Post patch: Yes, I feel cheap...

[Spider AL]

For the fiftieth post in this thread, I would like to request to the moderators that this thread, and all other threads discussing the patch in a constructive manner, be moved to the game feedback forum where we can all work out exactly what we want from 1.04. Would that I could do it myself.

[Nill the Mean]

Wow, I'm amazed at how good this thread is. No whining/complaining. Just good debate. Seriously, I think we can all pat ourselves on the back. We are all starting to agree on what should be done, an obvious sign that we are getting somewhere.

It is a good idea, and would undoubtedly make the sabre combat feel more fluent... but I for one would like a vastly lower blocking radius in FFA. Vastly.

How vast exactly? I don't think they should tone it down as far as 1.02. The blocking now has many more features which could be fine-tuned and it would be a shame not to implement them. I'm thinking 1.03 style blocking with the fluent combat of 1.02.

In order to make gunning more appealing, I think you should be able to do the acrobatic moves (kick/flip/wallwalk/roll) whilst holding a gun. Maybe not roll because you already have the advantage of ranged attack with a gun. The amount of ammo required should go down a bit again.

And for nostalgia, I must once again cry out for the fists.

 

I thought of something especially sweet just now... more of a mod thing because it would require quite some work probably... why not have those dodge animations for Seeing pop up when using Speed in a saber duel. Instead of a blocking animation you dodge Matrix style. Or have those animations sped up for dodging repeater/E-11 bolts, like the agent in the Matrix.

OK, maybe I'm dreaming now but it sounds cool...

[TheDarkSide]

This thread is a beautiful beautiful thing. These kind of threads are what Raven will respond to. I only wish all the patch feedback threads were like this *sigh*

 

I don't have much to add to the discussion as the points discussed here are pretty good and complete.

 

I have realized over the course of the past few days why I love this patch so....it's because it caters primarily to duelers, and that's what I primarily do. I play occasional games of FFA and play more CTF than TFFA, so I barely notice the slower pace that this patch gives to the game. I can definitely see now that the changes which are so great for dueling can be detrimental to FFA.

 

As to why I prefer dueling, I can't really say. I like FFA when it's a gang of guys I know (i'm talking like LAN FFA), but jumping on a random server and beating a bunch of people I know absolutely nothing about nor will likely ever see again after I log off....well, that holds absolutely zero interest to me. As a young'un I wrestled in junior high and high school, and played racquetball and tennis recreationally, and while I love playing basketball, one on one b-ball is my favorite. I like the 1 v1 environment in general, skill vs skill, no one to support you or do the dirty work for you to mop up on.

 

Ack, I've been rambling. Here's my small addition to the patch feedback, do whatever you'd need to do to FFA and CTF to get people happy with the game again, but leave the dueling exactly as it is. It is perfect. If that involves a different set of mechanics for one vs the other, I think I could live with that.

 

TDS

[IronJedi Kaga]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Zek, a fight against someone like me (at least in FF which I frequent) will ALWAYS be short. One hit kill. One hit, and you're dead. I don't want to play like that, I doubt anyone does... But it's the way things are. All the patch has done is decreased Darksiders' defences against my one-hit-kills, and made headless-chicken-style the order of the day.

 

The one thing that I feel people dont understand is by that there very nature ff games are never about sabers. In 1.02 it was about drain, and heal. Now ff sabers are about push/pull as a lead in to backstab. IMO the only way to get a good saber game is to go nf.

 

As for the opening post about ffa, er if I see someone backing up as you, I'd just shoot. Unless you mean a sabers only ffa which is another matter, but if there are guns invovled killing people who run around backwards is easy.

[SpaceMonkey1315]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Those that know my name know that I am one of those evil fewls who gets his name at the top of the scoreboard as much as humanly possible. Yes, I DFA'ed. A lot. Yes, I pushed people over and shot them. Yes, I sniped, repeater-hogged, shot people fighting in groups...

 

But I did all these things with honour. I mean, I always gave my opponents a chance. I let them pull their sabre before knocking them off the cliffs... I let them pick up that rocket launcher before running for the compactor activation console and crushing them. I always fought sabre battles for a minute or two before finishing them off with a DFA.

 

With this new patch, I was hoping that I wouldn't have to DFA to win the match. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to slam absorb up constantly during duels to avoid drainers... In fact, I was hoping for balance.

 

But something strange has happened... Two days playing the patch, and I, even I suddenly feel cheap and nasty, and dishonourable. It's the backstabs you see. The backstabs can kill in one strike. They cut through blocks and shields like butter... And I can't stop using them. They work well. They do the job, and fast. But tonight, I was on a server and saw one man... who might as well have been me, for I have been doing the same thing... Strong style backstab. Over and over. He was walking around backwards... And I saw him work, and he racked up kills, because yes, he was skilled at using the backstabs... and I thought "how cheap." And then it hit me, that man... was me.

 

I've never felt cheap before. The same technique, over and over... That's what I have to use to win, because it's the fastest, most effective and most unblockable technique there is. If I were to sabre fight in other ways, I would be spending precious time on one person that I could be spending on grabbing ammo and blasting the rest of the people. And you'd better believe there's another guy on the server that will use that one technique over and over even if you're not willing to use it yourself. And he will win. On sabres only servers, what else can you do? And now on guns servers, with ammo depleted, what else can you use? I run out of ammo, I backstab. I've played for about ten hours since the patch was released, and it's gotten more and more repetitive and less and less interesting. I've suddenly realised that the one word someone used to describe the game post-patch, was absolutely apt. JO is now neutered.

 

I'm primarily a lightsider. When I realised how cheap the patch had made FFA winning, I played a match as a darksider to see what changes had affected them. I was astonished. Before the patch, a good darksider could challenge me. Now, what use is drain against lightsiders like me? No use at all. It takes a tiny amount of mana away even if I'm slow at activating absorb.

 

Before the patch, a fast gripper might have had a chance to grab me and throw me over the side of a cliff before I activated absorb. Now, no chance at all. Lightning? I've been killed by lightning a grand total of ten times since the game was released... Even if it were beefed up, what good does it do a darksider against a lightsider? Or against a darksider with a gun?

 

As for the light side, I don't waste my mana on heal now. It's no use in a duel match at all. It was never very useful in FFA.

 

And as for team games, at first I thought it might be a minor shift in power... But it seems I was wrong, having played some more matches tonight. CTF for example... Absorb has neutered defenders. An experienced attacker runs in with speed and absorb... he's quite likely to dodge all gunshots, and if he grabs the flag and legs it, who's going to stop him? push won't affect him, it'll merely feed him. Any sabre attacks on the way in or out will be blocked... It's a nightmare.

 

So let's recap: The patch has reduced me, an experienced duellist and FFAer to using a single, boring technique, over and over again so often, that it EVEN BORES ME.

 

It's annoyed experienced CTFers because of the neutering of gun-use.

 

It's made the Dark Side a pale shadow when compared to the sun-like glory of the light side, and I AM a lightsider, so it's hard for me to admit that.

 

People have always accused me of using the same technique a lot, because I've always done what works, what's necessary to win. But now, I'm starting to agree with them, which is terrifying.

 

The patch has made winning boring, in my opinion. I didn't think it was possible, but tonight, I'm bored of winning FF FFAs. I'm bored of defeating foes in CTF. I'm bored of duels which end when someone's backstab finally connects.

 

And I'm tired of running backwards. Maybe I should paint eyes onto Kyle's backside.

 

What I think should be changed:

 

The DFA's problem wasn't its power, it was the ability to turn, and the ludicrously long sideways and forward range of the attack. All that needed to be changed was the turning, and the attack range.

 

Too much blocking means slow sabre fights, so slow that I just give up and shoot the person or shove them over the edge, rather than fighting them. That's not the way things should be, surely? IMO the blocking percentages are way off base. In 1 on 1 duels sure, block all you want, because there's nothing else to do but sabre fight... but in FFA or team games, who wants to stand around slowly nicking away at one person's health?

 

The backstabs are ludicrously powerful. Another one-hit-kill has replaced the DFA, and one wonders... what was the point?

 

Drain has been stripped of any power at all. Too far in the right direction, methinks. It's just not a danger to anyone anymore.

 

Heal... what exactly is the point of this? Three points sunk into one power and what do you get? A single health pack's worth for half your stock of mana. Surely ALL the powers should be desirable and useful, or why have them at all?

 

Spider's verdict:

 

1.03 favours Lightsiders like me, disadvantages Darksiders, removes any need to duel with the sabre, (backstab instead) and (So WD_Rage and others say,) makes a mockery of CTF.

 

It also introduces two fun-filled concepts:

 

Running backwards while bent forwards so that you can see who's behind you, so that you look utterly and completely ludicrous, and miss all the scenery except the floor textures. Let the buttocks show ye the way forward, young Padawan.

 

And the second, the concept of utterly useless Force Powers. Heal and Drain now sit in a world of their own as the most completely feeble "powers" ever to possess the name. I hereby dub Heal and Drain "Force Weaknesses" rather than "Force Powers."

 

Let me finally make clear, I haven't lost a FF FFA, or a FF duel, since I downloaded the patch. This is not a rant born from the frustration of a loser, but instead the frustration of a winner.

 

I'm off to play 1.02. Yes, I'll have to put up with DFAers and drain-happy madmen, but in my considered opinion, it's preferable.

 

well, it looks like someone is kinda honerable

[IronJedi Kaga]

Also on a side note, please stop blaming the game for deaths caused by being unaware. If you are invovled in a duel and dont notice someone spamming an overpowered move and get mowed down, you only have yourself to blame. Stay aware of your surroudings and surprises like that shouldn't happen. Its probably the nubmer 1 reason why someone using a saber gets killed on a dm server.

[Spider AL]

How vast exactly?

 

This is a good question Nill, and it's a difficult one to answer. Hmm, in FFA and CTF, (only in my opinion) blocking should occur in at most, in 90 degrees directly in front of the player. Having the full 180 degrees covered is too much for a fast-paced FFA in my view.

 

We are all starting to agree on what should be done, an obvious sign that we are getting somewhere.

 

Indeed! In fact, I'll clarify my views definitively here for ease of reading, using a list thingy:

 

[*]In the next patch, I believe that FFAs should be tweaked to be faster, by cutting blocking down to a smaller radius in front of the player.

[*]In the next patch, I think in CTF either ammo supplies should be increased, or ammo consumption should be lowered once more.

[*]In Force-enabled games, I think that Heal should be tweaked to yield more health at higher levels, but be more risky to use, perhaps by forcing the player into a meditative stance as in Single Player Level 1 Heal.

[*]And IMO Drain should be increased in potency very slightly, because it's just not dangerous enough anymore. It should really be a rival to my Absorb, no?

[*]Grip... well, I think grip should be un-nerfed, and I don't understand in the slightest what reason compelled them to fiddle with it at all.

[*]Other people's good ideas: Aiee's Light stance backstab anim used for all stances, thus safely nerfing Backswing without removing its tactical advantage... Nill's hit sounds only activating if over 10 hit points have been taken, slightly increased sabre damage etc.

[/list=1]

 

Well there we have it. No doubt I'll come up with more hare-brained ideas I'd like to see the next patch, but I think I'll stick with these and only these for the time being. Best to keep the goal in sight.

 

please stop blaming the game for deaths caused by being unaware. If you are invovled in a duel and dont notice someone spamming an overpowered move and get mowed down, you only have yourself to blame.

 

Kaga, this is true. It doesn't make the incessant blocking less annoying in FFA, nor does it make the one backswing maneuver less boring for me to do, or less boring for those I kill. JO shouldn't be boring, ever. Waaah

 

TDS, absolutely the duelling is more fun, though in FF duels I feel the backswing should be nerfed in the way Aiee suggested, by making it use the Light backstab anim, but slower and harder. Otherwise it's simply a "who can pull the other person first" competition, without chance of recovery should you be pulled. I like FF duels... mmmm...

[TheDarkSide]

Spider-

I think that's a pretty good solution for the backswing spamming. I'm not quite sure why Raven didn't just do that to begin with....

 

I'd say I agree with most of your list of proposed adjustments, although point 2, I think will end up being moot. Since there seems to be a sizable chunk of people who are very upset with the increased ammo consumption, I think it needs to be stated that the solution for ammo nerfing is already within our grasp with the JO editor. Quite simply, new CTF maps can be made to include either more ammo, or have ammo regenerate quicker.

 

I think a big part of that particular problem is due to the short supply of CTF maps we currently have at our disposal. Once the editing community gets rolling, I am confident (even if there is never another patch) that this problem will go away.

 

Otherwise, I pretty much agree.

 

TDS

 

PS Spider, I *love* that avatar. That glare is priceless.

[Spider AL]

Quite simply, new CTF maps can be made to include either more ammo, or have ammo regenerate quicker.

 

Everything you say here is perfectly valid, and as with other popular games, I have no doubt that eventually certain user-made CTF maps will be preferred not only by competitive leagues etc. but also preferred by the average CTF player. However, the second point on my list is perhaps the easiest possible for Raven to implement. It'd be the work of a few moments to add a little more ammo on Bespin CTF et al., much faster than tweaking the blocking/knockaways or nerfing the backswing. In fact, I feel that Raven are more likely to address the CTF question than any other question people have posed throughout the post-patch debate... simply because it is purdy easy.

 

I *love* that avatar. That glare is priceless.

 

Pete Cushing's the daddy. There's no getting around it.

[Pedantic]

Wow, what a change! This thread is great!

 

I think that medium spins should be sped up somewhat; patched, it looks like strong move, rather than a medium, IMO. Backstabs should be toned down damage-wise and maybe made to have a slight chance of blocking. The frequency of blocking and the arc should be decreased slightly. Also, I miss my single-tap flipkicks. Now, they are most cumbersome to perform. I would rather accidentally flip because of a small ledge than not be able to do single-tap flipkicks, IMO. These are just a few of my ideas, most of which concur with most peoples' ideas in this thread.

 

P.S. If anyone is thinking of organizing some sort of abstract for changes in the next patch, I would like to be a part of this.

[zufuss]

im pretty sure the main problem with backstab is not the damage but the fact that if you swing around with your mouse, you get not 1 but 2 and if you do it right 3 backstab attacks with 1 hit.

 

This is why you get 1 hit kill backstabs...EVEN with light stance. Because the backstab is messed up. if you move around it keeps on hitting anyone and everyone it touches for the same amount of FULL damage each time.

[Etz]

There are quite a few things I'd like to see changed. For one, the lightsaber idle damage could as well be the original 5, lightsabers are dangerous after all. I'd also like to see some real difference in stances, fighting style wise, but I doubt that will ever happen because it would take lots of time and work to make different moves for the models, not to talk about the chaos it would throw game balance into. A mod would probably be the only way to add that.

 

Talking about idle damage, I'm not sure how it works now. But walking into somebody with out attacking shouldn't tricker a block. This way you could force someone to back off or trigger an attack to create an opening.

 

I still remember what the fights were like in 1.02. People run around like in a jousting match, hitting as they passed. It might have been more exiting than the current form but it didn't look good, that's for sure. That's the reason I'd actually like to see some walking in lightsaber duels. For one thing it would make combos a lot more interesting. You could pull all those spinning moves and what not on your opponents face with out actually runnign past him or backing away. Perhaps walking speed could be little bit higher to make this feasible, what do you think? I'd say it's reasonable to assume that while walking or standing still your ability to block should be considerably higher than when you're running and out of balance (in terms of what it's like in real life).

 

I'm feeling bit wary of really saying my opinions about lightsaber combat because I don't consider myself a top player. I played QuakeWorld for a long time and that made me good in general terms, I know how to trick my opponents and I pick up most things really fast. But I don't have that much time to play, so I'm by no means a great player, yet.

[Etz]

Forgot to add, I've seen this new trend (maybe not new, but this is first time I've seen it) raising its ugly head. People use normal attacks, and during the attack they rapidly move their mouse making the character twirl. This means that if you're in middle of your attack he will hit you multiple times, killing you instantly no matter how much health and shields you have will save you unless you're quick enough to move out of the way. This is difficult especially in FFA games.

[Etz]

Splendid... a new cheat model, probably just like the hands only model used but this time it's just lightsaber so it's almost invisible. Picked this up from another thread, not sure if it's true but it wouldn't amaze me if it was.

 

I just wanted to add that I think moving backwards while running should be slower, the problem is that this would have huge impact on gameplay. How ever I think it would be a positive one. If I could program I'd change all this stuff and test things but as it is now that's kinda difficult, anyone up to try all this stuff?

 

btw, does anyone else find saber throwing annoying? I don't use it myself but to me it seems that it's impossible to launch attacks from heavy stance with out leaving yourself wide open for throw attack? This is just speculation because I rarely use heavy stance either .

[w1ggl3s]

Prepatch backstab is not as pwrfull because the players bounce off the saber hits.

 

The reason backstab is so good in 1.03 is cause they fixed the bouncing of bodies off sabers.

[Aiee]

Originally posted by w1ggl3s

Prepatch backstab is not as pwrfull because the players bounce off the saber hits.

 

The reason backstab is so good in 1.03 is cause they fixed the bouncing of bodies off sabers.

 

Well, you gotta admit that someone being launched halfway over the map from a saber hit WAS a little silly

[-=[M@ximus]=-]

I read all up to 3/4 till i saw Gooly the f()()l

i agree with Spider

as he knows and some of you here have seen/heard i am running WP servers and i have never ever seen so many backstabs!

 

Gooly if your not retarded then the whole point of the game is too win, if u see 3 peeps using lame moves that are winning, your telling me, your going to stand there and let them just win with it? dont be silly my little boy, for u will join and try and beat those peeps with there own moves, like Spider says, i have been on the WP FF sabers only server and i aint lost one yet, all i do is either absorb and push, cause dark just plain suxs now, least drain put a stop too things slightly!

but i have always been a lighty, never a darky like spider can use both, i dont belive in the dark

 

but for the things that got nerfed, i think over all the nerfed the lot, like if i was moaning cause i was lossing then it would be different, but the sad fact is, i dont loss, least not alot, my points anyways....

the main fact is, my Clan Own with 3 darkies and 1 light, light getting the higest rank kills there is, due too the little damage drain does now, those 3 drain, i push, no darky stands a chance against me in a FFA, not sure about Duel, but i am sure its the same....

 

i love the game, and will continue too play it and run servers, but the patch has compelety borked the game

 

IF WE WANTED Realistic moves down to the ground and all the never ending saber slow ass fighting, we would ask for a CS version mod too be made would we not? where sabers takes years too fight, and force powers a real too us

 

please

 

it is a game , and was supposed to be slighty exagerated so start putting things straight, one thing for sure, remove the Weapons nerf, there was no reason for it, and that shall make CTF fall, cause of what u did

 

i used repeater last night with full 300 ammo, it lasted seconds

LOL what could a defender or attacker do with that?

i know

 

/me throws gun at there head

 

there we go!

 

oh well, we can only hope

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

Since I know Spider_AL I know how hard it is to balance winning and playing fairly, and he does do it pretty well. Since i'm on 56k and usually have pings of 500+ I didn't really use sabers pre-patch. With the patch I thought I would give it ago, I'm finding I can kill players with considerably lower ping than me and considerably more skill than me just by using the backstab. So i'm currently trying to master all the moves so I don't have to rely on it.

[Spider AL]

Well I think this is wonderful. People from both the duelling and FFA/CTF camps are agreeing on what to change and what to leave in. As Nill said, we can all congratulate ourselves on managing to be mature games players. I don't think it can be denied by anyone anymore that duelling, FFA and CTF are each distinct styles of play, and require different things from the ruleset. Thus the new patch is excellent for duelling, but impacts FFA and CTF in a negative way, as underlined above. I think we must truly start lobbying for FFA and CTF problems to be removed and ironed out in the next patch, but we must also take great care to preserve the excellent duelling style of this patch.

 

I'm going to see what sort of lobbying techniques may be effective...

[Etz]

Go for it Spider!

 

[Perniciosus]

I've posted my thoughts in many of the threads here and have tried to do so in an intelligent manner despite what the other posters had done in the various topics, so you'll have to pardon me if I don't write it all out again. I am glad, however, to see that a serious discussion topic has been going on without an influx of people coming in screaming about how they think the patch sucks. But I digress: I'm here now merely to respond to something written by someone else:

 

Originally posted by TDS:

Here's my small addition to the patch feedback, do whatever you'd need to do to FFA and CTF to get people happy with the game again, but leave the dueling exactly as it is. It is perfect. If that involves a different set of mechanics for one vs the other, I think I could live with that.

 

I can see where you're coming from with this, and on some level I agree because I find 1.03 duels to be far superior to 1.02's duels, but wasn't a "different set of mechanics for one vs. the other" one of the reasons we're all here lending our constructive criticism?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one of the most repeated complaints that multiplayer sabering wasn't like single player sabering? Each had their own mechanics and I never considered this to be a valid complaint because I liked having the difference between the two as it seemed to give gamers more to do and learn in the game. However, considering that was one of the complaints that brought us 1.03, I'm not entirely sure having separate mechanics for duels would be a good idea. Next thing we'd know, there'd be a lot of people complaining that they feel 'ripped off' in duel games because the sabering style isn't the same as it is for FFA games..

 

Just my thoughts.

[Spider AL]

However, considering that was one of the complaints that brought us 1.03, I'm not entirely sure having separate mechanics for duels would be a good idea. Next thing we'd know, there'd be a lot of people complaining that they feel 'ripped off' in duel games because the sabering style isn't the same as it is for FFA games..

 

Good point, but I don't think it would be as much of an issue... it was primarily the sabreists who wanted SP style sabre combat, and since the most popular game mode among sabre enthusiasts is duel, I don't think they'd mind too much if we tweaked our CTF and FFA sabre combat a little eh? Certainly there will be some people who won't like it... but I have a feeling it'd be a seriously minor minority.

[TheDarkSide]

You're right that was a big suggestion,that of having MP saber more like SP saber, but that was from the "duelers" primarily.

 

In that statement, I was speaking for myself, since I obviously can't speak for all, but by different mechanics I should have been more clear. I'm not talking about a complete 1.02/1.03 split of saber play, but more along the lines of CTF and FFA having perhaps toned down blocking. Not reverting back to 1.02 though.

 

 

 

Next thing we'd know, there'd be a lot of people complaining that they feel 'ripped off' in duel games because the sabering style isn't the same as it is for FFA games..

 

SpiderAl's response pretty much nailed it on the head. The duelers are the ones who would be 'ripped off', and they won't complain too loudly as long as the duels are still good. There may be a few who don't like it but by and large, most of them stick to solely dueling, or are like myself, do a lot of dueling, but still like to do some FFA or CTF and wouldn't mind those being faster paced.

 

I've played alot in the last two days, and I'm going to come out and say even in the dueling system, back stabs are just too powerful now. The light stance backstab used to do only 70 pts of damage. Not enough to take your opponent down right off the bat, but if you got a hit in, you'd be able to finish them off with it.

Well now, the backstab in light stance does at least 125 points of damage and although I've seen it blocked once or twice, the ability to spin with it, literally does make it a new DFA type move. I think it's kill radius is pretty big too, actually.....I was able to kill someone in FRONT of me with it. They started off behind me, enabling me to start the stab, they jumped over me, got in front and approached me, and ran into the hilt of my saber, killing them instantly (full health and shields).

 

Change the backswings to back stabs, take the damage down from 125 pts down to 70/100/125 depending on which stance you are in. Of course, make the yellow stab slower, and red slowest to balance the added damage done. What do you guys think?

 

TDS

[Lucky]

Tweaking the damage and decreasing the blocking radius will definitely speed up duels. If thats what you guys want, its what you want. I don't play duels, so i can't really offer an opinion.

 

As for the CTF side of the issue, I've got a few ideas that might be a lil too radical, however I'm pretty sure they'd clear up some balance issues.

 

first off, the balance of sabers vrs guns is somthing people have taken issue with a # of times on these forums. I think a decent compromise would be to un nerf the guns, mebe even make them a lil more useful, and make saber hits a 1 hit kill against gunners.

 

As it is now, you have to hit a gunner repeatedly to kill him with a saber, and thats really not feasible when yer getting shot at. In the old version, 2 hits with heavy stance tended to kill most folks, and that made the saber useful in a pinch. Usually you'd land one shot, and then get blasted into oblivion. However, at least you could take half their life with you if you were sneaky.

 

The gun nerfs we can all agree were in response to the saber tweaking? Other people have argued this point with me, but that discussion almost brings about an entirely seperate debate, so i don't want to get into it.

 

A 1 hit kill with heavy stance, 2 with medium and 3 with light. + a 2 hit kill with saber thro would definitely make the saber useful. Obviously, this system wouldn't work for dueling, so making it exclusive for a saberist vrs a gunner would seperate it from that playstyle nicely. Otherwise you could leave whatever evolved form of the dueling combat in place for Saberist vrs saberist.

 

In a CTF match, this would draw people into saber battles very quickly as soon as you got close enough to tap someone with a saber. If there was a chance of dying in one hit once you let someone within saber range, you'd switch just to saber just to keep from getting killed easily.

 

This obviously wouldn't negate the advantage of using a gun, however it would make the sabers much more lethal in any sort of circumstance where guns would be involved. If you coupled that with making the guns more useful (somthing a lot of ctf'rs have complained about in private since the release) in general, you'd have a very fast paced CTF and TDM game, with it being a suberset of the dueling style.

 

Second, I propose making duels in CTF and TDM worth points. Actual points, mebe a flag cap in CTF and some server set amount in TDM. That would make the whole dueling function useful in competition.

 

And 3rd, somthing needs to be done about the way push/pull works. I like the power it gives, but there's no real way to stay on your feet consistently unless youre actively trying to knock someone over. People have been complaining about getting dropped off of ledges quite a bit, and while I enjoy that aspect of the game, I feel like there should be *somthing* I can do to get out of being knocked over other than absorb.

 

So I propose a grapple hook. That would give folks an option after being flung over a ledge, and require people who threw someone off to follow up and kill them. Also, in adding somthing like that, it doesn't affect the balance that pushpull have now. Screwing with that would definitely mess up the game balance quite a bit.

 

 

Please lemme know what you think.

 

 

Lucky

[Nill the Mean]

I think a much better option to solve the "push whores" would be to allow you to get up slowly by not pressing any buttons. By doing this, you wouldn't be able to get pushed again. You should still be able to move the mouse once you start getting up.

On a whole, I think the entire getting up thing should be more contollable.