A better question: WHY did they change ANYTHING?

[Vanor]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Ahh so since this poll doesn't agree with your idea of the proportions of people who are satisfied with the patch, you simply ignore the percentages in this poll and declare that because previous polls substantiated your view, this one does too, regardless of how people voted?

 

I should of said, based on this, and other polls. IMO the needs tweaking is a postive vote, so the majorty of the people voting like the patch. We could go back and forth for all time on if that is true or not, and never change each others opinion. I in no way disregarded the poll on the front page. If it valdates my opinion or not, depends on how you interpet the data from the poll. I consider "needs tweaking" to be a postive thing, so more people like it then dislike it. You can arugue but you can't prove me wrong.

 

You left out three important words to preface that statement, and they are: "In my opinion." In my opinion, the wording is perfectly servicable, and the percentages are telling.

 

No actualy I didn't, that poll is poorly worded.

 

First off, nothing is truly perfict, so making that an option is a poor choice, few people will vote for that unless they truly believe it, there's a world of differance between "I really like it" and "it's perfict".

 

"Needs tweaking" is not at all clearly defined. Does this mean the patch is over all good, but needs some minor changes to be really good, or does it mean that the patch solves some problems, but needs some major tweaking to fix what it broke? This option is so poorly worded that it is nearly meaningless, it could be taken either as a postive vote or a negitive vote. Something a poll shouldn't have.

 

So the two options that could be used for a postive vote are poorly worded, that makes the whole poll subspect, and questionable. Unless of course they intended the poll to have 3 negitive options and only one postive one, in which case the poll is slanted and worthless.

 

The proper way to set up a poll for this patch on the JK2 site would be something like.

 

1 - I Love the patch, it fixes all the things I saw as problems.

2 - I like the patch, but it needs some minor changes to make it Great.

3 - I have mixed feelings about the patch, it needs a fair amount of work for it to make JK2 great.

4 - I dislike the patch, they need to make some major changes to make this game great again.

5 - I hate the patch, and won't install it, I just hope 1.04 is better.

 

That type of poll wouldn't be nearly as nebuious as the one they posted.

 

Of course you can say/believe what you wish, I like the patch, it is enjoyable so I honestly could care less if everyone else hates or not, because I don't have to load the next patch if Raven "fixes" everything and ruins my favored way of playing the game.

[Vestril]

I should of said, based on this, and other polls. IMO the needs tweaking is a postive vote, so the majorty of the people voting like the patch. We could go back and forth for all time on if that is true or not, and never change each others opinion. I in no way disregarded the poll on the front page. If it valdates my opinion or not, depends on how you interpet the data from the poll. I consider "needs tweaking" to be a postive thing, so more people like it then dislike it. You can arugue but you can't prove me wrong.

 

I'm sorry...what poll are you talking about? There is no poll in this thread. Is it a poll from a different thread? If so, which one? I was trying to figure it out, but I couldn't....

[Vanor]

Originally posted by Vestril

I'm sorry...what poll are you talking about? There is no poll in this thread. Is it a poll from a different thread? If so, which one? I was trying to figure it out, but I couldn't....

 

Here's a couple. This one is a prime example of a slanted poll, but it still shows that the people here are at least split on it.

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51586

 

And here's another with a large sample to consider.

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51248

 

A 3rd one, with few votes.

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52046

 

One purely about saber fighting.

 

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52187

 

Well i think that's enough, undoubtly many people voted in all 4 polls, so they can't be added up. But those are the polls I was refering to.

[Bl4de]

Originally posted by Vestril

 

Or its called a boring game...I'm pretty sure I don't have attention span problems, only because I'm capable of sitting down on a train and reading for 5 or 6 hours without getting out of my seat....also I was a pretty good student back in the HS day

 

If you start daydreaming while playing a game you have some SERIOUS issues. No one in their right mind "day dreams" while fighting an opponent simply because they can't kill them in 1 second. If anything longer matches keeps you interested more, read my post to Demise. Besides, did Vader defeat Luke in 5 seconds or even 30? No, he didn't attack him once and kill him. He didn't backslash or DFA either but the point is, you're probably in a minority that gets bored while playing. How can that happen? Maybe you're just exaggerating, it's just not believable.

[Vestril]

Oh, ok, you guys seemed tobe referring to a single poll 'poorly worded' and whatnot, which is why I was confused. Thanks for clearing it up

[Vestril]

Originally posted by Bl4de

 

If you start daydreaming while playing a game you have some SERIOUS issues. No one in their right mind "day dreams" while fighting an opponent simply because they can't kill them in 1 second. If anything longer matches keeps you interested more, read my post to Demise. Besides, did Vader defeat Luke in 5 seconds or even 30? No, he didn't attack him once and kill him. He didn't backslash or DFA either but the point is, you're probably in a minority that gets bored while playing. How can that happen? Maybe you're just exaggerating, it's just not believable.

 

No...I'm not. Its boring. Comparing the new patch to real sword fighting is bull. In real sword fighting it requires skill to lead your opponent into opening himself up so you can attack him. In this game its all a matter of who had luckier timing when the uber-blocking failed.

 

The way the game was set up at first, you could lead people into attacking and getting their sabers out of the way so you could attack them. Now their saber goes wide and you attack and by some miracle you get blocked by the guys hilt or something.

 

I was exagerating to an extent, I still think about the game, its just that my focus isn't 100%--its hard to stay focused when the only attacks that hit are by random chance. The most difficult people I've played against are light stancers who just twirl around. Back in the day you could just give them a slash and slow them down, but now they basically have this blocking shield twirling around them, and the only way I can beat them is by some random shot getting in, or waiting for them to lunge/backslash so I can slash at their unprotected side.

 

I'm not talking about one second kills. I'm talking about the difference between pointlessly long, and intelligently long. I had long matches sometimes prepatch, they were with good people and they kept me REALLY interested. Now its more about chance than anything else.

[Vanor]

Originally posted by Vestril

Oh, ok, you guys seemed tobe referring to a single poll 'poorly worded' and whatnot, which is why I was confused. Thanks for clearing it up

 

I was, the poll on the front page of this site, is poorly worded.

[WD_Rage]

Originally posted by AV_JC_Frost

But we have to remember that it IS their game, and it is theirs to tweak. They may have had a more far-reaching vision for this patch than what actually came out, and could be working on 1.04 as we speak.

 

Yes, they did make it, however, WE paid for it. Therefore, we have a say in what WE want OUR game to be. As for their vision, I have a feeling their vision only goes so far as to help the newbs that do not want to learn the game. I can understand that, but there are more than those few people that play this game.

 

As for the patch, I despise what it did to competitive play. Since I'm not a saberist, I cannot say anything about that aspect of the game. I can say, however, that this patch has split the community.

 

It seems to me that the champions of 1.03 are the ones that do not want to learn the game and learn how to become good at it. I found nothing wrong with 1.02 except for the low ammounts of ammo (and of course the extreme difference between JK1 FF Sabers and JK2 FF Sabers).

 

As far as DFA was concerned, the hit box should've been the only thing tweaked. It was easy to spot, easy to dodge, and easy to counter. Too bad some couldn't figure out what to look for.

[Spider AL]

I consider "needs tweaking" to be a postive thing, so more people like it then dislike it. You can arugue but you can't prove me wrong.

 

That's why civilised people use the words "In my opinion," V. Frankly though, with your wild opinionated nonsense, I think you're doing a good job of proving yourself wrong. As for "needs tweaking," the option implies that there are problems to be fixed in the next patch. I, and many other people who despise the patch, want to see the changes for the better made in 1.04, therefore, we wish it to be tweaked. If someone is satisfied with the patch, happy with the patch, they are less likely to request changes in the next patch, therefore less of them will vote for the "tweaking" option. Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

 

No actualy I didn't, that poll is poorly worded.

 

Ohhh I'm sorry Mr. GOD, I didn't realise an infallible one such as yourself, whose opinions are fact the moment your divine mind conceives of them, posted on the JKii.net forums.

 

I like the patch, it is enjoyable so I honestly could care less if everyone else hates or not

 

Firstly the correct expression is "couldn't care less," and you just implied that you care an appreciable amount if everyone else hates the patch. Secondly, it's painfully obvious that you do NOT care about the opinions of others, and twist even simple poll statistics in a feeble attempt to support your dubious and self-centred perspective on the matter. Kthxbye.

[Vanor]

Originally posted by Spider AL

As for "needs tweaking," the option implies that there are problems to be fixed in the next patch. I, and many other people who despise the patch, want to see the changes for the better made in 1.04, therefore, we wish it to be tweaked. If someone is satisfied with the patch, happy with the patch, they are less likely to request changes in the next patch, therefore less of them will vote for the "tweaking" option. Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

 

Untrue, I personaly love the patch, but I voted "could use tweaking" because I reconize that it did harm things like CTF play. Given the choice between perfection and "could use tweaking" I think most reasonable people would pick the later, as the former is unatainable. I doubt that anyone truly considers this patch to be perfict, but given the poorly worded poll, that is the only option given to people who truly love this patch. The tweaking option neither states dislike or like for the patch, just that it could be improved. I have yet to see anything that couldn't be improved, so that option really can't be used to show favor or disfavor for the patch, only a sense that it could be improved.

 

Ohhh I'm sorry Mr. GOD, I didn't realise an infallible one such as yourself, whose opinions are fact the moment your divine mind conceives of them, posted on the JKii.net forums.

 

I see, rather then attack my arugment logicaly you attack me... That's fine.

 

If you take a intro course to political science, you will learn that there are wrong ways, and right ways to word a poll to avoid them being slanted. This isn't a matter of opinon, but a well established fact of political science, something polls are based on. A poll that has vague options, or ones that can be interputed different by different people is a poor option in a poll. The field of political science, requires a great deal of education on how to properly word a poll, so this isn't really a question of opinion, but rather a statement of the right or wrong way to do things. Just like there's a right and wrong way to build a house, there's a right and wrong way to word a poll. This is a technaly established fact, not opinion.

 

Secondly, it's painfully obvious that you do NOT care about the opinions of others, and twist even simple poll statistics in a feeble attempt to support your dubious and self-centred perspective on the matter. Kthxbye.

 

Untrue again, but apprently you are the one who is a God as you can see into my mind and soul and know what I want and think.

 

I've actualy supported people on this form who ask for reasonable fixes to the problems with the 1.03 patch, such as the lack of ammo in CTF games. And I have sugested that the blocking could be toned down, as well as the damage from sabers could be increased.

[filter]

Originally posted by Vestril

 

No...I'm not. Its boring. Comparing the new patch to real sword fighting is bull. In real sword fighting it requires skill to lead your opponent into opening himself up so you can attack him. In this game its all a matter of who had luckier timing when the uber-blocking failed.

 

The way the game was set up at first, you could lead people into attacking and getting their sabers out of the way so you could attack them. Now their saber goes wide and you attack and by some miracle you get blocked by the guys hilt or something.

 

I was exagerating to an extent, I still think about the game, its just that my focus isn't 100%--its hard to stay focused when the only attacks that hit are by random chance. The most difficult people I've played against are light stancers who just twirl around. Back in the day you could just give them a slash and slow them down, but now they basically have this blocking shield twirling around them, and the only way I can beat them is by some random shot getting in, or waiting for them to lunge/backslash so I can slash at their unprotected side.

 

I'm not talking about one second kills. I'm talking about the difference between pointlessly long, and intelligently long. I had long matches sometimes prepatch, they were with good people and they kept me REALLY interested. Now its more about chance than anything else.

 

 

maybe you just suck!!!!

as far as teh back jab move

i can easily counter the back jab move while getting up. some times it gets me but about 60% of the time i can avoid it.

[Vestril]

maybe you just suck!!!!

 

Thank you for the extremely well thought out reply

[vas]

I didnt get the chance to play the earlier version but i have to agree that it looks as well as feels pretty stupid when people are running around backwards to try and execute a move that will most probably kill anyone it is used on. This game has enourmous potential and its a shame to see they have done this, all we can do is hope it is fixed (im sure jedi masters would not have tought there padiwan learners to do a backwards move as the ultimate in skilled fighting moves.. do u?? sorry had to put that in.)

The only other thing that anoys me is the fact that someone can come up to me with a rocket launcher or whatever that gun is and kill me in an instant, it just doesnt seem like even game play.. Yes.. thats why i stick to servers with guns disabled.

 

Anyways this game is still awesome and if they fix it in later patches it will only get better, well that should be the thinking of patch makers.. New Patch, Better Game, We can only hope

[Spider AL]

I personaly love the patch, but I voted "could use tweaking" because I reconize that it did harm things like CTF play

 

That's because "needs tweaking" is the sensible option, and many people who hate the changes the patch has wrought would have voted for this option, because it is constructive. This invalidates your silly argument that most people who voted, are "happy" with the patch.

 

I think it's about time I asked: Could you define exactly what it is you mean by "most people are happy with the patch?"

 

Since you don't think it's perfect yourself, what does "happy" mean exactly? What do you mean when you say "I'm happy with the patch?" Do you mean "I don't hate everything about the patch" or "I only dislike some of the things about the patch" or "I think the patch is mostly good?"

 

When you say "Most people are happy with the patch" you could mean ANYTHING, so I have to say it's your argument that's nebulous, poorly worded and subject to interpretation, not the poll. The poll is quite, quite clear, that the VAST majority of people think WORK NEEDS TO BE DONE. The vast majority of people (yourself included, so you say) think that another patch is needed to correct the problems this patch introduced.

 

rather then attack my arugment logicaly you attack me... That's fine.

 

Actually I attack your arrogant assumptions that your ideas are somehow the "correct" ideas. Once you get that through your head, everything will run a lot smoother.

 

Just like there's a right and wrong way to build a house, there's a right and wrong way to word a poll. This is a technaly established fact, not opinion.

 

What rubbish. There are "better" and "worse" ways of building houses, and of wording polls. If YOU take a course in architecture and a course in public relations, you'll realise this fact. Your OPINION, your dubious and frankly suspect opinion which you seem to think is divine truth, is that the poll could have been improved. I disagree, as I think it sends the perfect message to Raven and represents the truth: That work needs to be done on the game. Do you disagree with that? I think not, judging by your previous assertions that you realise there are problems.

 

but apprently you are the one who is a God as you can see into my mind and soul and know what I want and think.

 

Oh it doesn't take a god to see that you believe yourself to be the chosen one, with the legendary gift of opinion-which-is-fact. The truth is of course, that you're just an average joe.

 

I've actualy supported people on this form who ask for reasonable fixes to the problems with the 1.03 patch, such as the lack of ammo in CTF games. And I have sugested that the blocking could be toned down, as well as the damage from sabers could be increased.

 

Good! now go back to doing that. Hopefully you realise that making wierd blanket statements like "most people are happy with the patch," you're setting the cause of improving the game back.

[Vanor]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Good! now go back to doing that. Hopefully you realise that making wierd blanket statements like "most people are happy with the patch," you're setting the cause of improving the game back.

 

I'm not going to bother responding to your other points, there simply isn't any reason to.

 

I'll gladly support any reasonable changes to make this game fun for everyone. Things like ammo in CTF and such.

 

My statement was in responce to another blanket statement, that said that most people hate this patch. Blanket statements like that are just if not more harmfull. And for the final time, it seems to me that most people are in fact happy with this patch, and it's the same group of people who post how horable it is. But there's simply no way of truely knowing this.

 

But there is no way that my saying that most people are happy with this patch, will effect Raven's stance on the next patch, if there is going to be one, which acording to something someone else posted, won't happen. This is of course 2nd hand, and no one from Raven has backed this claim up that I know of. But nothing I say will in fact harm the chances of getting this game "fixed" as you see it needs to be. However the attuide of people who hate this patch may very well destroy any chance of Raven doing what they wish. When someone says something like "I hope you fall fall on a dildo and get AIDS" in responce to the patch, that doesn't give Raven much reason to bother listening to this comunity anymore.

 

The game came out, and people whined and bitched about things they disliked. Raven listened to this, and made the patch acording to what they heard. Now people whine and bitch about the changes Raven made, personaly I couldn't blame them in the least if they didn't bother making more patches. I hope they do, but would understand if they decided to tell the JK2 comunity to F*** Off.

 

I hope that doesn't happen, but it sorta seems like that is the road we're going down right now.

[Spider AL]

I'm not going to bother responding to your other points

 

Then you leave people with no choice but to conclude that you are unable to supply logical rebuttals to them.

 

there is no way that my saying that most people are happy with this patch, will effect Raven's stance on the next patch

 

Everything people say will have an effect. The changes made in 1.03 were due to the weight of public opinion. You made a false, and irresponsible statement, laden with inaccuracies. There is never an excuse for that. You say your blanket statement was in response to ANOTHER blanket statement, without providing a quote. If there IS such a statement, that would mean you were just as bad as the person you're trying to rebuke, not that you're excused.

 

The game came out, and people whined and bitched about things they disliked. Raven listened to this, and made the patch acording to what they heard. Now people whine and bitch about the changes Raven made, personaly I couldn't blame them in the least if they didn't bother making more patches.

 

I fail to see your contrast... The method that worked so well for the sabres-only fanatics may well be the only thing that grabs Raven's attention this time. Let's face it, Raven rewarded whiners in 1.03. Maybe all the ill-conceived fools who are ranting inanely and insultingly about 1.03 will tip the scales in our favour. Who knows?

 

Certainly, the duelling is excellent, much improved now, but CTF and FFA are degraded by 1.03's ruleset. Tweaks are necessary, as any silly fellow can see.

 

I'll gladly support any reasonable changes to make this game fun for everyone. Things like ammo in CTF and such.

 

There are many threads in the game feedback forum that require all the support, ideas and participation they can get. Go forth and give it instead of making the problem worse.

[Vanor]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Then you leave people with no choice but to conclude that you are unable to supply logical rebuttals to them.

 

No, just don't wish to spend the energy defending something that is for the most part meaningless. I will admit that I stated my case a bit stronger then I intended to, but I will stand by my point of view. But none of that really matters, so there's no point in fighting over it.

 

Let's face it, Raven rewarded whiners in 1.03. Maybe all the ill-conceived fools who are ranting inanely and insultingly about 1.03 will tip the scales in our favour. Who knows?

 

I'm sorry but I dissagree, there were many people who whined about how things worked in 1.02, but there were also many well thought out and reasoned debates on what was wrong with the game. I believe that Raven listened to the later, not the former.

 

"Raven this sucks, I hope you die!" Does no one any good. "Raven here's the issues I and others have with the game, and how we think you should fix them" on the other hand does quite a bit of good, and can be used by the developers to help improve the game.

 

I've been around these boards since before JK2 was released, I saw both the whining and reasonable issues with how the game was at release. Raven may of rewarded the whiners, but only because they happend to feel the same way as how everyone else felt.

 

Certainly, the duelling is excellent, much improved now, but CTF and FFA are degraded by 1.03's ruleset. Tweaks are necessary, as any silly fellow can see.

 

There are many threads in the game feedback forum that require all the support, ideas and participation they can get. Go forth and give it instead of making the problem worse.

 

Yes and no. A silly fellow who hasn't played CTF really wouldn't be able to see the problems with it. Myself I've taken the word of the more reasonable people who have posted about the problems with it, that there is a problem at all. I wouldn't know if there was or not. I will support reasonable tweaks in the game, as long as it doesn't harm the style of play I favor.

 

But I do find myself having trouble supporting that side of the fight, considering the amount of nasty comments and name calling that has happend. Something that didn't happen nearly as much by the people who had problems with JK2 before the patch.

[YoDa2k2]

What i Like:

 

-Strong stance not being a ONE HIT kill thing anymore

-The new maps

-Makeing DFA harder to use

 

What i dont like:

-Backstab one hit kill move MY GOD! I WOULD TRADE DFA WITH THIS ANYDAY!

-Blocking, i think in MP the blocking was too random... but in THIS patch blocking is TOO predicable! i meen its just anoying how easy and frequent blocking is!

[Spider AL]

No, just don't wish to spend the energy defending something that is for the most part meaningless.

 

I don't think the debate over the desire to fix the obvious problems of 1.03 is meaningless. I think it's important for the success of a game I enjoy.

 

there were many people who whined about how things worked in 1.02, but there were also many well thought out and reasoned debates on what was wrong with the game.

 

As there are now, for the anti-1.03 changes lobby. Perhaps you haven't read them... Aiee's thread on the feedback forum is one, my own "post-patch: Yes I feel cheap" thread is another. Lots of great ideas have been submitted over the time since 1.03's release, and I hope Raven listens to them.

 

Raven may of rewarded the whiners, but only because they happend to feel the same way as how everyone else felt.

 

You're making gross generalisations again my friend, just because a vocal group you happen to agree with posted some threads, that doesn't make them "everyone."

 

I will support reasonable tweaks in the game, as long as it doesn't harm the style of play I favor.

 

Have you been to all the lucid threads that need support yet? You keep saying you'd support lucid suggestions to improve CTF, but I still don't see where you have supported such suggestions.

 

I do find myself having trouble supporting that side of the fight, considering the amount of nasty comments and name calling that has happend. Something that didn't happen nearly as much by the people who had problems with JK2 before the patch.

 

Ahh so that's why. Well let me tell you friend, that there were some really nasty people lobbying for the changes made in 1.03. They're the same people that are now telling the anti-1.03 changes lobby to "ShuT uP!11," "ST0P Pl@yInG THeN j00 WHINORZ!!111 ahahahah ah" and/or "GO Aw@Y!!!11" They insulted gun-users, they complained about everything, and belittled anyone of an opposing viewpoint to themselves. I fear you were looking at that particular lobby through rose-tinted spectacles of bias, and did not see the dark heart of it.

[WD_Rage]

Originally posted by YoDa2k2

What i Like:

 

-Strong stance not being a ONE HIT kill thing anymore

-The new maps

-Makeing DFA harder to use

 

What i dont like:

-Backstab one hit kill move MY GOD! I WOULD TRADE DFA WITH THIS ANYDAY!

-Blocking, i think in MP the blocking was too random... but in THIS patch blocking is TOO predicable! i meen its just anoying how easy and frequent blocking is!

 

Strong stance was never a one hit kill (OHK). One move of the strong stance was a OHK, and that was DFA. As far as DFA is concerned, the ONLY thing needing tweaking was the hitbox. Other than that, it was a very, very easy move to spot, dodge, and counter. I loved DFA spammers because then I could show them that their move, in reality, sucked. As for me, I used it only as a finishing move.

 

I think there should be a OHK move, however, it ought to be hard to acheive. Yes, the blocking does suck, it's idiotic. I went to one of the local software stores on Saturday to get the release date of UT2003, and there on an XBox was Obi-Wan. I am tremendously glad that game did not hit the PC, however, I couldn't help but watch two people duel. It appeared to me that they had to do their own blocking. I thought "Wow. Now THAT's gotta take some skill."

 

Oh well, my area in JK2 was guns, of which I will not even touch because I have already written the equivilent of 2 novels on this forums about that subject.

[Demise_SOK]

Spider AL wrote:

 

"They insulted gun-users, they complained about everything, and belittled anyone of an opposing viewpoint to themselves. I fear you were looking at that particular lobby through rose-tinted spectacles of bias, and did not see the dark heart of it."

 

Hhmmmm, could this be the hypothetical 1/4 of JK2 players and surfers of this website that voted the patch as perfect?

 

In my opinion this small constituency is the whiny, NF duel server players.

[Talon_of_BHG]

Originally posted by Bl4de

 

In 1.02 all the person had to do if they attacked, missed and someone else started attacking them was turn themselves with the saber still on the ground and it will kill them. Trust me, that's how bad the DFA was, now it is JUST fine the way it should have been, unable to turn when you hit the ground. Now it renders them vunerable, before the patch all they had to do was turn and it would either kill them or scare them off. I've tried it to see the hit range, and also got it tried ON. Hurts alot.

 

 

ummm I have never had any problem with DFA being spammed. There are any number of ways to counter it in 1.02. In 1.03 I have been in games where they use the DFA and i come up from side and lay my saber precisely accross the back of their neck and he just got up and did it again. We did this 3 times in a row with me chopping the back of his neck with my saber. He didnt die. Maybe its just me but he should have died the first time. In 1.02 he would have at least taken enough damage to give him second thoughts about trying it again.

 

In 1.02 there were counters to every technique or strategy. In 1.03 there is no need for techniques or strategies (other than absorb and backstab associated ones) in the first place.

[Vanor]

Originally posted by Spider AL

I don't think the debate over the desire to fix the obvious problems of 1.03 is meaningless. I think it's important for the success of a game I enjoy.

 

I agree, I was saying that in referance to the whole "what does tweaked mean" debate we were having. Making the 1.04 patch more acceptable to more people is a good thing and worth discussing.

 

As there are now, for the anti-1.03 changes lobby. Perhaps you haven't read them...

 

I would apprecate it if you would stop making assuptions about what I mean, or taking what I said out of context. I never said that all the anti-1.03 posts where unreasonable bitch fests. There have been serveral good posts on this issue.

 

You're making gross generalisations again my friend, just because a vocal group you happen to agree with posted some threads, that doesn't make them "everyone."

 

I think you misunderstod how I ment everyone, I didn't mean it as in everyone who played JK2, but as in everyone who had issues with JK2 play and posted about it.... In this case everyone = those posting about problems how 1.02 played, not everyone who playes JK2.

 

Have you been to all the lucid threads that need support yet? You keep saying you'd support lucid suggestions to improve CTF, but I still don't see where you have supported such suggestions.

 

I have enough to do durning the day that I have to limit myself to one of the forms on this site, I don't visit the other forms here much, especialy considering how the game feedback was filled with so much pointless "Raven SUXZ!" posts. I did however throw my support for CTF players on this form. WD_Something for example. It was in the "Some detales about the patch" sticky. I'm sorry you missed my posts, but just because you didn't see them, doesn't mean you should assume I didn't do it.

 

Ahh so that's why. Well let me tell you friend, that there were some really nasty people lobbying for the changes made in 1.03. They're the same people that are now telling the anti-1.03 changes lobby to "ShuT uP!11," "ST0P Pl@yInG THeN j00 WHINORZ!!111 ahahahah ah" and/or "GO Aw@Y!!!11" They insulted gun-users, they complained about everything, and belittled anyone of an opposing viewpoint to themselves. I fear you were looking at that particular lobby through rose-tinted spectacles of bias, and did not see the dark heart of it.

 

Perhaps, I tend to disgreard any post that is not much more then brainless yelling. I did not and do not say that the people who favored 1.03 are blameless, they can be as rude and stupid as anyone else. I think they should get a small bit of leway, considering how many times people who had ligitimit problems with DFA, were told "Learn to play you n00b." no matter how well thought out or reasonable their post was. That isn't to say they should be excused, but I can understand a bit of payback.

 

There isn't a "dark heart" on either side IMO, just people wanting the game to suit their play style best. People didn't like how 1.02 played, so they commented about it here, some reasonably and some not so reasonably. Now we have the same thing, but before the patch came out, there was much less of the "I hope Raven gets AIDS" type posts... or people posting a script to be used to crash the 1.03 servers.

 

All in all, it seems to me, that the anti-1.03 camp is filled with more brainless whiners then the pro-1.03 camp is, which is sad, as it really hurts the cause of those wanting reasonable changes to the game. But what ever the people were like before, doesn't change the fact that I have trouble supporting a group that either welcomes or at least doesn't speak against people wishing human beings to get AIDS, or people looking to ruin the fun of other people by crashing their server.

[Agen]

Lot's of mixed results must mean something........ they got somethings right nad got osmethings wrong

[Spider AL]

I didn't mean it as in everyone who played JK2, but as in everyone who had issues with JK2 play and posted about it.... In this case everyone = those posting about problems how 1.02 played, not everyone who playes JK2.

 

The word "everyone" doesn't automatically mean that! Could you be more specific please?

 

All in all, it seems to me, that the anti-1.03 camp is filled with more brainless whiners then the pro-1.03 camp is,

 

Do you have actual numbers to back this up with, or is it just an assumption? I think it may just be an assumption.

 

In 1.02 there were counters to every technique or strategy. In 1.03 there is no need for techniques or strategies (other than absorb and backstab associated ones) in the first place.

 

This is exactly, exactly exactly the point. The game's been SHRUNK.