Darth Windu Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 that isnt a solution sithmaster, and why should we have to do more micromanagement because lucasarts stuffed up? Also, you say that we've only seen one civ's AAM's shooting at air and ground. That might have something to do with the fact that we have never seen any other civ's AAM's. For all you know, they might all have the same ability. As for the troops/mechs/air thing. The current mech destroyers would become a light assault mech that would be less effective, but faster, faster to build and cheaper. I also dont see why the AAM would have to be made less effective, and with the troops, did you see the battle of hoth? I would suggest that if you want to see my idea's in practice, go and buy the original Command & Conquer. The unit equivalents would be (for GDI) Assault Mech - Mammoth Tank Light Assault Mech - Medium Tank Anti-Air Mobile - Rocket Launcher / MLRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by Sithmaster_821 Also, with the medics and the aa, dont put them in the same group as your troops/mechs. Yeah, I've taken to doing this now that I've been using hotkeys more to group my units. It's kinda annoying and would be much better if medics/AA just didn't swarm in, but at least it works (requires a bit more micromanaging though). Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Windu that isnt a solution sithmaster, and why should we have to do more micromanagement because lucasarts stuffed up? Also, you say that we've only seen one civ's AAM's shooting at air and ground. That might have something to do with the fact that we have never seen any other civ's AAM's. For all you know, they might all have the same ability. But by the same token, we didn't see the Republic Assault Mechs (least, not that I remember) nor the Trade Federation Assault Mechs attack air, though it's quite possible they have the ability. Yet, even if they DO have the ability, only the AT-ATs have the upgrade in the game (unless one plays "all techs"). Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Well said kryllith. Windu, its only more micro for those who dont know how to group units using a type/speed grouping, which has other benefits. Use your brain and dont attack units that you cant attack with that specific group. If you want your aa or medics to go with your troops, put them in a separate group and place them on the follow command. Only newbs glob all of their units into one group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 6, 2002 Author Share Posted August 6, 2002 This is another problem with the game, the amount of micromanagement. Why should i have to put my AAM's on follow instead of grouping them? I can't think of any other RTS i have played that has the same problem with units such as medics, AAM's etc. However i still think the game would benefit from a merger of the AAM and mech destroyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 The benefits of grouping by type and by speed allows one to effectively counter or assault enemy forces. It also decreases the micro of having to individually target the aa on air, the mechs on troops, and the medics on healing. Doing that, along with a good econ/tech level times and learning the hotkeys, is instrumental in becoming a good player. i still think the game would benefit from a merger of the AAM and mech destroyer Aside from helping you beat the comp on easy, how does it make the game better? Please respond intelligently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 Windu, I have a suggestion for you. Don't post for a few months, and get semi-good at the game. Go from a newbie to a good rook, or at least a regular rook. Then come back and see if you still like your ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 7, 2002 Author Share Posted August 7, 2002 sithmaster, the reasons for merging the mech destroyer/anti-air mobile and creating a new light assault mech are- - reduced micromanagement - more 'realism' - altered gameplay and strategies - anti-air mobile more useful - cheaper, less powerful assault mech for tech 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted August 7, 2002 Share Posted August 7, 2002 1. same amount of micro for those of us who use groups properly 2. less realism-just because it kills a mech doesnt make it a mech destroyer. Looking for realism? See what the others suggested. 3. Yep, its called mass the aam or be destroyed by your enemy's aams 4. I thought they were very effective already. 5. Can you say uber-unit? Listen to others, they are far smarter than you are. And since you dont get the whole gameplay over realism, Bruce Shelley will explain here and here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Windu cheaper, less powerful assault mech for tech 3 So it will be an all-powerful unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 Click my links. I found them very informative (even if you dont like AoM). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 8, 2002 Author Share Posted August 8, 2002 How did you two figure that the AAM and light assault mech (LAM) would be 'uber' units? As i said, the AAM would only be effective against mechs, and easily destroyer by infantry. Also, the LAM would be, as i said, like the assault mech only cheaper, faster, much less powerful, less hp's, less armour etc. An all-round unit that would be effective against almost everything, just not as effective vs infantry as the strike mech, not as effective vs mechs as the AAM etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Windu How did you two figure that the AAM and light assault mech (LAM) would be 'uber' units? As i said, the AAM would only be effective against mechs, and easily destroyer by infantry. Also, the LAM would be, as i said, like the assault mech only cheaper, faster, much less powerful, less hp's, less armour etc. An all-round unit that would be effective against almost everything, just not as effective vs infantry as the strike mech, not as effective vs mechs as the AAM etc. Whether LucasArts was able to find a way to balance your rediculous idea or not, it would reduce the importance of combined arms. Why do you want the game simpler Windu? Do you want to just build 200 AAM's and be able to take down mechs, and air, and even troops with those kind of numbers? You need to learn strategy, not try to make the game simpler so that you can beat the AI on easiest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted August 9, 2002 Share Posted August 9, 2002 How did you two figure that the AAM and light assault mech (LAM) would be 'uber' units? Youve got two options, take your pick: 1. The unit strength in killing mechs and air stay the same, thus creating a uber unit (it takes 5 fu repeaters to kill 1 fu mech destroyer). or 2. The unit is cut down for balance purposes and mechs/air rein supreme because their main couter is now weaker than before. Also, why in the world do you want a 3rd age assault mech. It doesnt fit in gameplay, not in the movies, is it only because you used it in C&C and liked it and want it in this game? If so that is soooo pathetic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 9, 2002 Author Share Posted August 9, 2002 simwiz - building 200 AAM's would be like building (in ground war terms) 200 mech destroyer's. Would you seriously send 200 mech destroyer's up against, say 200 repeater troopers or 200 grenade troopers? sithmaster - as i said, the LAM would be an all-round unit that you would be able to build in order to field a nice mech army before gaining access to the assault mech. As i said, go and play Command & Conquer: Red Alert, it is the only way you are really goinjg to understand the changes i am proposing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Windu simwiz - building 200 AAM's would be like building (in ground war terms) 200 mech destroyer's. Would you seriously send 200 mech destroyer's up against, say 200 repeater troopers or 200 grenade troopers? Grenade troopers? No. But who would build 200 grenade troopers? Laser troopers? Yes! It takes some 3-5 laser troopers to take out a mech destroyer, depending on each unit's civ. So unless they got around the max pop and have 600 laser troopers, my units are quite safe. I once played against someone who built an army based around mech destroyers (we were both empire). IIRC empire is missing an important grenadier upgrade, and I had nowhere near the number of mech destroyers needed to counter it, and my grenadiers didn't work too well. He had air superiority also. I lost. And yes, he did send ~60 mech destroyers up against 40 laser troopers and 5 assault mechs, and a few grenadiers and other units, so mech destroyers can't be too bad against troopers. Now cost effectively, OTOH, they are very bad against troopers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy_Of_Sith Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 No offense Windu, but all your mergers would really dumb the game down. The game would be too simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 14, 2002 Author Share Posted August 14, 2002 *sigh* go and play Command & Conquer then get back to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memezcom Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Seems to have reached a stalemate this debate! If I recall, Lucasarts do browse these fan forums... If not, then forward your idea to them... Or ultimately, become a game designer yourself... I simply enjoyed the game for what it was and am not bothered about these sort of 'fine details'...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy_Of_Sith Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Windu I've played nearly every game in the C+C series, and they're great. But a star wars game is not worthy of stupid tank rushes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 15, 2002 Author Share Posted August 15, 2002 well if you have played C&C, my idea for the mech destroyer / AAM merger would be like the GDI missile launcher / MLRS from the original. Besides, if they have all this advanced technology, why would they create a unit that can only fire at aircraft when they could produce units that could fire at air and ground units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 *shrugs* If that's the case, why not give all the assault mechs anti-air capability, not just the mini-assault mechsssssss you're proposing? Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 16, 2002 Author Share Posted August 16, 2002 i'm not saying that the light assault mech would get Anti-Air capability, it wouldnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted August 17, 2002 Share Posted August 17, 2002 Ah, I thought you were planning to merge the current mech destroyers with the AA Artillery to produce the light assault mechs. Guess I read it wrong. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 17, 2002 Author Share Posted August 17, 2002 No, my idea is to change the mech destroyer and AAM to form- 1. AAM that also has mech destroyer abilities, but is ineffective against anything else (ie ships, infantry etc) 2. Light Assault Mech that would would be cheaper, faster, faster to build and available a tech level earlier than the Assault mech, but no troop carrying ability, less hp's, less armour and less firepower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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