Thanks a lot, Whiners

[-=Lord Oz=-]

First...

Realistic? 1.04 is MORE realistic? Let me tell you something, in ANY of the movies, in ANY of the books the saber does not take 10 hits to kill someone with. 1.04 is NOT more realistic. In fact as far as the saber goes, it's less.

 

Second...

I kind of agree with the ankering(sp?) of the backstab/backstlash move. I say kind of because the multiple spins was a little ridiculous, however I think you should be allowed to pivot somewhat. Maybe they should have figured out a way to limit the pivot somehow, I don't know much about the logistics of the coding and how it works in regards to the game so I don't know if this is feesable, but I know that REALISTICLY you should be able to pivot somewhat.

 

Third...

They did NOT need to nerf the damage to backstab. Read the manual to the game people. Backstab is supposed to be an UNBLOCKABLE and DEADLY move, yet hard to time. People got the timing down, which by the way Raven didn't change in the patch. They could have made it harder to hit and left the damage alone but they didn't. The damage the move does should have been left alone.

 

Fourth...

The fixing of pull/push is excellent. I feel this is all that really needed to be done. The problem with 1.03 was that it had made the game full of lightsiders. It was fruitless to use dark because you were guaranteed to get pulled down and backslashed. The only darkside counter was rage, but after the hit plus the self inflicted damage that rage does, you were dead as soon as you recovered. By fixing pull and push alone this would have quieted, IMO, alot of the people that cried about the move. It wasn't backstab itself that most people were mad at, it was the getting pulled down and defenseless then backstabbed that people hated.

 

Fifth...

The "fixing" of lunge. This I don't understand. I didn't think it was that big of a problem. I didn't hear that many people complaining about it. I dunno why they did this, floating was cool.

 

Sixth...

Two patches now, and Raven hasn't fixed the bugs in the CTF map Yavin. The invisible ledges everyone can hang on too. Now they're fun, but if raven was truly fixing bugs to fix bugs then don't you think that these would have been fixed too? Raven isn't fixing bugs just to fix bugs, they're listening to all the people complaining about the game, and then changing it. Whatever they're saying about "This wasn't supposed to work this way" is a bunch of propaganda so that it makes them look to be the good guys. Meanwhile, IMO, they're the bad guys. They've split the JK2 community into 3 mods. 1.02, 1.03, and 1.04. The master servers list is dwindling every day. I wrote a letter to Ken Hoekstra of Raven asking why the damage on backstab was nerfed. Here's what he replied....

 

The 1.03 patch made it so people would do nothing but run around doing the backstab move. Or they would Force Pull people into the backstab and that was all they were doing. No one was using the guns or force powers or other saber moves to do anything.

 

We got hundreds of complaints from people who complained about this. They called it “ass fighting.” The 1.04 patch balances the backstab moves so they’re no longer “instant kill.”

 

--Kenn

 

 

Kenn Hoekstra

Project Administrator/

Director of Support Services

Raven Software Corporation

http://www.ravensoft.com/

 

To me that shows they did this ALL because of complaints about the move. Meanwhile it goes against the INTENTION of backstab as the manual PROVES it was SUPPOSED to be a one hit kill.

 

Granted the patch has allowed people to use the Darkside again without the fear of getting pulled down. This I like, I was a darksider in 1.02, went to light in 1.03 out of neccessity and switch between the two now depending on how I'm feeling.

 

However, the patch has absolutely destroyed CTF Sabers Only games. Most of the servers are empty now. Now I know people are going to say why would you want to play saber only CTF. Well believe it or not, in 1.03 there were ALOT of saber only CTF servers that were always populated. It was alot of fun and we didn't have to worry about the spam of the guns. And these guns are the biggest spam weapons of any MP game I've ever played. Saber Only CTF games now take forever if a flag carrier wants to just run around and not engage in battle. Games are ending 1 to 2 after going 20 minutes of overtime. I think they need to reinstitute the damage to backstab. I think they should un-anker it a bit, if possible, so that you can pivot slightly so as to get back into a defensive position, cause right now the move is useless. Sure if someones behind you, you can take a swipe at them, but then you get their boots in the back of your head. It's better to not do the move at all. Anyways, I've ranted enough about this. I hope Raven fixes this as my chosen mode of game is long, tedious and sometimes boring now.

 

Here's some examples of what saber only ctf has become with the 1.04 patch...

 

 

 

 

everyone just chilling up on map bugs...lotsa fun...sometimes.

[Nobodi Kenobi]

Since I don't even play the game anymore (see my previous post on this thread), you can simply write off the following comments as irrelvant if you want... But if you read them I think it will help define what I am seeing as a major point of contention as it pertains to the recent 1.4 patch adn this debate.

 

What I am sensing from reading all the sides of this discussion is something that no one has come right out and stated yet:

 

Nerfing the base JO game goes beyond Player Perference

 

Let me explain.

 

All of you who say there are three server settings, and a million cvar/svr settings you can use to make the game what you and others want are absolutely right (they do exist) and to me this is what i call Player Preference.

 

Just like in Counter-Strike, Solider of Fortune II and a billion other MP games that involve weapons and other gameplay variables.

 

For example, don't want to play on a server with the AWP? Fine. They have those. Don't wanna play on a server with Friendly Fire on? Not a problem. Want to play with Rocket Launchers/Grenades disabled? We can do that for you as well.

 

It's things like this that are purely player prefrence based and does NOT effect the base game that you are playing...

 

...And here is the key to why I believe it is very relevant to this discussion at the moment..

 

Because the base game itself has not been altered and the option to use those weapons and other elements are still there - key - in the long run if you want them.

 

Convesely, Nerfing the Base Game is where the actual elements within the game itself have been altered to the point where you as a player DO NOT have the choice as to what you are going to use or how you are going to play the game because those altered elements are essentially making the decision for you.

 

Does this make sense?

 

Current saber damage is prime example of this (among other things).

 

The 1.3 patch was a prime example of this as well (pro and con).

 

Yes, if I was still playing JO, I could go to a server with different variables set to make the saber and other weapons what I "think" it should be like... My "preference..."

 

But the fact of the matter is, I shouldn't have to do that.

 

Why?

 

Because my main concern -- and the thing that a few others in the community have brought up on ocassion -- Is by the time Raven/L.A. is done "fixing" this game, will I even have the opportunity of being able to use player perference in selecting how I want to play JO? Because the base game has been nerfed (altered) to the point where there ARE NO CHOICES for me at all?

 

You all understand what I am saying, correct?

 

I know this might seem overly dramatic for something as trivial as a video game... But I feel that if a distinction is made between Nerfing the base game and player preference then I think a common ground can be found by those on both sides of the debate...

 

And more importantly, if Raven/L.A. realizes that these two things are NOT the same then perhaps THEY will realize that what they did (are doing) to this game through previous and possibly future patches is going beyond letting the Mod Community "have fun" with what they've created, but is in fact stiffling the original game to the point where -- as Homosexual Ewok said -- People will NOT recommend it because, ironically, there are either A) to many settings and variable styles of play or most likely, not enough because those specific elements which would have normally attracted them to the game are pointless or simply "window dressing" with no real use in the game in it's current form.

 

I'd hate to be Raven/L.A. and be faced with what I just proposed because it is a lose-lose situation anyway you put it from a business perspective and more importantly, from a developer/gaming community pespective as well.

 

Peace

[Spider AL]

This statement stops short of explaining what you believe they failed to notice in 1.02.

 

That's because I explain it fully in the first paragraph of my reply to Ewok. Please read messages fully in future son.

 

I am commenting on the official patch. We can not have a intelligent discussion relative to 1.04 if we allow comments on what admins can change.

 

Don't be idiotic, of course we can: If you wanted every JO server to be "one Jedi versus a bunch of gunners" people would tell you to stop whining and go to a Jedi Master server. If you wanted every JO server to be "Insta-gib" people would tell you to stop whining and go to a server where they're running the 'disruption' mod. If you wanted every JO server to be a team of Jedi vs. a team of gunners, people would tell you to stop whining and go to a server where Jedi v. Merc is enabled.

 

Likewise, if you're unhappy with sabre damage, there are already a range of servers with ramped up damage, as you well know. There is no need for the game, the rest of the community and every player in it to conform to your star-wars canon puritan view of what Jedi combat should be like.

 

The very fact that so many are seeking to raise damagescale and reduce the defensive ability, is evidence that the patch has been made incorrectly.

 

It's evidence that people want to play that mode, and good on them. But if you start campaigning for everyone else in the world to be forced to play nothing but your favourite mode, you deserve to be spat upon. I give as much credence to people who come onto FFA servers and complain that nobody will duel with them, as I give to you.

 

I do not need a smug old man calling me son and othewise insulting me.

 

Yes you do. You admitted quite plainly in your previous post that:

 

YES I think MY way of thinking should be imposed on others

 

And that stupid statement strips you of any rights to respectability, strips you of credibility, and removes any defence you may have had against even the most ludicrous and reaching insults. Count yourself lucky that it's only me here insulting you. I'm mild. You waxed section of a catatonic squid's fecal matter.

 

are there more then one of you in that little head of yours?

 

Actually yeah, there's the me who loves reading your frankly amusing slices of abortive gibberish because it gives him a laugh, and there's the more serious me who wishes fools like yourself who want to impose their dubious ideas on others would be erased from existence.