jcb231 Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 Sithmaster....I don't know if you've somehow seen some secret director's cut of Episode II or something, but the line about 20 jedi leaving the order was not in the movie. It was edited out of the final cut. Go ahead and watch it again if you don't believe me. Maybe it'll be on the DVD but I doubt it...GL's rule the last time around was that he would only finish deleted scenes of reasonable length, and that was just a throw-away random line. I assume it was cut because George Lucas didn't want to limit himself to 20 if he should want more dark jedi for some reason. And maybe also because he thought the library scene was dragging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfmanNCSU Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 The 20 Jedi that left the order are the "Lost 20" they spoke of in AotC. Dooku was one of them, the most recent to leave and the most powerful one to do so as well. He is a little info about the 20 from the SW Databank here. The info is about halfway down or so. Hope this helps to clear some stuff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted August 17, 2002 Share Posted August 17, 2002 Wolfman, as jcb231 said, the "Lost Twenty" was NOT spoken of in Episode II. That makes it EU and not good evidence in a Star Wars mythology argument. As for Sevrance Tann, which I believe this thread was about, this is how I took it: We are definitely in agreeance that she is not a Sith Lord. Also, it isn't mentioned in the campaigns that she knows that Dooku is a Sith Lord named Tyranus. I assumed she was Dooku's apprentice who followed him when he left, and he has kept teaching her about the Force, but taught her the Dark Side instead of the Light Side. When she tells Echuu to join her side, it's similar to Dooku asking Obi-Wan to side with him. It's nothing to do with the Sith, but more to do with the fact that the Republic is a weak government that is abusing the Jedi's protection, and any sensible Jedi should not stand for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 17, 2002 Author Share Posted August 17, 2002 actually, the 'lost 20' was in the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcb231 Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 Darthwindu--- Actually, it wasn't, and I challenge you to find it. It WAS in the early leaked script bits and was apparently shot on film, but WAS NOT in the movie. It seems to have wound up on the cutting room floor along with Padme's family, Ki-Adi's mission to shut down the droids, and most of Bail Organa's role. Seriously, go watch it carefully and listen and you'll see. All that is discussed is that Dooku was once a Jedi but has left the order. No mention is made of the "Lost Twenty," and the scene in which Obi-Wan studies Dooku's bust in the library is cut. The busts are still in the background of some shots, but no dialogue refers to them. Unless of course the international version is seriously different than that which us Americans saw, but I doubt they would change such a major scene as the lost 20 for international audiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 21, 2002 Author Share Posted August 21, 2002 I am telling you, i saw the 'lost 20' bit in the movie. Which version did you see? I remember there being two version, the old sort, and a fully digital version, or something like that. I think there was some extra footage in the fully digital version, which is the one i saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yodayoda Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Well I know there were 2 versions. In the version I saw the lost 20 wasn't in it. AND Yoda rocks :yoda: hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethro Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Who cares?! Jethro, it doesn't matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcb231 Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Y'know Windu, I've never really done this before....but.... Prove it. Everything I've heard to date has said that the digital version's differences (besides being of a much higher quality) from the regular were exceedingly minor (ie...longer shots of this or that, slight changes of body positions) and did not involve any actual dialogue changes. There was actually a reader question answered by Rick McCallum on the official site that refers to differences between the two versions....go ahead and look it up under archived jedicouncil questions. As he says, the differences were very minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 23, 2002 Author Share Posted August 23, 2002 jcb - i dont know how many times i have to say this before you believe me, but the line about the 'lost 20' was in the film i saw. It's not a debate, it is fact whether you want to believe it or not. There is no way for me to prove it to you, as its not on at the cinema's and not out on DVD yet, but then by the same token, i challenge you to disprove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfmanNCSU Posted August 23, 2002 Share Posted August 23, 2002 Not to defend on who is right and who is wrong, but the "Lost 20" are not EU, however many EU stories have been written about each of the Jedi. They are in fact a real part of SW. There is a filmed scene that was removed in the final cut, that explains that Dooku was the last of the 20 that left the Jedi Council. Hopfuly, this scene will be featured on the DVD release in Nov. The bust in the archieves are all of the "Lost 20." This is all written in the Offical Star Wars Data Bank (which contains info from the movie, EU, and behind the scene) and are referenced in the movie. Also, here is a part of the deleted scene, straight from the Star Wars Insider that I found was interesting. Its the librarian helping Obi Won as he is staring at a bust of Dooku him self. I hope this helps out some on the arguement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoL ShadowJedi Posted August 24, 2002 Share Posted August 24, 2002 sev'rance tann was a dark acolyte not a sith or dark jedi so that solves that look at databank on SWGB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcb231 Posted August 24, 2002 Share Posted August 24, 2002 Yes, yes, I KNOW what the scene was about and I KNOW it was filmed and I've read the script of it, blah blah....I'm still 100% insistant, however, that it WAS edited out of the final cut. I want to see Darth Windu's magical version of the movie now...does it play on regular movie screens or only in your mind? I even took the time to ask various online SW sites about this to try to get my claim backed up and all of them came back with the same response: it was filmed but removed from the final cut and therefore not released to theatres. Are you sure you're not just imagining it was in there because you've read the script excerpts online? The lost 20 was not in the final cut of the film and is therefore technically EU, like the Biggs on Tatooine scene in ANH or the ROTJ sandstorm scene or the Wampa Echo Base attack in ESB, or the Greedo/Anakin fight in TPM. I'm not denying that its not a good scene or worthwile to the original debate of this thread, I'm just saying it IS NOT IN THE FILM. If something was cut from any SW film it was for a reason...maybe GL wants to contradict the lost 20 statement in ep III and didn't want to box himself in. Hmm...I guess I can't prove that its not in there any more than you can prove your (wrong) claim, but it's true. Just go see the darn film again and you'll see for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted August 25, 2002 Author Share Posted August 25, 2002 jcb - this is going anywhere. I say its in the film, you say it isnt. There is no way for either of us to prove our point's, so how about we just drop it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcb231 Posted August 25, 2002 Share Posted August 25, 2002 OK...fine...I'll drop it. We'll settle this when the DVD comes out....unless of course that lousy George adds the scene into the DVD and then I'll have no way of proving myself right. Anyone live in a country where AOTC is still playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoL ShadowJedi Posted August 25, 2002 Share Posted August 25, 2002 i agree, the mentioning of the lost 20 in ep 2 werent in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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