Derisor Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 There is a new archive at http://www.imAThievingIdiot.com for your enjoyment. I have seen several threads these days from people with "ripped versions" of the game and various modelling programs like 3d Max. I have one thing to say to them. No, It isnt "where did you get it?" It is, "What exactly turned you into a thieving jerk?" Was it parental abuse or something . When you steal someones software, you steal their product just like if you walk down to the local clothing store and walk out with a new leather jacket without paying. It is theft, it is robery. It is pathetic. The people that bust their buns working on this game deserve to be paid. They poured their heart and soul into it and made a fantastic game and deserve the rewards no matter how great they may be. "But I cant afford it," you might say. Then save up until you can. Your lack of motivation to pay for the product is no excuse. Nor more than it would be an excuse if you were arrested for shoplifting. Id like to make the following suggestions to those of the forum that believe that people have a right to get paid for their hard work. 1) If anyone talks about having a ripped version of the game or any other software, dont respond to their threads and permanently ignore them. Put them on the kill filter. 2) Reccomend via PM to the mods that the person be banned. Dont let people get away with it. Im sick of having to pay more for games so the game company can make up for the money they loose to these theiving jerks. Im sick of them the attitude that people dont deserve the fruits of their labors. None of use work for free, why should Raven? I want Raven to come out with sequel after sequel and I will keep BUYING every version. Ok, Ive had my say. Comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah Boon Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 this is pure spam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolJ Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 damn right... I myself am a game developer and know first hand how hard it is to make a game this good they deserve the money for all their work, this isn't a privelage that you should get... it's mostly kids that rip off software... and then there' those no cd cracks , etc... bah it costs a LOT of money to make a game more so than blockbuster movies with jerks like them they can't even break even... 3 companies worked on this game!! .... software piracy.. IS PIRACY... it is just as illegal as walking down the street and boosting a tv set..... and some ppl burn them to CD's then SELL them?! wtf is up with that? it's not your work, you did not buy it from the manufacturer, you cannot sell it, you shouldn't even have it in the first place....... and now ppl have to work harder to make games more secure and harder to copy...... if you can't pay for it, tough... I can't pay for a Jaguar, you don't see me going and stealing one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythren Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 I'd have to whole-heartedly agree. I must admit, I do believe computer games are a little overpriced (I'm thinkin about 30 bucks per game...but then again, I'm a cheap sonuvagun ), but the companies that makes these games do deserve to be paid for their hard work and effort. They honestly do put their hearts and souls into their work. If, by chance, you do download warez games, and you feel that it's a good game, then please go buy it. You honestly can't expect people to keep coming up with great games and getting nothing in return for all of their hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derisor Posted June 28, 2002 Author Share Posted June 28, 2002 Mythren: If it werent for these little jerks they could probably sell them for 30 bucks per game. These little piracy jerks jack up the prices for you and I because they have to figure on x number of stolen games. In the next patch I hpe they intoduce a code that will block you from playing in multiplayer if you have a ripped version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atog006 Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 I'm 13 and theres no way that I could pay for $1000 software such as 3dsmax so what do I do? I pirate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythren Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Originally posted by CoolJ they deserve the money for all their work, this isn't a privelage that you should get... it's mostly kids that rip off software... Please, please, please, don't stereotype (sp?) us. I know that 'kids' (I'll assume this means ages 1-18) do DOWNLOAD the pirated software a lot, but I know for a fact that most of the actual pirating, that is, the cracking and distribution of the software, is done by adults. I'm 15, and live in a smaller town, but, surprisingly, we have a lot of "Computer Geeks". We're all gamers, too (not low-end gamers, in fact - my tech teacher is Helyun [err..I think that's how you spell it...I never played the game] from Quake...2...I believe...and he won 1st or 2nd place in some massive tourneys), and while a few people I know do download warez sometimes, I also know that if they feel it's a good game, they go out and buy it too. I saw my friends hacked copy of JK2, and we both went together and purchased it. I'm not a huge "Baulders Gate-Type Game" guy, but my friend is, and he bought NWN the day it was released, didn't even THINK about warez versions. My point is, young people aren't the problem. We aren't all bad, we don't all have a mindset that we know everything, and most of all, we don't feel that everything in life should be free. We all work for the same amount of money (Unless you payed less than 50 bucks for JK2 ) to get a game like this, and MOST of us actually spend that money ON the game. Case in point: Young people are not bad. P.S. Sorry for ranting on, I know you didn't say much, but I honestly get tired of people assuming that, since we're young, we're automatically bad in some way. Why people seem to have this mindset is completely beyond me...but I was playing JK2 the other day, some guys were cussing eachother out and calling them "stupid 15yr olds living with mommy and daddy playing games that are too old for them" and what not...just pisses me off. Oh yeah, and I owned both of them . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derisor Posted June 28, 2002 Author Share Posted June 28, 2002 Atog: no you dont. You dont use it. Same deal if you cant afford a new motherboard. By your logic, if you cant afford a new motherboard at age 13, that gives you the right to go down to the store and rip it off ? Oh and you made my kill filter and admin report. You little jerks piss me off. YOu know who else you piss off? All the other responsible poeple your age. Why? Because its little thieving criminal jerks like you that give them a bad name. I tell you what you do. You go down and get a job at the local theater and then tell them they dont have to pay you. YOu work for free for hours on end. Maybe that will give you perspective. Just be greatful that I cant contact your parents. But I do wish they would ban you. And yes, Im passionate about the subject. One reason is that I am a Senior Software Engineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derisor Posted June 28, 2002 Author Share Posted June 28, 2002 mythren: We arent your enemies. Its other kids like Atog006 that cause us adults to get such impressions of people in your age group. You should be more pissed at them then we are. If you mow lawns or do chores or whatever to make money for the game, hats off to ya man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythren Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Originally posted by Atog006 I'm 13 and theres no way that I could pay for $1000 software such as 3dsmax so what do I do? I pirate it! That's still wrong. At 13 (I'm 15 now) I could get a job doing just about anything and make 1000 bucks within a month and a half. Depending on where you live, offer to clean someone's house or something, mow lawns. If you live in a more rural, farming-type area, then pick rock, it pays really good. You're also not helping our image either...I just typed a huge thing about kids not being the problem, and you go off and say something like that. Maybe I was wrong...maybe most kids are the problem, and just a few of us feel that we need to be honest in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolJ Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 d'oh, i'm sorry, I didn't mean it like it sounds..... heck I hate stereotyping, in real life i'm wiccan.. >_< ... so I don't appreciate false stereotyping much well, I mean, ... mature a little, .. I know adults also rip off software... but , well, you should work, and pay for the game, not rip it off...... or ask for money to buy it, whichever comes first........ for me I just go around begging for my game fund, and well, I have over 100 playstation games well ... i seriously do have that many games (or at least did I sold 20 of em) and they are all LEGAL, used maybe, but not ripped off copies..... see, if I can amass such a ridicuously large collection of legal games, why can't some1 get a small job, or save up money from your allowence (as in be mature, save up money for something important) and get one game, eh? hehehehe i'm sorry, I don't mean to flame kids....... i'm one of you too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythren Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Originally posted by Derisor mythren: We arent your enemies. Its other kids like Atog006 that cause us adults to get such impressions of people in your age group. You should be more pissed at them then we are. If you mow lawns or do chores or whatever to make money for the game, hats off to ya man. Thanks, good to know that most adults are willing to listen to us . I guess the reason I get so pissed is that gaming has always been an honestly FUN thing for me. It costs money, yeah, but not near as much as some other sports (paintballing comes to mind...ugh...100 bucks in an afternoon). I hope on one day becoming a programmer or designer of some sorts...but I'm not sure on exactly how to get into that field. Ideally, I'd work for PCGamer. Play games all day, write reviews (I've won a few awards for writing from the state, and nationally, so it's not like I'd have to do much there ), and at pretty decent living. I know it's probably more than that, but still - that's what I'd like to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolJ Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 well alright, i don't really have so many games at once... i rent a game, or I buy it for a couple months, and then sell it..... good huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Quote: "I'm 13 and theres no way that I could pay for $1000 software such as 3dsmax so what do I do? I pirate it!" Ahhh, yes...I love this logic...lemme take it a little further: "Oh man I love that cadillac but it's way too expensive...hmmm....I guess my only choice is TO STEAL IT BECAUSE I DESERVE TO GET EVERYTHING MY LITTLE HEART DESIRES!" Like...umm...you don't simply get everything just because you happen to want it. If you don't have enough money to buy the game, guess what?! That's right! You'll just HAVE TO LIVE WITHOUT IT! What a major shock, huh???! Duh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolJ Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 yep just like i said before..... i went to the car show here in NYC, saw a jaguar I liked..... can't afford it......doesn't mean i'm gonna steal the next one i see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythren Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Originally posted by Luc Solar Like...umm...you don't simply get everything just because you happen to want it. If you don't have enough money to buy the game, guess what?! That's right! You'll just HAVE TO LIVE WITHOUT IT! What a major shock, huh???! Duh! Yup, tough for some to understand. I'm in this VERY situation right now : Don't have any money left, even though I have a very nice, well paying job (because I WORKED to get it) as a Technology Support Technician (I love that title...it means I fix the easy stuff ) at a school district, but I spent all my cash on wheels for my car (not even a registered car yet, but Im lookin at the big picture LOL), and - yep - you guessed it, JK2. Warcraft III comes out within the week, but my next paycheck isn't until July 20th. Ohmigosh! What am I gunna do!? I'm going to wait. Warcraft I was probably the game that started it all for me, and I'm gunna have to wait over 20 days before I can buy it's second sequel. Will it kill me? Probably , but I'll deal with it. My friend will probably buy it the day it's released and I'll head over to his house and camp there for a week or so, but I won't actually own it until I can go to the store, purchase it with my own hard-earned money, and proudly display it's box with the rest of my Computer Game Box collection (They're fun to collect, and I really doubt I'm the only one that does it - in fact, I bet there's even another box-collector on these forums!), smell the manual and read as much of it as I can while the game itself installs. Will be a glorious day, but again, I'll have to keep working for it, and wait for it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRock Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Not that I agree with pirating software (I read somewhere that in the country of China, almost 95% of all the software in the country is pirated), however, you gotta admit that some software is FAR to expensive. 3dMax for $1000? MS Office for $500? (Granted, I havent checked prices in AGES...my company provides mne with most of that type of software, and I buy the games) I used to laugh when I worked at *large software retailer* when I'd see the prices. You figure, it costs maybe 4-5 bucks to get the box printed, 10 bucks to put the software on the cd and the cd itself, 1-2 bucks for manuals. Then they charge $1000 for it. Yes, I know, R&D plays a big part, but $1000 for 1 software program? Anyways, to the person that said it costs more to make a game like Jedi Outcast than a blockbuster movie, I'd like to see exactly how much it costs to make a game. Yea, I know its not insignificant, but I doubt its over a couple million. I could be wrong. Most big name stars (Will Smith, Julia Roberts) get 15-20 million to be in the film. This doesnt account for the sets, extras, other stars, advertising, etc. If it takes over 80-100 million dollars to produce a game the level of a Jedi Outcast, then I wouldn't think you'd see so many decent, small software company upstarts producing games equal to or better than JO. Anywho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derisor Posted June 28, 2002 Author Share Posted June 28, 2002 mythren: Programming is an exceedingly rewarding career if you are a puzzle solver. Im a senior programmer that has 6 people working for me. I dont work in the game industry though, I work on maps as just a hobby. My industry is in the area of genetic research. We have soem really large programs. Immagine all 7 of us working on a single program for 2 years. How to get into it? If gaming is your interest you will need a few things. 1) A book on assembly language for basic understanding. You wont need to study it in detail but having the basics is good. 2) A book on C++. Choose the O'Rielly series of books. They are great. 3) A copy of microsoft visual c++. For sure this is what raven uses. 4) Allot of time and patience. Start working through the book, reading up and trying things. The most important thing in programming is to TRY things. DOnt jsut read them. You will actually learn allot by typing in the programs in the book instead of downloading them. Then mess with things. Do allot of "what if I ..." games. After a while you will come to a reasonable comprehension of C++ and be working on more advanced projects. If you get bored with programming one day, fire up map editors, go through tutorials and build some JK2 maps. Read about lighting and modelling. Playing with a program called Povray will teach you allot about modelling. Use Moray as it is shareware and only 80 bucks or so. Keep going and then the best way to break into the industry is to get that college degree. Go for mathematics or physics and NOT computer science. CS courses in college are useless. Teach yourself the programming and ask lots of questions of people on the internet. such as the visual c++ forums. Make sure you work in direct 3d into your self courses. Always start with somethig small and then add to it. 50 little programs working will teach you more then 1 large program that doesnt work. Too young? No. I started programming when I was 12. Wrote my first basic program on the state of the art Apple IIe. :)Wrote my fircs c++ program when I was 16. To break in to the industry, putting out a series of Killer maps with mods, models and so on for your favorite game would look really good on the ol resume. And remember ... all programmers are allowed to be crazy. Its a special perk of the industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nhoj Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Originally posted by Derisor Mythren: If it werent for these little jerks they could probably sell them for 30 bucks per game. These little piracy jerks jack up the prices for you and I because they have to figure on x number of stolen games. In the next patch I hpe they intoduce a code that will block you from playing in multiplayer if you have a ripped version. That's not really accurate because it is based on assumption. Fact: there is piracy. Fact: This game costs $50US full retail. Assumption: 100% piracy elimination = lower prices (I don't think that would happen). Assumption: 100% elimination of piracy means EVERYONE would then buy it. Reality: It just means that SOME will buy it (and have it) and some won't buy it (and not have it/play it). It is a false assumption to think that a pirated copy absolutley means there is a lost sale and it is a false assumption to think that someone who CAN'T pirate the software (if that were possible) will automatically buy it (as opposed to living without). Same holds true for music CDs/mp3s and movies. My arugment here is not what's right and what's wrong; that's been stated a million times. My argument is that the BSA, RIAA, MPAA, and any other publishers assume that 100% piracy = 100% sales loss. Not true. I also believe (opinion) that prices would not drop if piracy could be stopped 100%. Corporations are looking at the bottom line. Eliminating piracy and keeping prices the same would be a double-win for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolJ Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 well ok i'm not saying that this game took more money than the greatest movies ever made, ... i meant that it takes a lot of money to make games, ....... I just exaggerated a slight bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythren Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Originally posted by Derisor And remember ... all programmers are allowed to be crazy. Its a special perk of the industry. That's probably a good thing . My only problem is, I'm an instant-gratification sorta guy, I like things done RIGHT NOW, waiting isn't hard, as long as I don't have to do a ton of learning in the waiting . I'm working on that, though. Mathematics might be tough as well. Not that I don't do alright in math, I'm in the advance course for my agegroup, and I get by alright with B's...and if I put effort fourth I know I could get A's, but that's the thing - I don't like it too much so I don't put effort fourth. For something like programming, though, I might just have to nuke all my old habits and push through, maybe it'll be the career I follow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal-Gon Gin Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 when it comes time to get a job, showing you are willing to put forth the effort (the As) means more than just showing up. Who wants to hire a slacker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythren Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 Originally posted by Cal-Gon Gin when it comes time to get a job, showing you are willing to put forth the effort (the As) means more than just showing up. Who wants to hire a slacker? I know, I know. Very good logic there, and I've been told it many times by many people, but I guess it's never clicked with me...I dunno, I guess I'll just have to start trying harder if I'm serious about making a name for myself in life. I think, "But hey, yer only 15! Go have fun!"...I know that's the wrong mindset, but it's still the one I tend to have a lot of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HertogJan Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 I only buy games that I really really like... I pirated JK2, then I bought it... And as for the BIG software: pirating by use doesn't hurt them that much, it's the use by companies they earn their money with! MS doesn't really care if some people pirate their software, as long as they have their monopoly 5 year licenses with big companies, that's where the real money is... Office is shipped with many PCs, so they earn money with that. They also earn a lot of money out of companies, who are forced to use MS Office (because everyone uses it) and buy it in great quantities (sp?)... And 3DSMax isn't meant for the private users, they customers are mostly game developers, graphic design companies etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heide Posted June 28, 2002 Share Posted June 28, 2002 I recommend Free Software like Gmax, OpenOffice, Staroffice, Linux, and so on. Don´t throw your money into a company that rips you off. Heide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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