the 1.03 patch, and changes for 1.04 - A compromise, perhaps?

[Sarcastro]

Ooo, Faze, I like that blocking suggestion A LOT. It might help keep folks fighting in close instead of just doing drive-bys, because once you're in tight it'd be harder to move away without getting hit. And yet there's no percentages, so it's a very learn-able system. Would people actually turn Run off, and walk during fights, to improve blocking? That would look cool.

 

OK, here's yet another idea, just throwin em out there. This one is almost pure fantasy and I have little hope of it being implemented, but...anyway. 1.03 adds these knockaway/parry animations that look great. But it doesn't seem like they ever create enough of an opening to take advantage of. What about this instead: assume we've got a blocking system that can recognize when a saber strike occurs in, let's say, 1 of 3 quadrants: a 20 degree arc directly in front and 35 degrees on either side. A successful Frontal block (and frontal block only) always leads to the attacker going into the "parried" animation, where their saber is up and to the side. There's just enough time for the defender to sneak in a light attack, maybe even a medium, UNLESS the parried individual turns in such a way as to put their parried saber into the path of the attack. If they do it just right, in the right arc or whatever, it's yet another parry, and they then have a chance to counter-attack a somewhat open opponent.

 

OK, I realize that's asking for a bit much. Wouldn't it be sweet though? You might actually manage to incorporate the concept of fencing 'time', or right-of-way, where opponents almost take turns exchanging attacks. After attacking, you could back up, true, but why not stick around for the chance to parry your opponent's attack and possibly create an opening? You'd constantly be swinging around after an attack trying to parry the counter-attack, trying to anticipate which way it was coming from. Then if you succeded, you'd likely immediately launch another attack. I think this would create some exciting, in-close, rapid exchanges and would be so much fun to get good at. You could also do all this with some kind of Block button too, I guess, but it would work just as well with a very narrow special blocking arc in front and regular blocking off to the sides.

 

But I know I'm dreaming

[JaledDur]

Originally posted by Hado

What went right:

 

-Blocking percentages were increased, while parries, deflections, reflections, broken parries and knockaways were added. Since blocking feels much more consistent, the emphasis is put on the intricate countering system, allowing players to fight in closely instead of the hit-and-run/jousting style that was prevalent in 1.02. Increasing blocking and adding counters was an insurmountable leap in making saber battles more fun and movie-like.

 

-Added red stance chain attack system. Red chain attacks are especially fun combined with parries.

Removed turning during red stance DFA. DFA's no longer dominate large saber battles.

 

-Made blue stance faster and much more useful for countering. Blue backstab and uppercut lunge crush blocks instead of being deflected.

 

-Ammo usage for guns were altered, and blocking against guns increased. Guns no longer completely dominate FFA and Team FFA.

 

-Ability to kick midair, while removing accidental walljumps.

 

-Fixed many map hangs, crashes and *dismemberment*. Added new maps.

 

-Much easier to move people vertically with force push, pull, and grip. Players can be flung higher with force grip. Players can be pulled off the ground if you're above them.

 

-Empowered light side users by making absorb invisible, with a lower maintenance cost.

 

 

What went wrong:

 

-Added saber bugs in which sabers go right through people without touching (see included demo). Especially visible for any left or overhead attacks.

 

-Saber damage was killed, while introducing uneven, diminishing damage throughout a swing.

 

Fights are much slower paced. A single duel taking up to 10 minutes is common. Because of diminishing damage, and phantom saber strokes, Red stance takes about 3-5 cuts to kill, yellow can take 5-8, blue stance an astonishing 10 cuts in order to kill someone. What was fun and exciting about the original, was that one had to be surgically precise, because one or two hits would mean the difference between life and death.

 

Damage was reduced to the point where only one attack is left that actually works. The backstab is now the only move that can kill someone consistently. What was previously considered a stylish, rarely seen attack, used only by extremely skilled players is now considered "cheap" or "spam".

 

Because sabers no longer fight like sabers, but rather wood bokken, 1.03 has forced players to run away all day, waiting for their force pools to recharge for a pull/backstab or saberthrow. It is actually preferable to back off and run away, hoping to get a kill off someone near dead than actually fight. Anyone trying to give chase is not only slowed down every time they attack, but are also left open for saberthrows.

 

Adding saberthrows to no force duels, instead of completely removing saberthrows from any duels didn't help anything.

 

-DFA was overnerfed and is now considered next to useless. It should at least be able to bypass blocks.

 

-Yellow stance combos are no longer possible. A full swing must be completed before another stroke, like the red stance, but without the chain attacks.

 

Yellow is no longer the best stance for blocking, and parrying with it is random, because hits can still get through. It takes roughly 5-8 non-comboable strokes to kill someone. A red stance player can bust out attacks faster than a yellow stance player. The only saving grace of yellow stance is the flying overhead attack, which has instant kill capabilities, otherwise yellow has been nerfed to nearly useless status.

 

-Blocking from impossible or weird angles. What's the point of knocking someone over, if they can still block attacks, save the backstab? Even attacks from behind are somehow magically blocked.

 

-Removed knockback. There's no longer any important feedback to tell when you're damaging someone or not. Pain/hit sounds are exactly the same for 100 damage as they are for 1 damage, and are very misleading. This problem, combined with the saber bugs, swings often go right through people, only to do 1 or 2 poking damage. Hence the complaints that saber combat feels random now.

 

-Kicking is difficult and inconsistent, especially for anyone with a ping over 100. It's impossible to kick anyone who's crouching.

 

-Unbalanced the force.

 

Completely over-nerfed dark side. Drain can no longer be used as a viable tactic to drain a lightsider, especially one who absorbs. Drain is self-damaging as an offensive force. Drain now removes more of your force pool than the victim's. Players can no longer run with grip. Grip no longer stuns victims for an after hit. Grip damage was decreased. Dark side players are left with absolutely no good defense, much less offense against light side players.

 

Light and dark were never unbalanced in 1.02. In fact, most of the complaints came from people inexperienced with using lightside. In this player's opinion, one simple thing could have been done to stem the complainers. Remove or lessen the startup cost for absorb. That way, even if a player was completely drained, a grip afterwards would only serve to give the lightsider a recharged force pool.

 

 

Suggestions for tweaks and bug fixes:

 

-Severely increase damage for sabers, especially after diminishing damage was introduced.

 

-Widen the arc for full base damage in a swing

 

-Improve the parrying/countering system by making anyone in a stunned/parried/weapon knocked- away animation to revert to walking speed. Either that, or make the "open and unblockable" animation last longer.

This would help promote more close saber fighting and give counters a more tactical feel.

 

-Give the players better feedback of what's hitting by bringing back knockback relative to damage done.

 

-Fix sabers clipping through players without damaging.

 

-Fix attacks being blocked while knocked over or while back is turned to the enemy.

 

-Increase the timeframe from jumping to kicking, or allow kicking at any time while midair. Easier, more stylish, stops accidental walljumps at the same time.

 

-Tweak DFA to cut through blocks.

 

-Revert poking damage back to 5.

 

-Up the ratio of yellow stance damage compared to blue stance, or bring back the ability to change the direction of slashes quickly for combos.

 

-Drain should cost much less, especially after absorb was tweaked.

 

-Bring back running and victim stun for grip.

 

-Completely remove saberthrowing from duels, especially no force duels. Set the default to level 2 force jump for No Force duels to allow for stunts and kicking.

 

 

In my opinion, lightsabers should fight like lightsabers. Every saber hit should be significant, especially when it's so hard much harder to land a hit with the new block system. Especially when people can just run away all day, instantly pull or push you to your doom, shoot with a gun or saber-throw at you from afar. Stop nerfing any more moves or forces, but instead, empower others to make them deadlier and more useful. Make gameplay more exciting instead of slowing it down.

[MrCrusher]

Hado's post implies only that he is not used to the new system yet.

 

With some more play time he will gain the skills to kill quickly. It now actually take skill and strategy to kill effectively.

 

Some players seem to be resistant to the skill requirement.

 

[Comatosan]

Okay... I'm really aggravated now. The mechanics of the sabering have been touched on enough and I'm no gunner, so I'm going to touch on what I know about : force.

 

1- Grip. I don't have a problem with any damage grip does. But WHY in the hell do dark force users get the ability to move their victim with it? I personally think this is BS, and always have. Now, I know a lot of people are going to flame me for this, but I really think that something needs to be changed and I'll back up my arguments with reasons.

 

Grip is often used as an 'aimed push'. All too often you are dropped over the side with it with no chance to survive. Your only option for retaliation is to pull your opponent with you. Or, you can walk your victim into a corner where you close the distance to them and can kick them repeatedly all the while still gripping them. Push your attacker away? No. Simply swing your victim through the air giving them no option to retaliate.

 

Grip is meant to kill someone through choking them with force, not manipulate their movement. In order to fix this, I think that the 'gripper' should be allowed full movement and that when being gripped, a victim should be reduced to walking speed.

 

Possible arguments against this :

- Victims can already push to get out of it.

Every gripper now knows to sling you around so chances of a successful push are slim. As the gripper you can still 'circle' the opponent to avoid a push.

- This will take to much from the gripper.

Again, no. You have the advantage of speed and can set up an attack or even kick the victim (although this should negate the grip).

- I can't manipulate my victim!

Erm, right. Try using push or pull. People fly off the edge of ledges real nice with a proper push.

 

2. Lightning Too much for too little. Boost the amount of force it uses to around what Drain uses.

 

3. I don't mind Drain other than it's 'spread' as someone mentioned earlier. Make it a beam attack as they suggested and it will be balanced, in my opinion.

 

4. As a light player, I don't mind heal as it is. I hate chasing healers and the 1.03 change doesn't negate all the work you had to put in to hurt them when they run away and heal.

 

5. Reduce roll speed. You can almost keep up with a 'speed' runner.

 

6. I'm sorry, Torment, I know you are against backpedal slow down, but it just makes to much damn sense. CTF is meant to be played as a team game, and I know how nice it is to fend off the masses solo, but being able to run backwards and fend off 5 attackers while travelling the same speed, in my opinion, is just silly.

 

7. Push/pull down. This is a fine tactic, but it leaves the victim completely helpless. Now, I know this is the point of this attack, but we're talking realism as opposed to fun here. Since there seems to be no absolute method for getting up and out the way in time, I have a couple of suggestions.

 

Give someone on the ground the ability to use push or (for whatever reason) pull.

 

Another method is the 'roll-away'. I like this idea better as a quick attacker can still get a hit in without having time to set up for the backstab. Every fighting game out there has a 'roll-away' move where after getting knocked on the ground, you quickly push in a direction and roll in that direction while trying to get up. Simply allow people who have been knocked down to roll using 'duck+direction' and allow them to roll a bit away (not the same as the duck and roll while standing).

[Spider AL]

It now actually take skill and strategy to kill effectively.

 

Oh of course! Because shoving some poor fool without Absorb on and backswinging them takes SO much skill, doesn't it.