Jedi Too Powerful In SW2

[mez1109]

The Sith Lord Sidius is very old, but still alive.

Vader should be dead, but still is alive.

 

The force idea sounds correct, it just doesn't work in the movies.

Yoda lives so long, as od his species, humans live up to 80 or 100, Yoda's species live ages, just like Vulcans.

 

Death is just the beginning for good Jedi, sith lords try to slow down the age process to live longer, good Jedi want to die, and join with the force.

[AgentSmith]

In support of what I think and believe there's some EU evidence (yeah I know it's but what the heck), e.g. in 'The courtship of princess Leia' where Luke, Han, Leia and company get stranded on Dathomir, they encounter all those force sensitive 'witches'.

 

The witches are beleagered by the 'nightsisters' who are in fact witches who turned to the dark side and their body is ravaged from unleashing the Dark Side, their skin much like the Emperors in ROTJ.

I agree the Emperor is old but he's not that old. Plus with their advanced medecine they could at least keep his skin looking normal or his teeth healthy. I feel you really see Palpatine/Sidious through the movies being 'eaten' alive by the Dark Side.

[ET Warrior]

I fully agree with Agent Smith......the extensive use of the dark side drains their life and destroys their body, but the light side extends the life of jedi......in ANH when vader is telling Tarkin the ObiWan is on the death star tarkin says "Surely he must be dead by now" And vader says "Don't underestimate the power of the force" Implying the force would extend his life

 

And in ROTJ yoda tells luke that he is dying and luke says "You can't die" then yoda says "Strong am I with the force...but not that strong." So yoda has lived longer because of the force.

[Jedi_Monk]

I don't know... Obi-Wan was 23 as of The Phantom Menace, which takes place 32 years before A New Hope, meaning that Obi-Wan would be about 55. Not very old at all. More likely Tarkin thought that Obi-Wan must have been killed in the Jedi purge since--as far as he knew--all of the Jedi were. I'm estimating Palpatine's age at maybe 80 by the time of Return of the Jedi.

 

[AgentSmith]

True but as the Emperor he woudl have the best medical staff and facilities at his disposal, and surely they could take better care of him than he looks in ROTJ.

I doubt he'd just let it be, vanity or not, he could have his body taken good care of. Which I think he probably does but the Dark Side just 'uses' it up.

 

For Obi-Wan's estimated age I must admit he does look a bit older in ANH than he should, but then again we don't know what he went through during the Clone Wars (injuries and all) or what confrontations with Sith he will have (we have clues though) and I think since he's hiding and Tatooine isn't exactly the most advanced place in the universe (medically and all) he probably only had the Force to sustain his health. Same for Yoda on Dagobah.

[Norin Radd]

Another thing to remember about the Sith is that they practice black magic and sorcery. I would not doubt that Palpatine has extended his life through. . .unnatural means.

[Rassick]

Plus in JK2 if your lightsaber defense is at max you can deflect shots in front of you indefinitely, from 50 bazillion stormtroopers. In AOTC Coleman Trebor couldn't even block Jango's shots...and Obi-Wan barely could defend himself when Jango used 2 blasters.

[AgentSmith]

Well JKII JO is a game off course, it doesn't approach the movies that closely. (If it would I think it'd be a whole lot different.)

 

Since Jango Fett, one of the best bounty hunters/soldiers in the galaxy (if not the best), couldn't land a single shot at Obi-Wan and would eventually lose against Mace Windu I think Lucas wanted to show Jango's skills and the Jedi's vulnerability (that they're not invicible) by having Jango blast Coleman Trebor. Plus I think Coleman Trebor was focusing on Count Dooku and not on Jango and at that close range it proved to be fatal.

 

Another good question though. You see many Jedi fall from blastershots by the battledroids. Several Jedi you clearly see get only one blastershot hit and not even in a vital area.

Are all of those Jedi dead too? Or some merely wounded and unconscious?

Surely the Jedi should be able to survive a degree of injury. And we've seen people in the movies get shot from blasters and not die. (E.g. Leia in ROTJ, it wasn't a full hit, but still in the AOTC Arena battle some Jedi got hit like that and fell to the ground and did not get up.)

[Rassick]

Maybe the droids used stronger blasters. A shot in the arm would go through the chest and out the other arm.

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by AgentSmith

Another good question though. You see many Jedi fall from blastershots by the battledroids. Several Jedi you clearly see get only one blastershot hit and not even in a vital area.

Are all of those Jedi dead too? Or some merely wounded and unconscious?

Surely the Jedi should be able to survive a degree of injury. And we've seen people in the movies get shot from blasters and not die. (E.g. Leia in ROTJ, it wasn't a full hit, but still in the AOTC Arena battle some Jedi got hit like that and fell to the ground and did not get up.)

 

Alot of Jedi's died in the arena battle cause Jedi cant block shots from all angles. If a Jed i is blocking hundreds of shot in front of him, there are droids shooting the same jedi in the back and on his sides. No Jedi can block that many shots from all angles. Maybe if there was an 8 armed alien jedi with eyes in the back of his head with 8 lightsabers he would be able too:)

I agree on the fact that some people wont die from getting hit once with a blaster. Maybe if you hit them in a vital part of the body, then they will. I think thats why Obi-Wan checked that Jedi's pulse. Cause he knew that there was a possibility that he could be alive. If Obi wan knew that after one blaster shot anyone is dead he wouldnt have checked his pulse.

[mez1109]

To be able to join the force, you have to be great in controlling it. Anakin (Vader) joins with the force, as he is supposed to be more powerful then any Jedi, with the highest metroclorines (I hate this word, can't spell it).

 

Compared to Yoda and Anakin, Obi Wan was not much of a Jedi on paper, but seemed to achieve alot with his lack in strength in force. Still Obi Wan achieves to join with the force faster then Yoda.

 

About George using Jango Fett to shoe the Jedi vunrebility, and that there are non Jedi fighters in the Star Wars World, that can actually threaten their live, maybe even kill them, depending on the Jedi's capability. Unfortunatly it did not work out like that in SW2, as AgentSmith pointed out.

 

Also as Anakin enters the Pod Race in EP1, the heros are told that Anakin is the only human that can enter the Pod Race, as all the other Aliens have much faster reflexes and the pods are VERY fast. The point being, that alot of other creaturs in the SW are as or even much more powerful then Jedi.

 

The Sith power, may be nothing else then the extensive use of the force within a short period, giving the illusion that the Jedi host has greater powers in the force, which explains the early physical ageing, as a Sith Jedi is like an over-clocked Graphic Card, it gives more power, but after a short period it will burn.

[Jedi_Monk]

To be able to join the force, you have to be great in controlling it. Anakin (Vader) joins with the force, as he is supposed to be more powerful then any Jedi, with the highest metroclorines (I hate this word, can't spell it).

It's "midi-chlorians". I always leave out the hiphen, though.

 

Furthermore, nothing says that you have to be able to control the Force to become one with it. Qui-Gon obviously became one with the Force (we hear his voice in AotC), yet he didn't disappear like Obi-Wan or Yoda did.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by mez1109

Compared to Yoda and Anakin, Obi Wan was not much of a Jedi on paper, but seemed to achieve alot with his lack in strength in force. Still Obi Wan achieves to join with the force faster then Yoda.

This paragraph is pure nonsense. Sorry to say:)

Obiwan wasnt much of a jedi on paper???

To become one with the force isnt some sort of a race to see who disapears faster.

Also as Anakin enters the Pod Race in EP1, the heros are told that Anakin is the only human that can enter the Pod Race, as all the other Aliens have much faster reflexes and the pods are VERY fast. The point being, that alot of other creaturs in the SW are as or even much more powerful then Jedi.

again sorry to say but do you even pay attention to the movies.

I mean your saying that a 10 year old anakin is a jedi?

Jedi are not just humans, they can be any type of aliens. As long as you are force sensitive.

[ET Warrior]

I'm really not certain if QuiGon joined with the force necissarily......i mean, Yoda could simply have had a vision of the past.....you can see the past with the force.....

The point being, that alot of other creaturs in the SW are as or even much more powerful then Jedi

Not really, because Anakin was the best Pod Racer on Tatooine (he beat Sebulba who "Always wins") And he had absolutely no training in the force, and he was only 9 years old. There is no non-force using individual more powerful than a jedi.

[Kryllith]

The ability to win a podrace is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

 

Besides, Anakin claimed he was the only human who could do it, but that doesn't mean his claim was necessarily true. Granted, it might have taken another human jedi to do it...

 

Kryllith

[mez1109]

You are not trusting in the power Anakin has, he is more powerful then Yoda, and he went through Jedi training at a late stage, but still achieved to outrun the other Jedi trainees in becoming a padwan as soon as he is discovered by Obi Wan and Qui Gon.

 

As you remember the Darth Maul battle, Obi Wan is not even fully femiliar with the force basic moves, such as force jump or force pull.

It takes Obi Wan a while to pull himself up once droped of the platform during the fight, and before choping Darth Maul in half, it takes him again some time to achieve force jump and pull to grab the lightsaber.

 

Anakin who had hardly any Jedi training, being trained by Obi Wan, can float things arround with ease, and seems never to be limited by the use of force.

 

Except that Anakin's too ambitous atempt to take on Count Dooku, Anakin may be more powerful then Yoda, but he hasn't got the experience to use his force.

 

The proof of my wild alligations, that is easy, Anakin is the hero who puts balance in the force, and has more midi-chlorians in his blood then Yoda, I didn't make it up, George Lucas did.

 

Yes MotionMan it isn't a race to dissapear faster, never said that. Still the achievment of a Jedi, or the whole purpose of being a good Jedi is at the end to become one with the force, if you think it is a dumb idea, then there is no point of Jedi high-archie as Jedis shouldn't improve to get a title, but do it for man kind, might as well become a sith, if you don't want to join with the force.

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by mez1109

You are not trusting in the power Anakin has, he is more powerful then Yoda, and he went through Jedi training at a late stage, but still achieved to outrun the other Jedi trainees in becoming a padwan as soon as he is discovered by Obi Wan and Qui Gon.

I know Anakin is powerfull. I never said he isnt powerfull. I said he is only 10 years old the time of the podrace. He is not a Jedi.

Your saying he is more powerfull than Yoda when he is 10? You were in fact talking about the time he pod raced.

As you remember the Darth Maul battle, Obi Wan is not even fully femiliar with the force basic moves, such as force jump or force pull.

It takes Obi Wan a while to pull himself up once droped of the platform during the fight, and before choping Darth Maul in half, it takes him again some time to achieve force jump and pull to grab the lightsaber.

Obi-Wan knew just about every Jedi move when he faught Maul. He was ready to become a Jedi knight. The reason it took Obi-wan a while to force jump and force pull the saber and get out the hole, was because he was a bit tierd and wore out from the fight with maul. Jedi's cant go around force jumping, force running ect at will. It takes concentration and energy to use the force that way.

Anakin who had hardly any Jedi training, being trained by Obi Wan, can float things arround with ease, and seems never to be limited by the use of force.

Any Jedi can make things float llike that. They are not suppose to though. They cant use the force for show or arogance. Anakin is arogant and him using the force this way are hints into him going into the dark side.

Yes MotionMan it isn't a race to dissapear faster, never said that. Still the achievment of a Jedi, or the whole purpose of being a good Jedi is at the end to become one with the force, if you think it is a dumb idea, then there is no point of Jedi high-archie as Jedis shouldn't improve to get a title, but do it for man kind, might as well become a sith, if you don't want to join with the force.

When did I say it was a dumb idea? I was mearly trying to explain to you that it doesnt matter how fast you disapear.

[mez1109]

I am sorry if I seemed to strong at forcing my arguments, no offence ment.

 

As Anakin is a more powerful Jedi, he should have an extra edge then other Jedis, at his rank or above.

 

If Obi Wan could have killed Anakin, he be dead in SW3, then again I better not say that, as Obi Wan might put Anakin into that Vader suit.

 

My point from my second previous post was, that OBI WAN is LESS powerful then Anakin, but is still in some way stronger then him in the force and as a Jedi.

 

Obi Wan seems like any other ordinary standard Jedi, he doesn't have more midi-chlorians then any other Jedi as Anakin does.

 

Still Obi Wan achieves to take on Darth Maul, and saying that Darth Maul was tiered out fighting Qui Gon is not an excuse, the guy is a Sith, and can be as powerful as 2 or 4 Jedis, being the whole point of being a Sith.

Obi Wan did not even achieve the Jedi Knight status an he had already taken on a Sith.

[mez1109]

I am sorry if I seemed to strong at forcing my arguments, no offence ment.

 

As Anakin is a more powerful Jedi, he should have an extra edge then other Jedis, at his rank or above.

 

If Obi Wan could have killed Anakin, he be dead in SW3, then again I better not say that, as Obi Wan might put Anakin into that Vader suit.

 

My point from my second previous post was, that OBI WAN is LESS powerful then Anakin, but is still in some way stronger then him in the force and as a Jedi.

 

Obi Wan seems like any other ordinary standard Jedi, he doesn't have more midi-chlorians then any other Jedi as Anakin does.

 

Still Obi Wan achieves to take on Darth Maul, and saying that Darth Maul was tiered out fighting Qui Gon is not an excuse, the guy is a Sith, and can be as powerful as 2 or 4 Jedis, being the whole point of being a Sith.

Obi Wan did not even achieve the Jedi Knight status an he had already taken on a Sith.

 

This standared Jedi, even took on Jango Fett, while trying to capture him, not kill him, and survived.

Even though Jango Fett kills a Jedi within the Arena with one gun shot, not even the Jedis reflexes and capability to see into the future could save the Jedi, but Obi Wan still survived.

[Kryllith]

It's all a matter of raw power versus actual control. Assuming that midichlorian count is the basis for raw power, Anakin has more raw power than any other jedi. The ability to use that power to it's utmost potential is what he lacks. Powerwise, he has an edge over any padawan with the same amount of training. Of course, most of these padawans would be about 13-14 years of age. Anakin isn't a match for Obiwan, or Dooku, or Yoda, or anyone of such calibur because he simply does not have the training to make the most of his power... yet...

 

Kryllith

[ET Warrior]

Yet of course being the operative word I dont think that anakin will ever become more powerful than Yoda......I mean, yoda has had over 800 years to learn his control of the force. Anakin gets less than 50.

Darth Maul was tiered out fighting Qui Gon is not an excuse, the guy is a Sith, and can be as powerful as 2 or 4 Jedis, being the whole point of being a Sith

Actually, the whole point of being a Sith is to be evil, and have an easier road to becoming as powerful as a jedi without as much hard work and discipline. A Siths power is based on his skill with the force, same as a jedi. Just being a sith does not automatically make you more powerful than a jedi. And Motion Man was talking about how ObiWan was tired, and that's why it took him some time to force jump out and force pull QuiGon's saber.

This standared Jedi, even took on Jango Fett, while trying to capture him, not kill him, and survived. Even though Jango Fett kills a Jedi within the Arena with one gun shot, not even the Jedis reflexes and capability to see into the future could save the Jedi, but Obi Wan still survived.

Jango fett killed Coleman Trebor with a few more than one gunshot. Because Trebor blocked two of his shots, and was knocked off the balcony by 2 or 3 more.

[mez1109]

Are you sure ET Warrior?

 

Sith ARE more powerful then good Jedi, as a Sith is a Jedi which is excessively using the force within his/her body.

 

A good Jedi controls his use of the force, while a Sith is like a VW Car with a installed Turbo engine, it draws lots of fuel at once, to give more power and speed.

[MotionMan]

It isnt about drawing out more energy. Its about how you use the force. The way you carry yourself.

A Jedi could use force push in a battle to push an enemy into a wall and leave him uncounsious. A Sith would use force push to throw an enemy off a cliff to his death.

Jedis are taught since childhood to not use the force unresponsibly. To control their emotions. To be mindfull. ect ect.

Siths are taught basically the same except for the way they use the force, and they are not peacekeeprs.

I know there is more to it than that but I was responding to mez's post only.(And im kind of sleepy:o )

[Kryllith]

Besides, Jedi will use however much Force they need to defend themselves. If a Sith goes reckless and releases a great amount of Force to attack a Jedi, the Jedi will simply increase the amount of Force in order to defend against the attack. Sith can be as excessive as they want, but if the Jedi they face are stronger in the Force, then the Sith are going to lose... all comes down to the individuals personal power (and their ability to use it), not whether they are Jedi or Sith.

 

Kryllith

[Jedi_Monk]

Anakin thought that his raw power would make up for his lack of lightsaber training. Though he had recieved half of the training in lightsaber use than what normal Jedi younglings and padawan would recieve, he still thinks he's badder than Yoda. Obi-Wan will teach him a lesson in SW3, I'm sure. There's a separation between skill and power. A Jedi uses the Force to accellerate their reaction time, to predict attacks, but that use of the Force cannot make up for not knowing the lightsaber forms, how to block and how to attack without leaving your guard down.