A better question: WHY did they change ANYTHING?

[Lep]

JKII was one of my favorite games. I'm sure the single player has been improved by the new 1.03 patch, but tell me one thing:

 

Why did they have to change multiplayer in this patch? There were no complaints. It was going perfectly, in my opinion, and I was having a blast. I would play on saber only CTF servers for a couple of hours and have nothing but fun, even if I was getting my ass kicked by a more skilled player.

 

This is one of the few games in YEARS which has captured my attention. And guess what? It went all down the drain because some coders at Lucas Arts decided they liked it better another way. Obviously many people here don't like the way it turned out. All I hear on the servers are complaints.

 

There was a perfect balance before: on weapon servers you could use light saber or weapon, with the obvious downside of having a sword versus an automatic gun. There were no flaws, in my opinion.

 

To come out a winner in a light saber battle it took multiple moves, and two skilled players going at it would have to try everything in the book. Not the case anymore.

 

Point is: no one had a problem with the way it was. Why change it? Who decided that was a good idea? I'll tell you what, if something isn't changed, I will take this back to the store. It's as simple as that. I don't enjoy the game anymore, at all.

 

I went on to one of my favorite servers and found myself "back stabbed" 10 times in a row. I'm sure there are ways around it, but no one cares. Especially when you can get to the top of the list simply by turning on absorb, running, and doing that move over and over again.

 

I don't like ANY new changes. None of them. I liked being able to SEE absorb, I liked being able to KICK people in the face. I was killed plenty of times by kicks, I have been owned by plenty of players with absorb.

 

Where was the problem? I can tell you where it IS now. It's apparently with the multiplayer design team at LucasArts. Please make changes, quickly.

[HughFairgrove]

He has a point.

[Lord Sokar]

You see, after the game came out. People who were to dumb to move out of the way of someone doing a DFA jump complained, LOUDLY. There weren't that many, but they were loud.

 

So, in reponse, RAVEN launched operation 'SAVE NOOB'. They automated the blocking to about 90% of hits, they made backstab in blue stance less restricted and jacked up the kill on the move to about 100hp.

 

You can quickly identify these players by looking for the keywords 'stop whining about 1.03!!!!!'.

 

Now we have 10 million people playing... BACKWARDS!

 

Welcome to the new JK2!

 

Rejoice nOObs, this patch is for you!

[Swordless]

well many people did complain about DFA. i didnt care. a kill is a kill. i personally dont dislike the patch. its fine in my eyes.

[AV_JC_Frost]

I do agree with you. There are many, many changes that didn't need to have been made. (split infinitve! my english teacher would kill me ) But we have to remember that it IS their game, and it is theirs to tweak. They may have had a more far-reaching vision for this patch than what actually came out, and could be working on 1.04 as we speak. We need to stop focusing on just this patch and focus on the potential, this will not be the last patch to the JKII game. While it can and is a bit more difficult, and even annoying at times, it isn't horribly bad. The best we can do right now is sit down and wait to see what the designers will do. Patience, they will listen to the community's voice and act upon it.

[Spider AL]

Please make changes, quickly.

 

Yes, please do Raven.

 

The best we can do right now is sit down and wait to see what the designers will do. Patience, they will listen to the community's voice and act upon it.

 

Bear in mind though, that the more we discuss what we want from the next patch, the more likely we are to get it. That's one thing we've learned from the whining lot.

 

Discuss!

[Darkprophet]

I agree whole heartedly, the only thing I liked about the patch was the icons, even that could have been clearer.

[Blamer]

Yeah, my favorite parts of 1.02 were the lightsabers passing through each other with regularity, dying and flying 20 meters because I tapped a saber buried in the ground from DFA, using Heal to recover from anything but a strong hit, and the strong stance jousting that was all about trying to catch someone on the tip of your saber at the very end of the swing. Oh, and since the blocking was basically completely random instead of a reliable and predictable system, no one ever dared get within saber range unless they wanted to tap someone with their jousting moves, and when you did block it was like a random "get out of jail free" card instead of part of your strategy.

 

"To come out a winner in a light saber battle it took multiple moves, and two skilled players going at it would have to try everything in the book. Not the case anymore. "

 

What a joke, by "multiple moves" you must mean DFA, medium finisher, strong stance chop and strong stance sideswipe. That's all I ever had to use to come out the winner in a 1.02 fight. Okay, once in a while I used the lunge or a medium swing for flavor, but it put myself at a disadvantage. If anything, that first sentence is a description of a 1.03 duel, no other game has forced me to click that middle mouse button so much since the patch came out.

 

"I liked being able to SEE absorb"

 

So you could just backpedal/backroll until it came off then drain/lightning/grip/pull/push/whatever with impunity...they reverted Absorb to the way it was back in JK1, I don't remember anyone complaining back then. Also, Absorb still produces a pretty distinctive sound when it's on.

 

Kicking is actually easier in the new version once you get used to it, because with the first jump you can set up for the kick from a distance. If someone is crouching, use side kicks or just DFA him.

 

Yes, I think there are real problems with the new patch. I don't see how they messed up the guns/saber balance, the sabers do less damage but the attacks that bypass saber blocking, repeater and flak secondary, take huge amounts of ammo now.

 

I would say they need to increase saber damage overall, maybe 40/60/80 for each of the stances; since light stance has the shortest swings it should be the easiest to do max damage with in each swing. Since blocking is an important part of the game now, and strong now takes the role of also being the block-breaker stance, 80 max damage is fine. Hell, maybe make the damage go 50/70/80 and make medium better at breaking a light stance block.

 

The gun nerfs need to be toned down (i.e. only 16 for repeater secondary) to make the attacks viable without going back to the total spam of 1.02.

 

I think the pull/backswing combo is a big problem, I'll admit that, but only because it WASN'T changed from 1.02.

[Demise_SOK]

I agree with some of your points; I like absorb being invis; I like the icons; I like the heal/drain downgrade and I like the changes to DFA (that being, you cannot contort in midflight now nor take damage running over a burried blade- strangely, I killed someone who ran over my sunk DFA blade today though). But, otherwise this patch is a buch of crap.

[Zek]

Guys, they made the changes because a LOT of players requested them. But not like the way you request taking them back; these players talked about inbalances in an informed and mature manner, so Raven listened to them. These players were the majority(which you aren't in this issue), and most of them were NOT newbies. I doubt Raven will go back to 1.02 or take back many of the changes because 95% of the people who support it can't say so without filling the post with obscenities and insults towards Raven and other players. Grow up, and maybe you'll get what you want.

[Spider AL]

Blamer, you seem very tense. A lot of sarcasm... Not very adult, IMO. Not that it'll have any effect on you, of course. Just mentioning it.

 

What a joke, by "multiple moves" you must mean DFA, medium finisher, strong stance chop and strong stance sideswipe. That's all I ever had to use to come out the winner in a 1.02 fight.

 

And now, in 1.03, it's the pull/backswing. That's ALL. In NF battles however, sabre throw rules. If you believe that 1.03 has added any intricate sabre combat, you're not correct. The new sabre combat is only good in a 1 on 1 duel. If that's all you play, then good luck to you! But really, don't project your satisfaction with the patch onto the FFA and CTF players like myself and WD_Rage, who miss something that was intrinsic to the old 1.02... speed. The speed of the game was phenominal! It was breathtaking, exhilerating. The only way we can come close to that old speed in FFA now, is with the pull/backswing combo, and some very tricky ammo-management. All the fun has gone from my JO experience, and I'll do everything within my limited power to try to return the pace and fluidity to the game modes I love.

 

As for your comments about Drain/lightning etc... I'm a lightsider. I never play anything but light side. Now, even I admit that the dark side has been nerfed, while the improvements to absorb put us at a distinct advantage. That isn't right.

 

don't see how they messed up the guns/saber balance, the sabers do less damage but the attacks that bypass saber blocking, repeater and flak secondary, take huge amounts of ammo now.

 

The reason the balance is now ruined, is that before the patch, you could choose to use the sabre to kill someone, or use a gun. Now, you have as little as four shots per weapon to kill someone, and if you fail... THEN you're forced to use the sabre, or forced to run away and find ammunition. But the sabre's slow! And what if you don't have time to duel someone in a FFA? No, the balance is terrible now, all choice has been taken away, and turned into a monotonous shoot-shoot-shoot-shoot, pull, backswing, pull, backswing affair. And in CTF, as WD_Rage will attest, defending is tougher, attacking is a matter of judicious absorb and the balance there too, is gone.

 

All pace is gone. I used to kill ten-fifteen people a minute in the fast maps, mostly using my sabre. After the patch, I'm lucky to get five kills a minute. No pace, no excitement, only people running around backwards and using their bryar pistols a lot. Grah.

 

Oh well, there's my rant. My full opinions can be found in the "Post-patch: yes, I feel cheap" thread.

[Ferox]

sokar... the dfa move was unstopable even if you dodged it or jumped out of the way... many times i was clearly out of the way of the landing zone yet i still died, made no sense.

 

 

now after the patch i can attack them in mid flight and not have to worry about having no chance and dieing instantly always.

 

 

but i never complained about it much, infact i never got into the forums till after 1.3 mostly.. i would just NOT stand still and would always be circling and on the move so they couldnt dfa... it got them so pissed and i had a good laugh.

 

 

thats how i do it now adays with with the backstab.. although its tough because i enjoy getting in close and now you cant afford to.

[w1ggl3s]

First of Dfa Was Far from un stopable.

 

Infact i got killed more times DFAing Intelligent players then I did using a straight up broad swing.

 

There is a moment in 1.02 where dfa leaves the guy totaly open.

 

he can be pulled. Hit, kicked.

 

-------------------

 

Absorb is way to pwrfull

 

Invis absorb so over imbalances the game its not even funny.

 

Then to give the game an almost impenetrable defense.

 

Fast action chaotic games like saber/force only ctf goes right out the drain.

 

If you took backstab out. A player with absorb rolling around the map would never die.

 

The only way is to

 

A: get hella lucky with a pull and hope u kill him in one shot.

B: get hella lucky with a dfa and hope it dont get blocked

C: Get hella lucky with normal hit.

d: crowd him into a corner with all your buddies and turn around and spam backstab.

 

 

Seriously this 1.03 patch has slowed the tempo down of ctf games to a boring level. You can take so many chances now and not get burned its rediculas.

 

Do i like some things about 1.03?

 

Ya the ping pong from saber hits is gone.. No more baseball home runs from getting tapped by a saber.

 

The extra offensive moves are sweet.

 

To much saber collission.

 

Come on guys this isnt rl. we cant have everything perfect .

 

This is the internet, with thousands of variables we cant even see going on, not to mention various lag components.

 

most of the well timed shots i have in 1.03 glance harmlessly off.

 

I think Light/med/heavy should be 70/80/100

 

Light gets blocked a bit more then med

 

Med gets blocked a bit less then light and has a slight chance of stunning the aponent.

 

heavy Often stuns the oponent and can destroy the enemie in a big hit.

 

These weapons are weak now.

 

Im sorry but if a saber hit me. Ied be running like a mad man for the nearest bacta tank.

 

I think saber dmg should be huge. Being able to stun someone with a heavy hit should last long enough to get your combo off atleast.

 

 

Backing up should be slowed down considerably

 

Why game makers have not figured this out or balanced this Eons ago ill never figure out

 

Have you ever tried to walk backwards at the same speed of walking forwards? its un confertable. Ya cant see anything.

 

 

Rolling should take Force pwr.

 

Rolling should be used as Set ups. And for a quick get away .

 

Not roll around the map.

 

Absorb combined with roll ='s Inpenetrable defense.. only the highest speed can keep up with a good roller.

 

 

Absorb needs to either

 

a: Cost 2 times as much

B; when its on the mana cost should be much much greater.

c: should be taken off invis.

 

There are no down sides to absorb.

 

Easy recharge time.

Invis so players mistakenly give you mana.

Slow, and low pulse cost.

 

I meen come on cant anyone get a clue about that?

 

Heal/drain needs to be un nerfed

 

and whatever they did to Grip please change it back to normal.

 

Grip/drain is as valid as Absorb/forcepull

 

or absorb/heal

 

Or absorb/protect

or absorb/push

 

or absorb/invis

or absorb /speed

 

I hate it when players bitch to other players about how lame grip tactics are.

 

its a surprise attack Your supposed to die.

 

People cant stand Dieing/losing

 

SO they gotta complain tell they get there way.

 

This game for Ctf saber/force players has been slowed down so much it pains me to even log on.

 

1.02 is fast action, and paced.. NO ROOM FOR ERROR

 

You eff up? u pay the price.

 

I was chuckling to myself i got caught and some guy pulled me down and 30 guys hit me. Of course i died.

 

HAd that been 1.03?

 

I woulda lived, blocked them all, turned on absorb, used all the mana they gave me to heal myself back to full life, clicked the invis button and grabbed a buncha armor, ran to the flag grabbed it and run back to my base and turn it in.

 

You think 1.03 is tuff?

 

Go back and play 1.02. There was and never will be room for error.

 

I hope 1.04 is better balanced for us ctf saber/force only players.. I think ive come up with some viable solutions.

 

Sabers need to hit for more damage.. ANd they need to make the enemy pay. I dont like to play with my oponent. I like to kill or Die.. No room for mess ups.

 

Absorb needs to be nerfed (this comming from someone who has used absorb to live more often then not) it is a major imbalance to the game in ctf/saber/force only games.

 

Saber blocking and connection needs to be toned down alot.

 

Jump needs to be an option for those of us who tire of hitting jump twice.

 

My personal preference is to have dfa returned to its former way.

 

But the hit box and residual hit after the move is over, lessoned.

 

NOT THE PWR OF THE MAIN HIT

 

but that nasty hit u get if you time it wrong.

 

and back stab should be like the light backstab.

 

one oponent is effected.

 

I DO however think that backstab should be a Killer.

 

Do not nerf the backstab damage

 

Just take away the twirl. So that you have one hit, on one guy at one time. The guy your taking out.

 

This will leave the backstabber Open for attack. and people around him can not worry about getting hit from random sabers.

 

Dfa/backstab/themed, and light stance specials Should have no defense.

 

People should be able to easy hit them when they are doing those moves.

 

Walking backwards needs to be seriously Slowed down

 

rolling needs to take mana. Just like Jump.

 

Wether you add this to neutral pwrs or just give it a standard one bar of mana usage for all people

 

drain needs to take less of a mana hit.

 

Lighting needs to do more damage

 

Grip needs to be returned to its original thing( i think alot of grippers complained about that)

 

there are some of my ideas for 1.04

 

Wiggles

[Bl4de]

Originally posted by Lord Sokar

You see, after the game came out. People who were to dumb to move out of the way of someone doing a DFA jump complained, LOUDLY. There weren't that many, but they were loud.

 

So, in reponse, RAVEN launched operation 'SAVE NOOB'. They automated the blocking to about 90% of hits, they made backstab in blue stance less restricted and jacked up the kill on the move to about 100hp.

 

You can quickly identify these players by looking for the keywords 'stop whining about 1.03!!!!!'.

 

Now we have 10 million people playing... BACKWARDS!

 

Welcome to the new JK2!

 

Rejoice nOObs, this patch is for you!

 

Oh just shut the hell up. Post something constructful not childish nosense.

 

People who complain about 1.03, complain simply because they can't DFA 24/7, can't heal 24/7, and can't drain 24/7. That is sad yet true, reason why you all complain. You are so used to having 1 second matches against people, you just can't STAND having to fight a longer match. The other leading cause of all these crybabies is that they are too lazy to get good with the new patch.

 

You know, if all of you would stop complaing, droning mindlessly, saying the same damn arguement OVER and OVER again, as if we hadn't heard it enough, and spent your time PRACTICING not WHINING, you'd be as good as you were before, but no. Instead you must ruin these forums with your repetetive complaints. "Oh this patch sucks" with no real arguement to back it up. "Oh the saber is weaker" WHAT FUN IS A MATCH WHEN IT ENDS IN A FEW SECONDS!? "The patch ruins drain" well duh people, drain was way to over powered and you got used to it, now that it's changed it's more balanced, and you hate it because you can't play like you did before.

 

I love the patch, despite all the backslash spammers, I love it because I took the time to appreciate what Raven does, and I took the time to practice and get my skill back (which takes about a day). If you hate the patch, DON'T INSTALL IT, or simply go make your own patch. You seem to be criticizing Raven so much on such a horrible job they did. How about you go make your OWN patch and see how YOU do? Oh that's right you can't. You only know how to criticize not do things yourself. So until you can patch such a great game yourselves, howabout you go cry to your mothers, because we don't wanna hear about who took your bottles.

 

Oh yeah, whoever I quoted, um, yeah DFA whiners had something to whine about, nothing you can do against them. 1.03 whiners have nothing to be whining about. Besides, I think 1.03 whiners, whine a tad bit louder than DFA whiners did. Never in my life have I seen half of a community go completely STUPID over night because of a patch. I hope one day you realize how dumb you look in the eyes of others.

[the3vil1]

yuh all u 1.03 whining bitches stfu.

[Boreas]

We're not saying 1.02 was perfect, we are saying it was BETTER.

 

Atleast for anything other than dueling.

 

Hopefully raven will release a patch that will cater for both sides, so don't take offence that people are complaining, they just want Raven to hear us and and rectify the patch.

[Boreas]

Also, people aren't complaining because they can't spam moves. If they were, they would say "I don't like 1.03 because I can't spam DFA", but they are saying they don't like OTHER THINGS.

 

Please, do not ASSUME they dislike 1.03 because of the lack of DFA. Anyway, the DFA spammers can just spam backstab now so they won't be complaining.

[Lep]

When I said I didn't like any of the new changes I meant the most prevalent ones that impaired gameplay entirely.

 

For instance, I don't remember hearing anyone complain about drain and the like. There was a way to counter act everything in the game. What was wrong with seeing absorb? It was easier because I knew when not to use force on him, correct. Why should it be in? You can see me drain. I'm a dark side user, do I complain about it? No, I don't.

 

I have a friend who uses the light side only, and is one of the better players I've seen in JKII. People are always marvelling over how he's kicking their asses. He overcame what everyone else apparently bitched about (dark side force powers).

 

1 second battles? I have much longer battles with people of skill, or lets say, I HAD much longer battles. Now the battles are drawn out, true, but ALL seemingly end with that backwards stab. It's retarded.

 

And no, I don't want to do that move. I'm not interested in it.

 

You talk about there not being multiple moves to use in battles in 1.02. Let's see, I've seen skilled players use every saber stance there is and still be good. SO you take slow swings, they learn how to take several fast swings. Big deal. There are different styles. Some people used speed and absorb, some people used drain and pulls.

 

Everything in the game worked out WELL, that is my point in all of this.

 

What NEEDED to be changed? Nothing!

 

I've been drained, I had to avoid using force combat until I got some force back. Big deal. I've been kicked to death, I learned how to avoid it. Big deal. I could go on...

 

It's just pointless things like that that I don't understand.

 

The only people I saw on a server that weren't complaining today were the people using the new, famed backward stab. Coincidence? I doubt it.

[HandsomeDan]

Originally posted by Lord Sokar

You see, after the game came out. People who were to dumb to move out of the way of someone doing a DFA jump complained, LOUDLY. There weren't that many, but they were loud.

 

So, in reponse, RAVEN launched operation 'SAVE NOOB'. They automated the blocking to about 90% of hits, they made backstab in blue stance less restricted and jacked up the kill on the move to about 100hp.

 

You can quickly identify these players by looking for the keywords 'stop whining about 1.03!!!!!'.

 

Now we have 10 million people playing... BACKWARDS!

 

Welcome to the new JK2!

 

Rejoice nOObs, this patch is for you!

 

Game makers can't make games that are elitist, they have to appeal to everyone, as inexperienced at gaming as they might be. Personally, I think the only thing wrong with the game now is the new one hit wonder move. The blocking really isn't that bad, if you think about it jedi should be able to block alot of the attacks. Don't lose hope, this is the first patch, and the game hasn't even been out that long. Be greatful that Raven cares.

[[OSF]Zurk]

Right on, Dan. I think Raven wants a game that everybody can get into and have fun with so that, honestly, they can make a buck and build more games. They also want a balanced game that plays well so they patch. Personally, I hope this patch brings in a whole bunch of new players to the game. More people make for more servers, more variety, and just more of everything. After all, we're talking about a game that's been out for a grand total of 2 or 3 months. There's really no way to please everybody, so the developers are going to tweak the game to the point where they feel it's balanced. Give it time and enjoy the ride.

[posternutbag9d9]

Some of the responses make me very mad... To that person who thinks 95% of the players complained... where did you come up with that nonsense number? Do you not realize that there are 1000s upon 1000s more players than whom read this board and then email raven? They were not mature... They simply whined. DFA was SO easy to counter, I still do it all the time on 1.02 servers. Step aside, start a to the right heavy stance swing, then move it over the dfaer when they hit the ground. Heal is now changed so that 3 points in it gives you 25 health for 2/3 of your force. Now the weapon spammers kill you over and over... You just win a skilled fight? Now they can respawn and kill you fast since you cannot recover anymore. 2 of my friends own the game and do not come to the boards... they loaded up 1.03 and found it incredibly unfun. Now, all you need to do is spam lightning since people cannot heal. They did not add more med packs in the levels to make up for it... Where were my 2 friends in your 95% of people who wanted the entire way the game was played changed? Oh, I get it.. because YOU whined, you think 95% of the people are behind you... Typical ignorance.

[Demise_SOK]

I find it rather hard to believe that anyone who really plays this game alot in diferent game modes (FFA, CTF, JM, ect.) and isn't a backstab spammer could actually support this patch. By that I mean the changes to saber combat with the addition of autoblock and the fiddling with damage with sabers.

 

It is funny to read how moralistic some of you can get though.... that DFA spammer that first killed way back when must really have hurt your feelings.

[Tree]

Originally posted by Lep

JKII was one of my favorite games. I'm sure the single player has been improved by the new 1.03 patch, but tell me one thing:

 

Why did they have to change multiplayer in this patch? There were no complaints. It was going perfectly, in my opinion, and I was having a blast. I would play on saber only CTF servers for a couple of hours and have nothing but fun, even if I was getting my ass kicked by a more skilled player.

 

This is one of the few games in YEARS which has captured my attention. And guess what? It went all down the drain because some coders at Lucas Arts decided they liked it better another way. Obviously many people here don't like the way it turned out. All I hear on the servers are complaints.

 

There was a perfect balance before: on weapon servers you could use light saber or weapon, with the obvious downside of having a sword versus an automatic gun. There were no flaws, in my opinion.

 

To come out a winner in a light saber battle it took multiple moves, and two skilled players going at it would have to try everything in the book. Not the case anymore.

 

Point is: no one had a problem with the way it was. Why change it? Who decided that was a good idea? I'll tell you what, if something isn't changed, I will take this back to the store. It's as simple as that. I don't enjoy the game anymore, at all.

 

I went on to one of my favorite servers and found myself "back stabbed" 10 times in a row. I'm sure there are ways around it, but no one cares. Especially when you can get to the top of the list simply by turning on absorb, running, and doing that move over and over again.

 

I don't like ANY new changes. None of them. I liked being able to SEE absorb, I liked being able to KICK people in the face. I was killed plenty of times by kicks, I have been owned by plenty of players with absorb.

 

Where was the problem? I can tell you where it IS now. It's apparently with the multiplayer design team at LucasArts. Please make changes, quickly.

 

Yes there were complaints. The saber stances were not balanced.

Heavy stance was to powerful.

Light stance was useless.

DFA was way overpowered. Not to mention Force powers. I never used guns so I'm not gonna talk about it.

 

Your point is wrong. A lot of people were complaining. Go search through the archives of the forums pre-patch.

 

I think everyone agrees that they backswings need to be balanced.

 

Absorb is great. Pre-patch who would be dumb enough to try and use force powers on a person with absorb?

Maybe a padawan, it was useless. Most players just waited absorbers out since they had no clue as to how to use a saber.

 

ITS A DEFENSIVE POWER. It doesn't absorb to much and with heal nerfed theres not much they can do with what they absorbed. Hit them with your saber. It only absorbs force powers. Learn how to use a saber ionstead of trying to whore force powers.

 

You are obviously dark side only/strong stance whore. Time to develop some skill. Give light side a whirl.

[Demolisher]

I wish they had kept medium and lightstance the same. The forward lunge move sucks now and you can't really spin that well. I would have rather seen changes in single player like toning down the snipers and stuff. Also I want to see the freezing bug fixed

[posternutbag9d9]

Tree, What about heal? With heal doing 25 health for 2/3 of your force... I guess you must love dieing to weapon spammers instead of being able to flee and heal and then pull their weapons... Also, only people HERE complained... that does NOT represent the entire JK2 community by FAR... DFA was NOT overpowered.. again... all you needed to do was sidestep right and start a heavy stance swing and then kill them while they were stunned after jumping... I do it time and time again since I still play on the many 1.02 servers...