Important Ideas...Need feedback

[RockerForceXV]

Alright, I've been lurking for some time and I've decided to make an appearance. As a designer I think i see some of the problems here.

 

Alright, here we go:

 

**Regarding the force+backstab issue**

GOOD IDEA--Implement push/pull so that it can be used on the ground. This will allow players to launch the opponent away if they attempt to get in position for a backstab.

OKAY IDEA--If you really want to be simple about it, make it so you can't backstab someone who's on the floor.

BAD IDEA--Nerfing the move. When someone pulls this off in a real fight, it's an elegant and excellent move, and makes the combat much cooler.

 

**Regarding the nerfing of Force Lightning**

GOOD IDEA--Lightning needs to have it's range at level 3 to keep consistent with the star wars world, but it is too easy to kill many people in small rooms. And it is too easy to whore on. It could be fixed by making it take slightly more force energy to use, and doing slightly less damage, and the user can only walk with it and not run.

OKAY IDEA--Lightning could be made so that it is blockable with the lightsaber, or having lightsaber defense at a high level reduces its damage by a percentage. If you are gripped or pushed, it can cancel out.

BAD IDEA--"It's balanced fine, just leave it."

 

**Regarding the nerfing of Force Grip**

GOOD IDEA--Leave it alone. it's fair now. I can counter it fine, and it can be effective, if used by someone who is good enough (although adding the animations for players getting hit against the walls would be cool...or losing health when it's done).

OKAY IDEA--Make it so that if you throw your saber and hit the user, it releases you.

BAD IDEA--Nerfing it's power any further, or powering it back up.

 

**Regarding Force Absorb**

GOOD IDEA--Make it absorb maybe 10% more.

OKAY IDEA--Leave it alone.

BAD IDEA--Making it "reverse the move" onto the enemy, making you temporarily gain the ability, and all that other lame stuff I've seen around that's just not a good idea.

 

**Regarding Guns**

GOOD IDEA--Add a few more ammo pickups to the maps, and leave the gun's firing rates alone (I dunno about you gun guys but I can shoot plenty even after the patch).

OKAY IDEA--Make the revert to the old ammo consumption.

BAD IDEA--Making the guns super...saber users die from gunfire all the time, they don't need to be any stronger.

 

**Regarding Saber Combat System**

GOOD IDEA--Leaving it alone, except maybe toning down the whole seemingly 360 block arc a very slight bit.

OKAY IDEA--Making the backstab moves non-aimable (but maybe make some kind of cyclone attack move?).

BAD IDEA--Completely changing it, adding twin sabers or double-bladed sabers, making it so you can use another dead player's saber...all of those are lame to me, but notwithstanding, those are mod material, not patch material.

ANOTHER BAD IDEA--The mouse swiping melee system. it sounds cool, but you'll learn if you ever played Die By The Sword that the mouse swipe system has problems. When you are done with your big swing or little swing, for instance, the blade doesn't return to it's default position (this can't be done, because if they were to set a value for it to return to after aset amount of time, then all of your moves would have to be done in the same time gap, thus making the dynamic mouse system somewhat moot). It might be cool if they could implement it, but again, this seems more like a mod idea.

 

**Regarding Game Play**

GOOD IDEA: Objective-based maps (think the Assault missions from Unreal Tournament).

ANOTHER GOOD IDEA: Gunners vs. Saberists teamplay mode (there's some mod that sort of does this, I think).

OKAY IDEA: A multiplayer map that has a usable the AT-ST Walker, but only one or two (imagine players uniting to fight the thing? it would be quite fun).

WEIRD IDEA: My friend suggested that to avoid the murderous ravaging done to players chatting or in the menus (who now have that lovely bullseye on their heads), blocking should become full 100% perfect from the front while using the menus. I think it's a bad idea, personally (then you can just hit esc and be unharmable), but I told him I'd run it up here ot see what everyone thought.

BAD IDEA: Adding ONLY one kind of map...add an equal number of maps to each game mode int he next update so as not to rouse the community to bitchery.

 

Okay...I think that's all for now. Please, do not flame back. I would like to get serious feedback on these ideas. Thanks for reading.

[RockerForceXV]

Forgot to mention one little thing:

 

**Regarding Block Key**

BAD IDEA: Having a block key will murder the game. And people like me who have a five button mouse and can afford to sacrifice one to be the block key will probably never get hit.

[graigsmith]

**Regarding the force+backstab issue**

i think changing it would be a bad idea. if you get knocked down.. you SHOULD IMO be vulnerable. there are MANY ways not to get knocked down.

 

**Regarding the nerfing of Force Lightning**

bad idea, its balanced. you can absorb to counter it already and come out ahead.. you can push or pull them to stop the lightning, or you can dark rage so you wont take damage from it, and blast the crap out of the person doing the lightning. IMO lightning is a weaker power. dark rage and drain are better.

 

**Regarding Force Absorb**

force absorb shouldnt be changed.

 

**Regarding Guns**

GUNS ARE FINE. if you dont think you have enough ammo, then perhaps you should try force pulling the guns out of peoples hands for more ammo. however people should run SLIGHTLY slower when they are running backwards.

 

**Regarding Saber Combat System**

NO funny mouse swinging saber system. i use the mouse to turn and so does EVERYONE else. saber combat is nearly perfect.. i think blocking is fine. though sabers do come in contact with each other a bit too much, it makes the battles last too long, and it puts more importance in the backstab move IMO.. sabers should only connect about 1/4th the time.. that way if both people are actively swinging at each other they will both get hit.

[graigsmith]

block key, not needed.. just facing someone works great for blocking.. if your swinging or using force powers your not blocking though.. and thats where the balance is.

[Doctor Shaft]

Here's what I think.

 

Hopefully Raven will notice some of the major issues at hand. I will not mention most of them though.

 

In my opinion, the saber combat system has the potential to be good, but right now it's not so good. I think that the damage ratios being turned down was a terrible idea. Saber battles now take too long with the current system, unless you use the heavy stance. The increased blocking is murder, forcing you to use heavy stance to score hits. If you keep yourself facing a medium or light stance user, you will block 100%, or close to it. This is unless you swing of course. Medium and light do about the same damage right now, but light goes faster. There's no sense in using either stance now because Heavy has the range of medium, and is the only thing that does sufficient damage against a person.

 

Against guns, a lightsaber is still crap. Now, you can use the terrible push/pull move to get a person down and instant kill them. But let's face it, when's the last time you went up against a gunner and actually took a normal swing at him? And I mean man-to-man. No sneaking up, no using persuasion, no group battles where the guy is distracted. I mean just you, your saber, and the other guy with the gun. Against laser blasts, sure, you can block them back. But right now, if you get a good repeater, and run backwards, the saberist not only can't catch up to you becasue you some how run backwards as fast you as run fowards, but you walk into a death trap because practically half of the advanced guns are explosives. NOw i'm not saying we should change the guns. I like the way they are, and I like the challenge of running at someone with explosives. And I'll agree that it should be very dangerous to chase someone with a bazooka. But the saber swings are inpractical when running. Light stance has no ruange, so I have to practically hump the gunner to get a swing in. And if I do hit, the damage is pitiful. Medium stance might work, but since a person can run backwards just as fast as I can chase, he can always keep that inch and shoot me down safely. And again, if I do hit, the damage wasn't even worth it. Heavy stance is just plain slow for that, so no dice there. Saber throw does 30 points, and while it probably needs to keep low damage because of how people could potentially spam it, again against gunners it's not worth it.

 

How to improve it. I don't know. I can't make games. I still think lightsaber damage ratios should be high, and blocking ability made slightly lower. I don't know how to explain. I"ve played JK1, and i'd agree that it was a huge jousting match. I don't want that. But right now the stances do not provide depth of combat. There is still a sure way to win. Hopefully depth can be provided in another patch. There's a lot of things that just don't have value in the game anymore, like force drain and heal. And the other two lightsaber stances. Except for select moves, ultimately there is a greater stradegy in using the heavy stance. It just provides far more. Also, having to buy all the stances to get one should be changed. I would like to only buy two sometimes, or just one that I like, rather than getting all three. Ironically, the system shows the effectiveness of the stances from least to greatest. Light, then medium, then heavy. Alright, I type too much.

[RockerForceXV]

You're right, absorb shouldn't be changed.

 

If gunners running backwards are the problem, there is always force pull (my personal method) or grip or push. Fighting gunners doesn't bother me much--sometimes they get me and sometimes they don't, so I don't think they are cheap.

 

Running backwards being slower could cause a lot of potential problems. Imagine, if you will, the guys who will now be ROLLING and JUMPING backwards constantly...and then, they will be a lot tougher to hit then just simply running backwards.

 

As far as sabers go, I think that the best method here is simple--they overnerfed them is all. The added blocking is fine but the addition of that ridiculous "beginning and end of your swing only do 1 damage" addition is what's making the duels and saber fights take so long.

 

The blocking would have been sufficient alone. The fact that you can hit someone and barely do any damage is absurd, almost.

 

As far as the damage levels go, i think they can be left alone. Once the rule about the beginng and end of the swing is gone, the stances will all be more viable options.

 

The backstab whoring will not be so horrible if they let you use push or pull on the ground, I think.

 

Running backwards, if slowed down, should only be slowed down SLIGHTLY. I'd prefer it to stay where it is--the game is balanced enough that you can catch a guy. If your in a gun match, you can always throw your saber or if it's NF you can roll--but if it has to be changed it has to be SLIGHT to keep up the chase...

 

I don't want to have to turn tail and run, only to get shot in the back. I think people who suggest slowing the backwards running are people who probably don't realize how often they use it themselves...because believe me, it will be complained about.

 

There's more but that's all for now. Thanks for the feedback all. Keep talking.