Scarlet Widow Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 From what i've read, Raven has no plans on releasing the single player source code for for Jedi Knight II, they do however plan on releasing the multiplayer source (not opposed to that at all). i for one have a great need of it... i'd much rather have that than the multiplayer source myself So, if you will, post your thoughts on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakewl Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 jep the singleplayer sdk would make great sense, since jko has much potential for sp-maps in regard to the new SW-movies releasing the sp sdk is a good step to a long life for the game! looking at jedi knight (released 1997) it still has an active mod-community, jediknight outcast could become the same status Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchouky Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 well i really understand you guys but i m a coder i don t feel like i NEED it ! if it was released i probably get a look to it but i don t think i will ever create a mod for SP . In fact i m intrested in Mp only and i will create mods for it !!! you can bet on it !!! So i m sorry for you guys if it doesn't come out . it can surerly add something to the community. but if it s not i'm sure great mods will be available thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avalon Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 Single player source code is a must... more than half of the mods out there are Single Player, and I know I myself plan to make one at some point in the future. I don't see what good it could do by not releasing it. I would like it even simply as a reference for things that I'm currently working on in the multiplayer code, which were already done in Single Player.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lime-Light Posted June 2, 2002 Share Posted June 2, 2002 I dont think I'll buy another Raven game if they abandon this one. (I just purchased SOF2 and it makes me very, very angry I did) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Valinor Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 I see no reason NOT to release the single player source code. I mean, what possible reason could there be? They can't argue that people would use it for commercial products, because people can do that with the MP source code. I, personally, am not that interested in MP, but I would love to see some really good single player mods. Unfortunately that is not going to be possible. Sure people can make some really nice mission/story packs, but nothing that will really change the gameplay, and that is sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyWing Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 Yep, I agree with all you guys, the SP source is a must. I had plans to release a new episode for JK2 that would be a total conversion. Basically it's about what would happen if Desann had killed Katarn and taken over the Massassi Temple, accomplished his goals, etc. The mod would take place a few hundred years after the fight and there would be all new weapons, skills, style of play, etc. I've already done a lot of work on the project and if they screw us by not even releasing the damn source, I'm never buying another Raven game again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakewl Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 what if raven or another team is working on an official jedi knight outcast addon (not announced) could this be a reason for not releasing the SP-SDK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UGG Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 It's not important for SP but it would be nice. You can still do a lot with scripting and menu files. It's essential for good MP mods though. It's no big loss that can't add bells and whistles to your SP level. There aren't many SP levels made to justify it really. Go check out how many Elite Force SP levels there are! EFFiles has about 250 MP maps and just 1 SP map, though I'm sure there were a few more made. Besides, LucasArts might decide to do an expansion pack later, and they wouldn't want any competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Truthful Liar Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 The SP SDK is a must, I'd really enjoy some well made SP maps that delve the person into the story more than just "bang bang" shoot-em up. Also ingame-cenematics = a certain must!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALIEN_JL Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 I have no use for MP code because i don't want to build any huge total conversions... (and there would be no player for small...) But i want to modify many things in SP Soo... I NEED SP Code (given that i can modify/compile it without Visual C++ just like that mp code) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jipe Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 It's no big loss that can't add bells and whistles to your SP level. There aren't many SP levels made to justify it really. Go check out how many Elite Force SP levels there are! EFFiles has about 250 MP maps and just 1 SP map, though I'm sure there were a few more made. Cause and effect - there was no SP SDK for EF, and so very few SP levels were released. Expect it to be the same with the JO community, except the numbers will be higher (ratio will still be high, probably 100 to 1 or so). Everywhere I go I see people asking for more SP levels. I know there are many people who have SP level plans, and many involve new weapons, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcom Posted June 3, 2002 Share Posted June 3, 2002 The common and unfortunate error in EF community (which I am a part of ) is that ppl who were/are planning some SP mods (ok, w/o SDK but still) wanted too much. They made plans, wrote stories for 10+ levels mods, including custom models , textures, and so on while in practice, it's almost impossible to do assuming that you want some kind of quality in your work. That's why some promising mods are still being developped and it's been more than a year. edit: Btw, this poll is ridiculous. Who on earth wouldn't want the SP code released? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakewl Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 Who on earth wouldn't want the SP code released? raven, lucasarts and some evil forces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jipe Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 We don't release the single player source because it's tied to the exe - unlike the vms which are complete separate. -James So the answer is no - not now, not ever. It's not that Raven/LEC don't want us to have it; it's just not possible.. I suppose I'll be looking for a new game. I hear Unreal 2 will be singleplayer only.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcom Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 Originally posted by Drakewl raven, lucasarts and some evil forces I meant among the players/modders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakewl Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 hehe don't worry, this was just a stupid answer out of my frustration not many people of the community wouldn't want the sp-sdk released, i for mine could imagine SP-haters, people that hacked the jk-exe and won't other people to competition with them but we should see it from another point of view game development is full of compromises and now we have to take a big compromise, unfortunately, but that won't prevent me from creating a good sp map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XManny Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 They should release the Singleplayer source code. I hope Raven sees this thread (it's 47 yes votes to only a handfull no ones). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniKorn Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 Originally posted by Xcom They made plans, wrote stories for 10+ levels mods, including custom models , textures, and so on while in practice, it's almost impossible to do assuming that you want some kind of quality in your work. That's why some promising mods are still being developped and it's been more than a year. I guess we're doomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLord79at Posted June 4, 2002 Share Posted June 4, 2002 Let's put it a bit more diplomatic: Of course, a SP SDK would be helpful in creating massive single player experiences. I'm also the type of guy who is more into SP than MP - to be honest, fighting eg. a Reborn in SP is totally different from MP. In SP it's more like in a film - like having some pause before engaging into battle and things like that (you played the game, you know what I mean ). On the other hand, I also understand that companies like Raven and LucasArts just don't want to give away their "intellectual property" - the code. BUT there are some deficiencies I'd like to criticize. I have never been into JK editing, but from what I saw on Massassi for example, COG seems to be superior in a few areas. Remember the MotS secret level? You could play as Luke Skywalker without affecting the main game itself. I also think there were COGs which added new NPCs without altering existing ones. When I look at the situation with JO it makes me a bit sad: Take the Vader model for example. Ok, I might be a bit pedantic - but in an ideal world I should have the possibility to add a NPC WITHOUT affecting the main plot or other 3rd party maps. Just replacing someone like Desann to get Vader is not a clean solution - what do you think? I also see the problems with changing player saber colors or replacing the player character itself - my credo is that mods should be as non-intrusive as possible and they should neither conflict with the main game nor other mods. JO might be modular, but in some specific aspects not modular enough as it seems. As a compromise it would be cool if Raven could release some kind of patch which, for example, would allow to use new characters in SP like in MP - the .jkb, .npc and .bot file formats are already there. Or maybe create some additional text file format if technical issues would require it. This way, Raven could keep their "property", the code, and at the same time they would assure a continued SP experience for all JO gamers out there. I hope I made my points clear enough, English isn't my mother tongue May the force be with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakewl Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 good points you made there, DarkLord it seems that raven had only a very limited time for thoughts and implementation of modding ability, scalability and modularity. maybe they had to give their tasks some priorities and multiplayer mode won their approval first, just my 2 cents i think, the best way to convince raven/lucasarts of better implementation functions/possibilities, is to create some awesome buttkicking maps that have quality, their own visual style and great singleplayer atmosphere if the community is extasic about these maps, raven would probably get more will to implement our wishes by the way: schöne Grüße aus Berlin, Darklord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithcloak Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 I also hope that they release a the SP SDK. I am planning on making a Lightsaber duel series where you get to fight both the dark side and the light side around the galaxy against all sorts of Jedi and Sith. But I won't be able to create new AI unless they release the code. So I hope that they will reconsidor their desision. Does anyone know who I should E-mail on this? Sithcloak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jipe Posted June 5, 2002 Share Posted June 5, 2002 It's not a simple Yes/No decision - Raven would have to recode the entire game so they could release SP code without releasing the entire .EXE (which includes the q3 engine code). It won't happen, ever.. maybe they had to give their tasks some priorities and multiplayer mode won their approval first Carmack designed the engine specifically so that QVMs could be used for multiplayer mods - after all, Q3 was a multiplayer only game (bots aren't SP). So this was already in the engine.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLord79at Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 Originally posted by Drakewl by the way: schöne Grüße aus Berlin, Darklord Dir auch schöne Grüße, Drakewl - und zwar aus Villach, was dir wahrscheinlich nix sagen wird - außer vielleicht von der Skisprung-WM, jedenfalls bitte mit "F" aussprechen wie bei "Vogel" (hab' schon öfters Touristen und Kommentatoren gehört, die beinhart "Willach" sagen ) So, after greeting Drakewl a short note to you, jipe: As I said, maybe they could add some internal functions which would allow us to add new NPCs or exchange the player character in a simple way. Of course, it might need quite some effort - depending on how good/modular the current codebase is ... however, I don't know the Quake 3 code structure - so you might be right that a change would require too much work. BTW: JO also consists of a game DLL, not only the EXE. But I don't know where the essential code part is in. Best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Cloak Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 Okay. This is based on the Q3Arena engine. I bet ya that they wrote the multiplayer part FIRST (I didn't keep track of development all that much, sorry, so I could be wrong), and THEN MODIFIED the multiplayer code into the single player piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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