Is there no honour left?

[Jubatus]

I can tell some of you didn't read my entire post before responding, but I'm used to misunderstandings occuring nomatter how well I try to formulate my posts. Alas, english is not my native language.

 

Seems to many of you that honour was a wrong phrase to use; some think it out of date, others that is has no place in a video game. Very well, I will update it to the phrase 'fair play' for your convenience.

 

To say that fair play has no place in a video game is exactly the kind of response I was expecting, but to me a duel is still 2 opponents matching their skills against one another regardless of the medium, through which they do it.

 

Exaggerating points of argument to throw back in the face of the source is common too; what I prefer to call a shallow crowd pleaser. Yes, I bow to my opponent before fighting. It takes about 2 seconds and then the fight is on. I do not engage in some sort of lengthy dialogue as I know others are waiting their turn.

 

Just because the medium for these duels are an online video game putting us anonymously at a digital distance to each other it shouldn't go to follow that we can't add a little flavour to the game by observing we're playing jedi knights.

 

And you keep arguing a similarity between war and duelling. The two are not the same by far.

 

But be this all as it may, the majority of you are confirming my real point.

 

Jubatus

[Kanubis]

The term 'free-for-all' is a contradiction of honour. What is needed, IMHO, is for the spectators in a 'duel' game to be able to run around as 'ghost' characters so they can practise moves, etc.

 

I think the bowing is good, do it myself and respect it, but if someone attacks me I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, they might be new (which, unlike many of you, isn't a crime in my book). But I hate it when people have typed conversations before fighting when there are duelers queing up. It's selfish.

 

Just because the medium for these duels are an online video game putting us anonymously at a digital distance to each other it shouldn't go to follow that we can't add a little flavour to the game by observing we're playing jedi knights.

 

Totally, but people can't bitch if there opponent doesn't agree.

 

Also, what I've said before is this: the sith have displayed very little honor in the films - the very existence of force lightning suggests this. Therefore, in all honesty, A sith that jumps a bowing opponent is acting more 'filmy' to me than one who returns the respect.

[Spider AL]

I answered no to all but question 2, so hoorah, Jubatus thinks I'm honourable!.. I guess.

 

I deliberately knock people over, and then attack them... because that's a legitimate attack. If you kick someone and they fall over, it's all part of the duel to attack them while they're prone.

 

And, I don't kill people while they're typing and I expect my clan-mates to excercise similar restraint, but if I'm typing and someone kills me, I don't label them "evil" for all time. It's a game, after all.

 

Anyway, honour to me is mainly a matter of never attempting to hack the game, never insulting people etc.

[[CO] HellmasteR]

I usually bow, and do not try to force it on others, but I will attack ruthlessly using every trick in the book (not including one hitter) afterwards. Its not wrong to hit someone when theyre down, its legitimate, and in the character of a dark jedi. I like to be methodical, and slow in my fights, but not hold them up on purpose.

[Swingman]

I don't think anyone misunderstood your post Jubatus. I read every single post all the way through and I think everyone understood the post fairly well.

 

Bowing, typing and all this "honorable / fair play" stuff drags out duels. Even if it's by a few seconds.

 

Patience is not a virtue with many players waiting to duel. If you're last in big line waiting to duel, that 2 seconds it takes to bow each time adds up to 10 sec or more in big duel servers.

 

Your post would have gotten better responses if you wouldn't have added not attacking people when they fall over. That is part of the game is to knock people down to improve your chances of winning the fight.

 

Also, I don't spam moves like DFA and Backstab but doing it isn't dishonorable, it's BORING. big difference. So, don't label it as dishonorable

 

BTW, i don't spam those moves but just cause they are crap doesn't make them dishonorable

 

Fleeing a fight is cowardly and should only be done if you are only running away for a short period of time and improves your chances of winning the fight aka hit and run, hit and run tactics. Otherwise, it's is very selfish cause it's prolonging the duel unnecessarily.

 

I agree that attacking people while typing or saber is down is dishonorable and people who do that continually should be booted. I've accidently killed someone typing when i was swinging at someone standing right next to the person so one offense should be forgiven because it's usually a mistake, but someone who goes after typers should be banned.

[zenroth]

I always bow or nod, I generally will back off and turn off my saber and let my fellow warrior get out of the pit, or off the ground, or type or wait to unlag,or return to the keyboard.

 

I will also not generally fight someone who will not bow or nod, I will dodge till they do so, or I will leave the server. I care little for there disrespect and generally most other duelers seem to agree.

 

So I guess I fall into the honerable cat.

[GooglyMoogly]

People suck.

 

I think in *most* cases the style of play is directly linked to the maturity of the player. There are, have been and always will be players that just wanna win at any cost. I find it much easier to just avoid players that employ strategies I find boring, lame etc..

 

I'd bet if the ages of players were posted above their heads in the game you'd see what I mean. The younger crowd is less tempered and more agressive to the point of being oblivious as to how their actions may affect other people.

 

It's a game...have fun...let the ganks be ganks..they can't help it. Their payback will come as they mature in life and realize just how foolish they have been.

 

Seek out players that suit your style as much as you can. Sooner or later the only people left playing this game will be the ones that understand the concepts of honor, respect and good sportsmanship.

[Nathan Wind]

did i read correctly that someone advocated a black list?

 

wow, so all the people who dont follow your code of honor are "commies?"

 

 

if a game needs to be based on the "honor" "system" to balance it out, then there is truely a flawed game.

 

you can you even suggest this?

[Nathan Wind]

google, that is moronic.

 

DIDNT SOMEBODY POST THIS AS THE SABERIST CODE or some such nonsense.

 

this idea is laughable. impose a second set of "invisible" rules in order to have a fair fight. wow...

[GooglyMoogly]

Umm....I'm not suggesting we "impose" anything on anyone. I simply stated that when I see people spamming moves I avoid them. It doesn't even have to be spam...I fought this one guy last night and all he did was run circles around me....I got tired of chasing him down so I stopped fighting him.

 

The rules of FFA state "kill your opponents to score points"...it doesn't say anything about how that should be done. So the play style is left to the players to decide.

 

Much like the rules of any sport are to "score points", yet there are other rules about how you CAN score those points. In rl sports there are PENALTIES for poor sportsmanship... unfortunately this game has no way to impose them so the players must do it themselves. This is all we are talking about here.

 

There is nothing wrong with my stating a preference for the types of players I like to engage.

[Nathan Wind]

that is silly.

 

when i enter a game and i am choosing what powers i want to use, the last thing on my mind should be worrying if i will be unfair if i use this config and strategy or that one.

 

leaving game play balance up to a "gentlemens' agreement," or "maturity level" is redicilous.

[GooglyMoogly]

I don't do that either Nathan...I decide when and where to use those powers thats all.

 

Games are about having fun..my idea of fun is not the same as yours. If I ever run into you in a game and don't have fun fighting you *for any reason* I am less likely to want to fight you again. Just as you may find blazing around and getting as many kills as you can fun, I find having a good fight with nice moves fun. To each his own.

[Swingman]

zenroth, that is the stupidest thing I've heard on the forums. And that is saying a lot.

 

Why wouldn't you fight someone unless they bow or nod?

 

My 5 Reasons Why that Is Dumb

 

1) Newbies or people that don't care for wasting time bowing or nodding aren't going to do it most likely (and they're still honorable fighters)

 

2) People that don't waste time bowing or nodding are more considerate to the people have to wait to fight (in duel mode)

 

3) Even in Karate, which is usually considered honorable, where people bow before matches, they don't take their eyes off the opponent cause who trusts somebody they are about to fight (i don't think you can bow without looking down in JK2)

 

4) You're limiting yourself to only fight a smaller percentage of opponents then if you fought them anyway. Thus, I'm sure you're missing the chance to hone your skills against some of the elite saberists

 

5) Bowing or nodding does not say that this person is honorable. You can bow and nod all you want but if you kill someone when they stop to type, you're still dishonorable.

 

I'm not trying to flame, I listed my reasons for making that comment.

[Swingman]

I know you said you don't kill people typing and i'm not saying you're dishonorable. I'm saying that other people out there probably bow but still will kill people anyway they can, even if it's stabbing someone in the back (aka killing a typer).

 

Just to clarify

[mIRC]

Originally posted by Jubatus

This is strictly about no weapons/no force duel servers, but feel free to read on even if you don't play on such.

 

I think it highly likely that the way you play this game reflects what kind of person you are IRL. And if that is truly the case then humanity is filled with dishonourable personalities, who, through fear of being themselves against the masses, have taken the universal rule to heart; you have to be an a**hole to get by in this world. The rule that scoring points and winning is the object of any game in life instead of the game itself.

 

The usual counter'argument' for this is usually that I must be a loser to speak such loser talk. In your eyes, I am.

 

But bear with me here; this is not a post whining about losing but stating the fact this game is filled to the brim with dishonourable players ruining alot of the fun.

 

Gonna list up some dishonourable acts and behaviours and the more you can answer yes to, the more dishonourable you are from my point of view.

 

1. Do you attack people when they're in the introductional bow, afk, typing and/or momentarily lagged out?

 

2. Do you attack people when they're knocked to the ground?

 

3. Do you flee excessively, hide from your opponent or in some other way drag out the fight even though you know several spectators are waiting their turn to duel?

 

4. Do you spam single moves? (This might not be considered dishonourable but definately boring)

 

5. Do you continiously abuse major bugs? The most noticable was DFA's hit detection and 'stubborn' max damage before 1.03 and is now replaced with the horizontal turn 'swing' with blue stance's backstab. (This could easily be fixed by making players unable to turn during this move; just like they fixed DFA)

 

That's all I can think of right now.

 

I write this because I like this game. I find it really awesome duelling others with light sabers even though it's still bugged and could use some more maneuvers. But as with any other game I wanna have fun playing it. Sure, winning is fun, but not for me if it's at the expense of others.

 

Oh, if you're gonna argue that playing without honour can be excused by being a dark sider, it won't hold water with me. Honour is universal and indifferent to 'good' or 'evil'.

 

Knowing this won't change anything I am

 

Jubatus

 

I'm not a supporter of any of these "dishonorable" but last time I cheked people don't have to follow unofficial rules such as these.

[InfErnO]

Dishonour =whining like a baby about someones gaming style.

It's a game you monkey, everyone has the right to play his own style.

 

It's not the way how someone plays that reflects a character, it's the whining and the baby insults. It's just cause one can't handle losing a ****ing computer game. How low can you go?

 

Anyway, the jk/k2 is the lamest gaming community for some reason. It's entertaining though.

[Jubatus]

Well, as I stated the original post I didn't expect it to change anything nor do I nurture any hope that it would.

 

It was written in slight anger on a night after fighting some real boring players. Primarily move spammers, who are horribly boring to fight, which I also said in my original post (one of you misunderstood this despite saying you had read my post thoroughly).

 

Never meant to tell you how you should play. If you don't wanna bow, don't. But I will.

 

Giving it second thought after calming down I realize I should have concentrated on the boring players, not the ones I consider 'dishonourable'. The boring players are actually the ones I loathe the most. Having some Uh-I'm-an-evil-sith lord attack me while typing or otherwise temporarily incapable of defending myself is annoying, but doesn't rate as bad.

 

Many of you advocate the righteousness of attacking someone on the ground. You have already proven your strength by winning the saber lock. Does it not prove you even stronger to let your opponent feel that you do not need to take advantage of him being knocked down in order to win? It's a respectable form of arrogance in my oppinion

 

It is however funny, how so many respond to my post defending their right to play dirty. Strike that, they even go as far as trying to nullify the loathsome about it. Why defend your behaviour so strongly if you truly do not feel you should be offended by my post?

 

And why do some of you say that it's just a video game and we shouldn't bring in knightly aspects like honour, greeting your opponent and such like, while you at the same time defend your actions with 'that's how a sith lord would do'?

 

And why do some of you interpret my posting as being a whiner for losing? I win more than I lose. Losing or winning is not the issue here. Guess calling whiner is the easy tool of shallow crowd pleasing some of you have to settle with.

 

But let all that be.

 

What I really want to promote is flavour to your styles of fighting. Let go of your fear of losing, be the samurai seeking death in combat, take wacky chances, live a little damnit!

 

Believe it or not, creating fun for others is more fun than having fun for yourself only.

 

Jubatus

[Spider AL]

Believe it or not, creating fun for others is more fun than having fun for yourself only.

 

Uh, I'm one of the folks who would probably qualify as "honourable" by your standards... but I have to say, having fun by proxy is not my favourite pastime. I play to have fun for myself, thank you very much.

[Lime-Light]

I play on nuetral or NF servers. I play honorable, but uf my opponent gets pissed at my whooping his ass and plays like lamer, i do it the cheap way.

[fitzwilliamd]

This is not a rant, but quoting entire messages might not be a great idea. The concept is to grab a line or two and comment on it and then ...

 

Awwwww, nevermind

[Swingman]

What's the point of winning the saber lock if you don't take advantage of it?

 

I'm guessing you would stop your saber just short of hitting the person so that you don't hurt his health because he's already been mentally harmed due to knowing that said person is incapable of defending themselves.

 

That's about as stupid as your argument sounds as to not attacking people that you knocked over.

[hiausd]

Anyway, the jk/k2 is the lamest gaming community for some reason. It's entertaining though.

 

I agree

 

 

I don't care if people play with honor or not. I just find it annoying and boring when someone can only kill another in a backstab. People who just try to make you fall the whole duel.

[Jah Warrior]

Hi,

 

I am so glad that i saw this post, it has restored my faith in humanity.

 

I, like you jubatus also follow my real life principles when playing JKII.

 

You say that perhaps you used the wrong word when you said honour, yes and no.

 

I prefer to call it common decency, or manners.

 

when i have a fight i know that the best fights will happen when both opponents are 'ready' and have signalled thier readiness with a nod or a bow.

 

I personally will not take the time to chat to anyone who will not bow or just steams in and tries to dfa you while bowing as I believe this says a lot about their reall life personality too. However I have met some people while playing who seem to have a similar outlook and have become good online friends with these folk.

 

I never thought for a minute that playing this game would gain me friends but alas it has. all for £35. You cannot put a price on friendship and for that reason alone it makes JKII a godsend.

 

In regard to specific points of your post, i sometimes do hit folk on the ground, if only to stop me getting hit first. If however the player is known to me and is an honourable fellow I will always make the effort to backflip away after the lock has finished. and nod my head to them. to acknowledge a good lock.

 

As far as Boring players are concerned, I too agree on this point, i notice a lot of people are going a little crazy over the over head yello jumpy thing and it does get tiresome when you play with varied moves and get multiple strikes only to find the other guy always trying to position himself for the overhead move which when it connects all but kills you. To me this is a tactic for the weak saberist.

 

In regard to people trying to 1 hit kill right off the bat, I fail to see where the achievement is in that. it is a totally hollow victory.

 

I also think that perhaps culture plays a part in this, Some societies place all importance on being 'number 1' and 'winning', 'nobody remembers losers' etc, and some societies seem to have sportsmanship and fair play as there core. I don't want to name particular countries as it may upset americans but i do find that different countries have different codes of conduct as such and it is evident on the servers, Not as a rule but in general.

 

There is something that perhaps we should all take into consideration while playing and that is:- when you encounter the obnoxious players, they are probably just kids, and as such we should just tolerate them and simply feel sorry for their parents.

 

I find that the nicer i am to people the better i play, and winning is just a side effect of that.

 

To sum up be nice to people and hopefully they will reciprocate.

 

Good on you Jubatus i hope i play against you soon.

 

Peace to you all

 

Jah

 

Big Respect to the Crimson Order

[Swingman]

Bowing has nothing to do with common decency or honor in games.