now they have it for the most part. And if you don’t like the drawn out duels and the lack of instant kill moves (except the backstab) then maybe JK2 just isn’t for you. But it should be clear now that the new saber system did not remove the skill from duels in any way shape or form. If anything, the opposite is correct.

[{DHU}Screed]

Originally posted by Beefshank

So far, I don't have a problem with the patch. The things you say are true, but still I haven't had a problem getting hits off people. The fights do take much longer, but so what. That's why I'm playing to game, one long fight is just as good (maybe better) than 3 short ones.

And as for the strong style finishing move, I think the change is great! I'm sure you did use it as a "finishing move" but a LOT of people used it as there only move. Using it SHOULD leave you wide open to attack during the recovery time, and it SHOULD be hard to do, and it SHOULDN'T be aimable in mid air.

It seems to be, so far the people that are complaining about the patch are the people that relied on strong style and mostly that one move. The styles are more balanced now, which is exactly the way the game was intended to be. There shouldn't have been a "Best" style, just different styles. Raven is trying to correct this.

People are also saying how it's not fair because they have to "learn to fight all over again". SO WHAT? It was fun the first time, and it will be fun this time. Although I don't think it's totally true, and suspect those poeple need to learn all over because there fighting revovled around the strong style finisher.

It's just like a tv show, if you don't like it, don't watch. If you don't like it, don't play.

 

And if you can't adapt, then you obviously weren't as good as you thought.

 

By the way, this is not intended to be an attack on the author or this thread, it's just my overall opinion.

 

 

Well I was willing to give the game a second chance and now i feel more frustrated than I did before. This is what I found; 1. Tobe a "good" player u gotta be totally counter attacking u really cant go on the offensive. 2. This blocking has gotten rediculous i over head chopped this guy with the DFA move and he blocked it?! WTF is up with that?! 3. Before there were a couple of different strategies that were incorporated into this game to make u a "good" player, now I only see one which is wait for ur opponant to make his/her move pull/push him so he gets knocked down and do a back slash or backstab end of fight. Problem with that is if u have 2 players that are "good" the game becomes a staring contest. 4. You ask any game publisher YOU NEVER NEVER NEVER make a game, release it, than 1 month later release a patch that totally changes the gameplay its just DUMB DUMB DUMB. You get people like ourselves that are so used to the original way that its like having to relearn the game all over. Im just wondering if the next patch they come out with that were gonna have to relearn again what we have learned, this is stupid. Im just curious on WTF was Raven thinking?! Do you guys feel ripped off?

Also a single lucky blow or single skilled blow is all it should take with a Lightsaber. Did anyone else see Qui Gon melting a freaking blast door with the damn thing? They do cut through just about anything. Even a glancing strike should do a good amount of damage I dont know about you guys but even being touched with a lightsaber blade is gonna hurt like a mofo. As far as the DFA attack being unaimable now, you mean to tell me if you start swinging a bat from over your head you cant change the direction of it? Also if Raven was aiming to make the game more "cinematic" than why is it in all the movies that you dont see the jedis taking direct lightsaber blows off of each other than in the words of Monty Pythons search for the Holy Grail -"Thats just a Fleshwound" and brushing it off. I didnt see Qui gon brushing off that thrust to the gut from Maul or Maul stitching himself back together aft Obi WITH ONE SKILLED blow cut him in half. I can go on and on so i'll just shut up and wait for some noob to try and insult me.

[Orangina_Rouge]

I voted bad for those reasons : Pull/push and Backstab

 

I cannot see if Saber tweaks are good if no one use saber using the rules that those tweaks set in place

 

But for the only moments where i managed to play with some people willing not to abuse , i can tell winning a fight is pretty much about luck than skill ....don t want to rant about saber tweaks until i tested them more but i don t think i could : Everyone using Crap backslash combo