Post patch: Yes, I feel cheap...

[Spider AL]

Those that know my name know that I am one of those evil fewls who gets his name at the top of the scoreboard as much as humanly possible. Yes, I DFA'ed. A lot. Yes, I pushed people over and shot them. Yes, I sniped, repeater-hogged, shot people fighting in groups...

 

But I did all these things with honour. I mean, I always gave my opponents a chance. I let them pull their sabre before knocking them off the cliffs... I let them pick up that rocket launcher before running for the compactor activation console and crushing them. I always fought sabre battles for a minute or two before finishing them off with a DFA.

 

With this new patch, I was hoping that I wouldn't have to DFA to win the match. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to slam absorb up constantly during duels to avoid drainers... In fact, I was hoping for balance.

 

But something strange has happened... Two days playing the patch, and I, even I suddenly feel cheap and nasty, and dishonourable. It's the backstabs you see. The backstabs can kill in one strike. They cut through blocks and shields like butter... And I can't stop using them. They work well. They do the job, and fast. But tonight, I was on a server and saw one man... who might as well have been me, for I have been doing the same thing... Strong style backstab. Over and over. He was walking around backwards... And I saw him work, and he racked up kills, because yes, he was skilled at using the backstabs... and I thought "how cheap." And then it hit me, that man... was me.

 

I've never felt cheap before. The same technique, over and over... That's what I have to use to win, because it's the fastest, most effective and most unblockable technique there is. If I were to sabre fight in other ways, I would be spending precious time on one person that I could be spending on grabbing ammo and blasting the rest of the people. And you'd better believe there's another guy on the server that will use that one technique over and over even if you're not willing to use it yourself. And he will win. On sabres only servers, what else can you do? And now on guns servers, with ammo depleted, what else can you use? I run out of ammo, I backstab. I've played for about ten hours since the patch was released, and it's gotten more and more repetitive and less and less interesting. I've suddenly realised that the one word someone used to describe the game post-patch, was absolutely apt. JO is now neutered.

 

I'm primarily a lightsider. When I realised how cheap the patch had made FFA winning, I played a match as a darksider to see what changes had affected them. I was astonished. Before the patch, a good darksider could challenge me. Now, what use is drain against lightsiders like me? No use at all. It takes a tiny amount of mana away even if I'm slow at activating absorb.

 

Before the patch, a fast gripper might have had a chance to grab me and throw me over the side of a cliff before I activated absorb. Now, no chance at all. Lightning? I've been killed by lightning a grand total of ten times since the game was released... Even if it were beefed up, what good does it do a darksider against a lightsider? Or against a darksider with a gun?

 

As for the light side, I don't waste my mana on heal now. It's no use in a duel match at all. It was never very useful in FFA.

 

And as for team games, at first I thought it might be a minor shift in power... But it seems I was wrong, having played some more matches tonight. CTF for example... Absorb has neutered defenders. An experienced attacker runs in with speed and absorb... he's quite likely to dodge all gunshots, and if he grabs the flag and legs it, who's going to stop him? push won't affect him, it'll merely feed him. Any sabre attacks on the way in or out will be blocked... It's a nightmare.

 

So let's recap: The patch has reduced me, an experienced duellist and FFAer to using a single, boring technique, over and over again so often, that it EVEN BORES ME.

 

It's annoyed experienced CTFers because of the neutering of gun-use.

 

It's made the Dark Side a pale shadow when compared to the sun-like glory of the light side, and I AM a lightsider, so it's hard for me to admit that.

 

People have always accused me of using the same technique a lot, because I've always done what works, what's necessary to win. But now, I'm starting to agree with them, which is terrifying.

 

The patch has made winning boring, in my opinion. I didn't think it was possible, but tonight, I'm bored of winning FF FFAs. I'm bored of defeating foes in CTF. I'm bored of duels which end when someone's backstab finally connects.

 

And I'm tired of running backwards. Maybe I should paint eyes onto Kyle's backside.

 

What I think should be changed:

 

The DFA's problem wasn't its power, it was the ability to turn, and the ludicrously long sideways and forward range of the attack. All that needed to be changed was the turning, and the attack range.

 

Too much blocking means slow sabre fights, so slow that I just give up and shoot the person or shove them over the edge, rather than fighting them. That's not the way things should be, surely? IMO the blocking percentages are way off base. In 1 on 1 duels sure, block all you want, because there's nothing else to do but sabre fight... but in FFA or team games, who wants to stand around slowly nicking away at one person's health?

 

The backstabs are ludicrously powerful. Another one-hit-kill has replaced the DFA, and one wonders... what was the point?

 

Drain has been stripped of any power at all. Too far in the right direction, methinks. It's just not a danger to anyone anymore.

 

Heal... what exactly is the point of this? Three points sunk into one power and what do you get? A single health pack's worth for half your stock of mana. Surely ALL the powers should be desirable and useful, or why have them at all?

 

Spider's verdict:

 

1.03 favours Lightsiders like me, disadvantages Darksiders, removes any need to duel with the sabre, (backstab instead) and (So WD_Rage and others say,) makes a mockery of CTF.

 

It also introduces two fun-filled concepts:

 

Running backwards while bent forwards so that you can see who's behind you, so that you look utterly and completely ludicrous, and miss all the scenery except the floor textures. Let the buttocks show ye the way forward, young Padawan.

 

And the second, the concept of utterly useless Force Powers. Heal and Drain now sit in a world of their own as the most completely feeble "powers" ever to possess the name. I hereby dub Heal and Drain "Force Weaknesses" rather than "Force Powers."

 

Let me finally make clear, I haven't lost a FF FFA, or a FF duel, since I downloaded the patch. This is not a rant born from the frustration of a loser, but instead the frustration of a winner.

 

I'm off to play 1.02. Yes, I'll have to put up with DFAers and drain-happy madmen, but in my considered opinion, it's preferable.

[PurplWulf]

well I can't speak for the weapons aspect of the game because I'm a saberer, but as for the backsweep, guess what?

 

when you go back to 1.02, you're gonna see it used alot more now, and it's more effective pre-patch than it is post-patch.

 

the only reason you didn't see as much before was because so many people realized how easy DFA was and other spams, but now that a whole new crop of players has discovered it again, you can bet you'll be seeing it more and more no matter what version you're using, unless of course, Raven fixes that in a later patch.

 

 

the purple one

[Spider AL]

You're right about the proliferation of backsweep Purpl, but I simply cannot stand the nerfing of drain, grip, heal, guns, and the slow, boring sabre fights.

 

As for the usage of backsweep, at least I'll be able to hit an opponent twice with heavy style and kill them, rather than waiting for their backsweep to connect while I chip mindlessly away at their health, lucky if they do not block me completely inadvertantly.

[Ko'or Oragahn]

because yes, he was skilled at using the backstabs...

 

What a skill !... *rolleyes*

 

[jmcdavel]

Very well written Spider, sums up my thoughts perfectly.

[Zek]

Saber fights in 1.03 are rarely slow and boring for me; many of them last no more than 30 seconds. The ones that are longer at least remain interesting because there's rarely a dull moment, as opposed to the constant running around in 1.02.

[Spider AL]

Zek, a fight against someone like me (at least in FF which I frequent) will ALWAYS be short. One hit kill. One hit, and you're dead. I don't want to play like that, I doubt anyone does... But it's the way things are. All the patch has done is decreased Darksiders' defences against my one-hit-kills, and made headless-chicken-style the order of the day.

[[QGA]Vertigo]

Spider....

 

I totally agree with you... (except for the fact that I'm not a spammer whatsoever )

[Darksider]

I was hoping that I wouldn't have to DFA to win the match

 

You dont have to do any such thing. If you do, it simply indicates a lack of skill on your part. That is not a justification for DFA whoring :-

[Aiee]

Headless-chicken-style is easily counterable though.

 

Try a nice little saber throw at your opponent, because there's no way they'll block while spinning like that. the light stance lunge and the medium stace special move do a good job at hitting the spinning top without hurting you as well.If you do a triple-chain of heavy attacks at a headless chicken, and keep your aim at them throughout the combo, they'll be dead atthe end of it, because they won't be able to block your moves very well.

 

Heck, every so often, one of the spins has that really slow bit where they're nearly standing still before bringing their saber back up. that's your cue to run in and hit them with a medium stance slash for 20-30hp.

[TheDarkSide]

Purplwolf,

 

I've been trying to make that point for a bazillion threads now.

The backsweep is in v1.02, and it's even more powerful than it is in the new patch.

 

Your added point that now the community knows about it and will surely spam it worse in v1.02 is a good one. I've been on these forums standing up for the patch, and I'll admit it's overtweaked somethings, but you'll never get me to say the old version was better. In my mind, it simply was not.

 

Raven has already said they will tweak the backswing. I believe it is in one of the sticky threads up top....unfortunately for the 1.02 reverters it'll mean to get it, you'll have to live with whatever survives from 1.03 to 1.04

 

Folks listen, Raven does care about what you think, and if you post constructive things, like Spidey has here, you will find them more than willing to listen than if you post "patch sux, oh well v1.02 here I come".

[Spider AL]

You dont have to do any such thing. If you do, it simply indicates a lack of skill on your part.

 

Oh what a load of rot. The point of a patch was to REMOVE cheap moves, not make a cheap move easier to do, which is the effect it's had! Since Raven have accidentally left the move in there, people will use it! Since I wish to win, I must match move-for-move, those players who rival me on FFA servers, thus I must use cheap moves in order to win. The fact that normal sabre swings do less damage now only makes it MORE likely that a player will resort to a 1 hit kill.

 

Headless-chicken-style is easily counterable though.

 

DFA was easily counterable, but that doesn't mean it should have been left as it was, eh?

[geronimo27]

Originally posted by PurplWulf

well I can't speak for the weapons aspect of the game because I'm a saberer, but as for the backsweep, guess what?

 

when you go back to 1.02, you're gonna see it used alot more now

 

Well, let's go back to reality and fact. I run a 1.02 saber only server, and guess what? People in fact do NOT run around backwards trying to backstab others. In fact, I have seen zero increase in backstabs since before the patch was released.

[Aiee]

I challenge you to find a single post by me pre-patch that mentions takng out DFA. ;]

 

I like the changes to DFA post-patch, because it makes SENSE that someone shouldn't be able to rotate in the air, just like they can't rotate in the light lunge. And it makes SENSE that someone poking your toe with the top of their lightsaber from underground won't kill you instantly.

 

Headless chickens are in there for now. I am not Raven. I cannot give you a patch that removes them. I merely present you with the methods I've found to combat them so far, in the hope that you will find them as effective as I have, and that you will find the game more enjoyable overall once you've mastered the changes put forth in the patch.

 

My motives, as always, remain entirely transparent.

[Spider AL]

Geronimo's information proves one of my points to an extent, that the number of heavy-damaging moves that DIDN'T involve running around waving your buttocks in front of you, meant that backstab moves were undesirable.

 

(edit)

 

I challenge you to find a single post by me pre-patch that mentions takng out DFA

 

My comments that DFA should indeed have been nerfed has nothing to do with you personally Aiee, I fail to see why you are taking it as such.

 

it makes SENSE that someone shouldn't be able to rotate in the air, just like they can't rotate in the light lunge. And it makes SENSE that someone poking your toe with the top of their lightsaber from underground won't kill you instantly.

 

And it makes sense that all the force powers have a use, otherwise why are they there at all? Drain and heal are now of no use. They might as well have been removed.

 

I merely present you with the methods I've found to combat them so far, in the hope that you will find them as effective as I have, and that you will find the game more enjoyable overall once you've mastered the changes put forth in the patch.

 

Well that's very patronising of you, and it presupposes that I have any problem at all winning with the patch. I have no such problem, quite the reverse, as I've made some of my very best times for making over a hundred kills, since the patch was released! Haha, no, to use common parlance I "own" with the patch. The fact that I'm still winning has nothing to do with my concerns however. The patch has imbalanced the game ludicrously, while trying to balance it. I do not wish to win by using exclusively cheap kills, and I wish that they be removed so that I might not be forced to use them, as I currently am.

 

I am not Raven. I cannot give you a patch that removes them.

 

Once again you seem to be taking this as a personal request to you, from me, that you aid me in removing such cheapness. Rest assured I do not require your assistance in such a venture, nor should you trouble yourself further in this manner, as your involvement has no relevence to me personally, in this current debate.

 

(/edit)

[Cow_JK:O]

I myself never really used DFA. I did decently well, I wasn't the best but I had a lot of fun. I prided myself on dodging and evading then strategically planning a heavy sideswipe. Unfortunately, the fun has been taken away because of things Spidey has already gone to great lengths to explain.

 

Just today I tried the backstab, I had never done it before. This move is sick. I got 40 on a server when the next closest person was 20. I am NOT a very skilled player. That is looney. I will admit that it was fun, if very unfair.

 

If I were to ask for changes...

 

Keep the DFA nerfed, that was wise.

 

Keep heal and drain nerfed. (People think this is silly but I'm thinking FFA balance here. This, IMHO is why everyone said heavy was cheap. In FFA with heal and drain it was almost impossible for anyone but an INCREDIBLY skilled player to get a kill with anything but heavy because of the fact that if someone with heal/drain was hit by light or medium, they immediately hit heal. Back to 100. The only solution was a heavy hit. Keeping this nerfed would give more validity to medium and light, particurally light.)

 

Keep light stance buffed, that was a good change to make a lacking stance better.

 

Get rid of the blocking, it prolongs fights, which is fine for duels, but just takes away a lot of the fast paced fun of FFA and CTF. Similar CTF problems to what others have said. There are plenty of other reasons for that too.

 

Revert heavy and medium. They were FINE. Medium was perfectly balanced, heavy was just right (it was easy to dodge and took skill to do effectively, so no screams please) outside of DFA.

 

 

I know many, many people will call me a whiner and say these changes would screw the patch they love. I'm merely stating what I would love to see happen.

 

And of course, NERF BACKSTAB!

[GooglyMoogly]

So what you are saying is that you have NO self control and your desire to WIN outweighs EVERYTHING else in this game.

 

"Yeah..its a shame what backstab can do...but I must use it because everyone else is...oh wait...now the game sucks"

 

Simple solution DON'T USE THE FRIGGIN MOVES!!!!. If you are so compelled to be the victor than USE THE FRIGGIN MOVES and shut up.

 

Your entire complaint is MOOT!

[Cow_JK:O]

This is not a personal flame, Googly, but I feel you missed his point.

 

What he is saying is that he just wants to have fun. Between the new patch causing fights to take forever (among other things) and many other players doing it, it is the only way for him to have fun. I can really relate to that because I very much enjoyed the faster paced combat of pre-patch. (That is how I interpert it)

[Spider AL]

(edit) No, why bother responding to Googly. (/edit)

 

My point stands.

[Nill the Mean]

I have played a lot with the patch and I love it's depth and detail. The saber battles are indeed a lot more complex and require better timing. But I still think some things should be changed for the sake of balance/playability.

 

I won't be discussing force or guns because I don't think these things have been nerfed badly at all. I still find grip/drain/heal to be very usefull. The alt-fire guns just need more accuracy now... if you run out of ammo, you always still have the force/saber so that should do you good untill you get more ammo, I think.

 

1. Clashing during attack animations should either be delayed or toned down a bit. Right now the sabers clash very frequently during attack animations. Reducing it a bit would allow the battles to speed up a bit which I think would improve playability (fast = fun, ususally).

 

2. Bocking frequency is fine now, you feel a lot safer trying to block incoming hits. In 1.02 I thought blocking was a bit tame... Sometimes hits seemed to just break through for no apparent reason. However, if the radius was turned down to about 30 degrees, then I think there would be a lot more satisfaction in blocking. I tested today to see what radius you could block things in... I found that you can block things attacking 90 degrees to either side of you... a bit overdone. I'm really not pulling your leg here, try it, it works. In addition, on rare occasions, players seem to block things behind them. Thus, toning down the radius would make it more convincing and still far from usesless.

 

3. Up the damage on all attacks apart from backstab. I think people could stand to die a little quicker than they do now. Not that you would, you could play very carefully and not get hit, of course. It would make the fights seem more "lethal" in my opinion. I think it should never take more than 4-6 clean hits to kill someone. With the current blocking system, good players would still beable to survive for a long time, yet they have the potential to end it very quickly. As for backstab, I personally don't think it is such a big problem... however I have seen people do this and I don't think it should be encouraged. Make it less effective than attacking stuff in front of you, but not by much.

 

I suggested this stuff earlier for the next patch.

In addition to people saying Absorb is overpowered: How so? Absorb doesn't help you rack in kills, it merely defends you. It won't do you any good against someone with a gun/saber. As for drain being nerfed, good. Now people wil use it to get in that needed health instead of just draining like crazy. Heal is also fine the way it is, IMO. If you need to heal more, then just start playing defensively. And I don't see how grip is nerfed. On thin walkways you can still be flung off in no time whatsoever if you aren't carefull.

[Spider AL]

In addition to people saying Absorb is overpowered: How so?

 

Just with regards to that, I think Absorb appears overpowered to some because it is so much more powerful than the dark side counterpart powers now. Drain and grip having been nerfed and all.

[GooglyMoogly]

LOL..I just find it EXTREMELY ironic that he admits to be a cheap-kill-whore...

 

POINT BEING:

 

It's the PLAY STYLE like his that caused SO MANY people to bitch and moan until the game was patched...LOL...don't you see?

 

Spider has no one to blame but himself. Poor lad.

 

Next!

[drallvekk]

CONS:

 

they removed all the medium stance moves

 

the backstab is to powerfull

 

less damage, it takes to long to kill someone (boring)

 

very limited hit indication

 

the hit range seems a bit too extended in every stance (unrealistic)

 

allows saber throw (as an option) in no force duel

 

 

 

PROS:

 

no more death from above spam

 

nice force adjustments

 

fixed some minor interface issues on the multi screen select

 

the ingame chat pop up box is cool (although it is over used)

 

 

the patch was a step in the right direction but all they had to do to the saber system was take out the dfa spam

[GooglyMoogly]

Originally posted by Cow_JK:O

This is not a personal flame, Googly, but I feel you missed his point.

 

What he is saying is that he just wants to have fun. Between the new patch causing fights to take forever (among other things) and many other players doing it, it is the only way for him to have fun. I can really relate to that because I very much enjoyed the faster paced combat of pre-patch. (That is how I interpert it)

 

No offense taken.

 

Mob Rules.

 

Sure Spider wants to have fun, but he never considered how he may be ruining other peoples fun. His point of view is entirely selfish. I'm sorry the new patch took away his "fun"...but in the long run many more people can now have fun because their goal IS to have fun and not win at ANY expense.

 

See my above post about the irony as well.

 

As far as I'm concerned one less player like him is a good thing.

[Spider AL]

LOL..I just find it EXTREMELY ironic

 

Another one who doesn't understand the meaning of the word "irony." Seek a dictionary, not an Alanis Morissette song.

 

It's the PLAY STYLE like his that caused SO MANY people to bitch and moan until the game was patched...LOL...don't you see?

 

Ahh so you're admitting that the patch has had a negative effect on the game,.. but you're accusing me of having a hand in it?

 

How very odd you are. Also you USE CAPS FAER TEO MECH!!!11

 

 

(edit)

 

Sure Spider wants to have fun, but he never considered how he may be ruining other peoples fun. His point of view is entirely selfish.

 

Classic whining fare. How does my winning deprive you of your fun? I don't interrupt sabre duels, I don't crow over the fallen when I've defeated them... unless they do it to me first, of course. No, you and your kind whine about "not having any fun" because you lose, and can't explain it in any other way than "YUO R CHEEP!!11"

 

I'm sorry the new patch took away his "fun"...but in the long run many more people can now have fun because their goal IS to have fun and not win at ANY expense.

 

And of course, you've proven my point here. Because, why would I be posting in this way, unless I didn't want to win at any expense. If I just wanted to win at any cost, I wouldn't care that I'm being forced to join in the cheap technique usage in order to secure victory. QED.

 

As far as I'm concerned one less player like him is a good thing.

 

I think you've gotten the wrong end of the stick here. I'm not going to stop playing. I'm not even going to stop playing 1.03. No, what I'm going to do is constructively lobby for the changes I wish in 1.04. And by god, I'll give it my best shot. Ithankyou.

 

(/edit)