The Ladder - Part 2?

[Catscratch]

Well, i have two maps now .

 

http://www.geocities.com/fayebo80/tryout2.zip

 

the map's name is "tryout". Well it still looks like an outline but it will be shaped by your comments.

 

Now you chase down Tavion out of the building. Some stormtroopers show up and you find luke outside of the building. It's pretty short but im getting used to mapping

 

(still need to learn scripting anyway)

 

Anyone knows how to make in-game cutscenes btw ?

[Darth Torgo]

Alright, I've played the new one you did. Some good stuff going on here. I like where this is headed.

 

* I dig splitting it up into two maps. From your post, I gather that your wanting to make a cut scene to go inbetween the two that pushes the plot that you have ot chase tavion outside to kill her. This would be cool, but even if you don't get any cutscenes in there, it would still rock. People would probably be able to pick up on the map's plot. But the idea of using two maps is really good. That was one of the short comings of the original ladder level. The game play was great, but when the fighting or the plot "goes to the next level", the map itself didn't. Changing maps half way through is excelent.

 

* The inside was better I thought without the stormtroopers. Perhaps you might want to try some automated cannons later, but I liked the absence of the troopers indoors. The doors were nice and the map itself I think will work fine--especially once there's more "stuff" going on in there as far as decoration and props go.

 

* The music switching to the Connan number when the other Jedi showed up was really nice. The music cut on, the troops showed up, and the battle was *on*. Good stuff.

 

* I like the idea of going outside for the second half of the level. I also liked the way you had the troops and reborn positioned.

 

* I don't know if you were going for a Hedge maze feel on that outdoor area but I liked it a lot. If it can be done and still look good in the game, I'd certainly recomend keeping some manner of hedge maze. I mean, I realize it's not quite a hedge maze but it has that feel and goes great with sword play. As is, it's obviously rough-looking but its' a great idea.

 

* Are you planning on putting a ship at the end of the outside area? I immagine tavion would be fleeing to that or something.

 

All in all, it's going real well. keep it up!

 

- DT

[Grets Sirob]

I might make a ladder level later on. Just to learn some stuff, maybe try a cutscene or two, several levels...

 

Hey, this is sounding cool! I might incorperate this into my Mimban Temple! The story could be that you were following Desann or somebody(hopefully a custom model and skin) You then get trapped inside and you end up fighting loads of guys. Hey, that's an awsome idea! I will do that! I don't know about cutscenes, but at least it'll be there!

 

 

 

 

:no bantha smily either jk2.net: *bantha call*

[Graphicsgod]

I thought the "ladder" was made to hone your skills and see how good you are. Thats what Ladder2 should be, just with more umph. If you add cut scenes and such, it becomes more a regular level. And not a "training" program, type of map.

 

Mybe when I said "make it go somewhere", I might have not made that clear or somthing. Oh well.

 

 

Just my 2 cents....

[Darkblade]

Originally posted by Graphicsgod

I thought the "ladder" was made to hone your skills and see how good you are. Thats what Ladder2 should be, just with more umph. If you add cut scenes and such, it becomes more a regular level. And not a "training" program, type of map.

 

Mybe when I said "make it go somewhere", I might have not made that clear or somthing. Oh well.

 

 

Just my 2 cents....

 

Does it bother you if there are simple scripts for making Reborn jumping down from tall buildings and such? I hated the way in The Ladder that they just appeared from nowhere...

[Catscratch]

Well im thinking of a shuttle already. Maybe the same shuttle in the first level of SP.

 

Is there a way to make npc spawning points that will spawn a npc every 2 minutes until i deactivate =?

[Elijah]

mmm, IMO, SCREW REALIZIM! Your in a world with guys who own nothing, walk around waving there hands to get there way... and there only weapon is a light stick... i mean common, HOW REALISTIC IS THAT?

 

so... when making starwars stuff... forget the hole *realistic* thing...

[Darth Torgo]

First off, as far as the Ladder being just for training, training for what? Training for all the multiplayer games I don't play? Trainging for the SP game that I've already finished and have no intention of replaying anytime soon? A training program for some surpise Jedi test we're all going to have ot take one day? Hell no, a good ladder level *becomes* the game--it's not a means to some other fun, it *is* the fun.

 

And as far as plot goes, I don't see anything wrong with a little plot or even a cut scene or two as long as it doesn't turn into "Metal Gear Solid 2" or anything. I see a ladder level as a SP level that puts massive saber battles abaove all other elements in the game without worrying with puzzles, big maps, keys, or too much in the way of non-jedi enemies or plot. That said, I think a little plot and a few troopers are fine. And adding a chasing tavion plot is nothing to get too worried about--it's just enough to give a little reason to the level without swamping it.

 

And realisim... the spawning on the first ladder level never bothered me. Have them come out of doors, come down from the ceiling, or just appear out of thin air--doesn't matter to me. Their wizards living in a super advanced sci-fi world. If thye want to appear out of nowhere, then so be it.

 

- DT

[Catscratch]

Hehe darth, well im not going to make a sp-like map anyway. It's really beyond my abilities. I hate puzzles in SP. Well JK2 would really be something different. I expected so much things like more adventure and interacting with npcs. JK2 is a starwars version of quake3 which is really made for multiplayer.

 

 

Well i have updated the maps.

 

http://www.geocities.com/fayebo80/tryout3.zip

 

The second map does have a shuttle now. However you can go through it because i copy/pasted it from the kejim_base map itself to just see how it looks.

 

Another update is a cliff at the end of the map where you fight tavion.

 

(If i go crazy about mapping i should make a map or maps that leads you to where jk2 SP starts. What they did before they got into the shuttle heading to Kejim. Huh what an imagination i have )

[Sniper Jo]

My zip program says the file is broken.

 

Maybe you can fix it

 

I only play sp so this is great fun

[Catscratch]

Well i tried that link with a different computer and it works fine no zip errors with Winzip. However i wil upload that file again to the site when i get home.

[Catscratch]

http://www.geocities.com/fayebo80/tryout3.zip

 

i've changed the first map a bit. Now you face two more reborns and 3 stormtroopers (they shouldn't run at ya) that would guide you to the exit of the map.

[Darth Torgo]

I like the new stuff. Not much else for me to say on it beyond that. Just visual stuff needs to be done, but the game play is pretty damn close if not there already.

 

- DT

[Indy4]

when are you planning to realese screenshots?

[pakmannen]

hey, darkblade,

just saw you screenshots over at jedioutcastmaps.com

 

really great!

what sky did you use? the sky or the sky_platform?

and what is the orange looking texture called?

 

(i've been looking for a texture like that)

 

sweet work!

[Darkblade]

Originally posted by pakmannen

hey, darkblade,

just saw you screenshots over at jedioutcastmaps.com

 

really great!

what sky did you use? the sky or the sky_platform?

and what is the orange looking texture called?

 

(i've been looking for a texture like that)

 

sweet work!

 

I am using the original bespin sky. I am just faking the damn light by using light entities because I didn't find a ambient sky which eminated propriate light.

 

I believe that the orange texture is in the bespin textures. I'll try to find the name of it but the whole level is constructed with bespin textures only.

[Spiderfan1311]

hey I just saw the shots over at jedioutcastmaps.com, truly sweet! will desann be in there at the end like in the first one? (didn't see it in the shots)

[Darkblade]

Of course Desann will be there. As you (maybe) saw those were Beta shots of the map and didn't have all of the enemies placed on the map yet and of course there may be some little additions on the map (like R2 droids next to X-Wing 'fixing' it).

 

I got few suggestions on what to add to the level by my beta tester BlackSheep and the operator of Jedi Outcast Maps and it seems there may be somekind of a 'normal' and 'special edition' out of Ladder 2.

 

Normal will just contain that one area. One which you see in the screenshots.

 

Special Edition will contain probably a street of somekind (one which you saw in Bespin Streets map) and/or a landing pad.

 

Lot of things are still open and suggestions are always welcome.

[pakmannen]

ah, never mind. i made some textures myself..

 

thanks anyway, and keep up the work!

[iTeM]

En svensk! yay

[Exar Kun II]

OK, i just played the map, killed all the Reborns and Tavion, I've got Mr. Skywalker running around beside me, is there anything else? What am I missing?

[Catscratch]

I think the last comment is for me. Well since i know nothing to create in-game cutscenes, the map never ends.

 

Maybe i connect the map to the SP's first level.

 

Im really thinking of a SP level which has a story about what jan and kyle were doing before they went to Kejim Post.

 

Need some cool concept and story btw and i gotta learn how to make in-game demos.

[Nobodi Kenobi]

Catscratch

 

I tried you level and it is pretty good

 

As was stated before, the gameplay is the most important part of any level and it is THERE. All you need to do now is put in some eye candy (textures, refine things) and it will be a good SP level.

 

As far as a cool story goes...

 

If you can do it... Create a custom model/NPC character of a Rogue Jedi who is wowrking for Desann and is delivering something important to Kejim like the latest prototype armor suit the Shadowtroopers wear. But of course, Kyle and other Jedi intercept a transmission from him/her and after defeating the waves of dark jedi (reborn) they interogate the dark jedi and he/she tells them where they were going (Kejim) which takes us into the original SP game storyline.

 

It's like a prologue -- In fact, that is exactly what it is.

 

Even if you can't create a custom NPC, try and reskin Tavion or whomever will be the "big-bad" of your level so that it isn't a character from the SP on the outside.

 

I think that would work.

 

Re: Ladder 2 and Ladder Levels in General...

 

As someone else said, the ladder itself IS the game.

 

It can be used both as a training tool for online MP and as a stand-alone "fun" level to play if you've played the SP campaign and just want to get a little light-saber fragin' in

 

People mentioned the importance of plot and while there is nothing wrong with a plot, the fact is the original ladder is so successful because, ironically, there is no plot and it gets down to the main appeal of JK II and that is light saber battles above all else.

 

I think the trick for any ladder type level is to have a plot, but not one that overwhelms the main purpose of the map: Dueling with NPCs.

 

Even the original ladder can have an imaginary plot: It's the last challenge the hero (Kyle) has to face - waves of minions - before taking on the henchman (Tavion) and finally the big-bad (Desann) himself. That's classic storytelling without the story. And it works.

 

Darkblade

 

The only criticism I have of the first ladder is that it becomes impossible to win without cheats because the amount of enemies that spawn are insurmountable. 6 on 1 - no matter what the skill setting - Is to much for even a Jedi like Kyle.

 

What would be cool is to do what Catscratch did and have friendly Jedi arrive and help you out when the odds become increasingly overwhelming.

 

You have to remember, it can be challenging, but you should be able to get to the end - or near the end - Of the map with some effort on the players part instead of the original ladder where it is an accomplishment to get to the shadowtroopers alone because of how much is thrown at you from the start.

 

Now, understand I'm not saying nerf the skill level or make ladder 2 for noobs. BUT I am saying you should consider the fine line between fun and frustration

 

In addition, while it is cool to have score music (non-vocal) I would like to see music such as:

 

Wake Up - Rage Against the Machine (Matrix Theme)

 

Click Click Boom - Saliva

 

In Ladder 2 at just the right time to give it that FUN feeling that the Smack and Kombat music gave the original ladder.

 

I think Click Click Boom could be used after a short pause and possibly before Tavion or someone comes on just to "up" the adrenaline and remind you this is a game and to have fun.

 

But it's up to you of course

[Catscratch]

Well it would be cool. However they can't face with reborns, they appear later in the game. Well if i want to make a level with lightsaber and force powers, i'd rather prefer making a story after JK2's story. Otherwise i'll have to make a normal FPS level.

 

It is really unfortunate that i couldnt find any tutorials for making in-game cinematics(cutscenes).

[_MoDeMbOy_]

hmmm....Ladder pt.2! cool i liked ladder pt.1. oh and catscratch i tried your version and i liked it alot man!!good work!