Tekkaman Slade Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 ...how one could possibly call this game balanced? After spending a few hours with the new patch, it's still as bad as the old one. I know some of you will label me a whiner, or say that I just suck, but I honestly think that is not the case. I've seen at least two moves (the backstab being the most guilty) that can cut through 100 health and 150 shields in one swipe, leaving you dead on the ground. Please don't give me any crap responses such as "well maybe you should start doing it!". Do we really want a multiplayer game where people simple run around doing the same move over and over? I've played a great many MP games in my time, going back to the original "NetMech" for "Mechwarrior 2" (yeah, so I'm not THAT old), and I have never felt so robbed or ripped off when I get killed in JKII by one of these moves. People will say "It's a Lightsaber, it should kill in one hit". Well ok then, make ALL successful strikes kill in one hit. Would that be much fun? Probably not. This isn't so much of a problem in duels, CTF or CTY. It's a FFA/Team FFA problem. People get stuck in corners with 3-4 others, all swinging around going for the kill. But now it's reduced to "whoever can backstab first gets 4 kills", and it's practically guarranteed. So, explain to me. How is this balanced? I think the other improvements to the patch are fantastic, but having these ridiculous 1-hit-kill moves just feals cheap. It's gets people mad when they're killed by it, and it makes people feel cheap to use it. I can only hope some of these problems are addressed in a patch that has yet to come. We'll have to see. Lets the chaos ensue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuloch Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 There are ways to counter it, but with the seemingly 180° blocking radius, it's pretty hard to pull it off (unless you use another combo... or if the person is REALLY stupid). I'm just using weapons until the next patch and screwing the duel servers for now. [edit]Oh, and how does Mechwarrior 2 at all relate to Jedi Knight 2? I don't remember any melee at all... (even Battletech didn't have many melee weapons...)[/edit] -Stele007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striderx2048 Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 http://www.oculis.org/asc/ read and learn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 Originally posted by Tekkaman Slade ...how one could possibly call this game balanced? It's a FFA/Team FFA problem. People get stuck in corners with 3-4 others, all swinging around going for the kill. But now it's reduced to "whoever can backstab first gets 4 kills", and it's practically guarranteed. So, explain to me. How is this balanced? I think the other improvements to the patch are fantastic, but having these ridiculous 1-hit-kill moves just feals cheap. Well, IMHO just as every other move in the game, backstab gets very boring and very annoying if someone repeats it over and over again. Think of backstab as a punishment. You shouldn't go standing behind a guy who knows you're there. If someone starts whacking me in the back I will surely stick him in the belly. As for the crazy 5 vs. 5 fights where everybody simply swings around like a maniac hoping to hit something: Stay away. You will get killed. It's like walking into a...ummm, like...a "place-with-lighsabers-swinging-around. You'll surely get hurt if you don't get the heavy sweep going before the others (=unlikely). The "Ass-fighters" however are ridiculous. Not only boring, but also ridiculous. Having 1-hit-kill moves might feel cheap, but only if they are spammed, right? The strong stance sweep is easily avoidable. Just don't got head first into a lump of 8 saber-swinging maniacs. In a 1 vs. 1 fight the move is useless. (if you're paying attention) Oh yeah..and yes, it is balanced, because everyone can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noaxark Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 Originally posted by Luc Solar Oh yeah..and yes, it is balanced, because everyone can do it. But it's still no fun. Don't want to compare a move with a cheat, but is CS fair just because everybody can cheat? In a perfect world, backstab is a good addition to saber-combat, it prevents people from running around like idiots, trying to get eachother in the back. But this isn't a perfect world and the move gets abused. What if I like the tight group fights and want to play just like in the movies (Episode II *drewls*) without someone just taking out everyone in one stroke? In addition to all this I totally agree with Tekkaman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{DHU}Screed Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 Yes the ass fighters do look like asses and easily dispersed of. Just force push/pull em and they fall down!!!!! Holy cow never new that would happen. As for the people who pull ya down than do the back sweep, there is a way out of it but you gotta be good and quick. Me and a friend experimented all last night figuring out different ways and it is possible (for me to know and u to find out) also the 1 hit kill moves are very well needed, I for one thought ive seen the last of drain spammers but *sigh* alas i was wrong, im guessing if Raven was smart they would have made drain like heal as where u would only be able to use it if you need health!! One more thing if Raven actually reads these posts - My friend who plays with me is Deaf and cant tell if absorb is being used or not:( , good idea with it being invisible but not thought through enough. Maybe u can fix this in the next patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noaxark Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 You can't use force push or pull on saber only servers. and sure, I think that a 1 hit kill move can excist in the game, but it has to be a bit more risky and leave you unprotected a little while, and more importantly you shouldn't be able to kill 4 people with it at one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quelreth Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 I'm about to give up on playing online with anyone other than friends due to the faghats that run rampant on saber only servers (And I don't like playing with guns much, as people will either blast me with the secondary on the Flak Cannon or Repeater while I try and run around with a saber). First it was people using Death From Above then spinning all over to kill you, now it's people running around backwards doing backstabs. It's not fun, it's just plain moronic. Being pushed or pulled then being backstabbed is even worse, since there's basically no counter other than to try and get up and run away before they can do it. Here's a tip, Raven... just dump the goddamn idea of one-hit kills so you'll stop ****ing things up worse with every patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekkaman Slade Posted May 13, 2002 Author Share Posted May 13, 2002 Well I'm glad to see that at least some people agree with me. If you take a game like JKII, and compare the balance in it to say "Medal of Honor" or "Counter-Strike", there really is no comparison. In most other MP games, it's easy for someone to jump in and play on almost equal footing with all players, without needing hours and hours of practice. Even in something like "Medal of Honor", where the sniper rifle kills in one shot, it's easy to avoid as long as you keep moving. And if you do still get sniped, you know it was by a skilled sniper who can hit a moving/jumping target. Also, being a sniper in these games can be a major disadvantage in close quarters, since you're effectively looking through a straw and can't see what's around you. My point is that there are SERIOUS drawbacks to being able to kill players with 1 shot, as opposed to almost NO drawbacks using a backstab in JKII. There's little to no skill involved in performing a backstab, just as it was with the DFA. Any 1-hit-kill move should be very difficult to pull off, and should leave you at a MASSIVE disadvantage should it fail, or should another player enter the equation. Personally, I think the 1-hit-kill moves should be eliminated all together. JKII MP has boiled down to a single Saber move, performed over and over by all players. How can anyone possibly think that this is an excellent MP experience, when compared to the depth of some other games? I wish it were different, because the idea of MP Saber fighting is great. However, I think the fact that it's Lightsaber combat has blinded some people to the fact that if you try and forget about the cool factor of Lightsabers, the MP game really isn't too fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striderx2048 Posted May 13, 2002 Share Posted May 13, 2002 avoid getting pulled down, geez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekkaman Slade Posted May 13, 2002 Author Share Posted May 13, 2002 Well, after just finishing a 2 hour gaming session with a group of people who didn't use backstab, or even the Medium backswing, I found it to be much more fun. Battles lasted longer, and they seemed to be true tests of skill, rather than a contest to see who will get Force pushed first. Much more enjoyable for me personally. It's not always possible to avoid being pushed down. You may be fighting 1 or 2 people, and a third will come along a push you down, immediately followed by one of the original two performing a backstab. But I suppose it's just cause I suck, and the really good players, the ones who have hours and hours of their lives to spare, can avoid this even when facing 4+ opponents. Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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