oddjob: A-Team Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 My accusation hasn't changed at all. It's still the same one. You downloaded a model that was released for gameplay use ONLY and passed it off as your own work. That's it. There hasn't been any other accusations. As for your example of the Anakin model, I have addressed that already. But for the slow people here it is again: There is a difference between models 'looking' similar becuase they are based on the same subject matter, and models that are GEOMETRICALLY similar because they came from the same base model. If you can't understand that, then you really don't know anything about modeling. Two models can look similar because they are based on the same material, in your example, Anakin. But there are as many ways to go about making a model as there are modelers. So each model, while similar in look in a general sense, they are different when you look at their underlying geometery. But in the case of oreo's trinity's model, the similarities are on a GEOMETRIC level. That doesn't happen becuase you are modeling the same thing. That ONLY happens if you copied or used the original model. And ANYBODY that has a decent grasp of modeling knows what I am talking about. And they could also see that I am not just making baseless accusations. I HAVE presented evidence. More than enough to most modeleres I might add. As for not arguing this here, that's nonsense. He's the one that declared publicly that the model was his work and it is in this same public forum that he should be proved to be a theif and a liar. It's only a matter of time until some other modelers come in here an cooborate what oreo and I already know and further make him look the fool. He could just admit it now, but he chooses to keep up the lie instead. He keeps posting new, more modified versions of the HL model and doens't post the originals, the ones he removed from the first post, that really prove my case. Why is that? You can see the low poly 'mitten' hands and the high heel shoes and everything. But even with all his modifications, you can STILL tell it's the same model, just modified. Belive me, I do not make this accusation lightly. I would not be posting here if I were not 100% sure, beyond ANY doubt that he stole that model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBell Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 so why not take this argument up to PMs?? You shouldnt bother the community by interupting someone's thread... if you believed that this was someones model, well then PM him and tell him.. these forums are for showing progress, which is what Oreo has been doing.. Im not saying he stole the Model... and im not saying he didnt.. i just think that we should all get on with out lives and keep on modeling... If its that big of a problem to you... well then take it up with K-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBell Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 oh and Oreo... i dont think age matters in these forums... only productivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Vertex Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 hmm, I decdied to participate int his thread, becasue I also feel that the models are too much indentical. couple of questions What modeling program are you using? why did you take the orginail pics down? why did you choose that particular outfit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBell Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Well, glad you could join this great big flame war Musahi... your basically the only person on this thread that i actually respect so i guess ill just sit back and se if Oreo ever responds to and replys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twisted Vertex Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Glad to be aboard, sir. Ok now your probably thinking. What a werid question to be asking, on what modeling program he is using. Surely though somebody who CREATED this model from scratch would be able to enlighten us on a few things. The torso section use two materials. The cream color and the black color from the shirt. Just curious if you could enighten us on how you managed this effect. I know it sounds silly, but if you truly made this model from scracth then you have the knowledge to perform such a task. Becasue i noticed even in your beinnning stages of the model, you included the clothing. Why in such an early stage of the model, would you include the materials? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBell Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 and the wait for an answer from oreo........BEGINS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonces Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 I have a great amount of respect for oddjob, even though I beleive I've never spoken to him. His work speaks volumes. There are a few things that havent been mentioned that really make it obvious. The sunglasses are in exactly the same position, and the stem is the same width and legnth. The posture is also a dead giveaway, I dont think I could get it that close, even if I had the wireframe sitting right in front of me. The ears are another dead giveaway, the shape, position, size, all the same. It seems like some verts could have been easily pushed around then a meshsmooth modifier added. 4473 is a redicliously high polycount for such a simple model I dont know Oreo, and I really dont know Oddjob either, but being familiar with Oddjobs work, and knowing how difficult it would be to get an origional model that close would be quite a feat. All I'm saying is that it looks very suspicious Toonces http://www.drivingcatstudios.com Powered by Sith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBell Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 ya scared the kid away.... looks like another hoax.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 1. Oddjob is correct. 2. Your poly count is way off for that model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striderx2048 Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 solution: start over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mix_Master2k Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 holy crap, well that was quite....ummm. it was quite. Is anyone reeaaally doing a model of trinity? Is anybody stealing and converting? is anybody not responding to other peoples questions (cough cough OREO cough a hem ::clears throat:: sorry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreo Posted August 14, 2002 Author Share Posted August 14, 2002 1) i didnt run away... dude i have to sleep... 2) i used max 4.2 3) the torson only has 1 material so u were wrong... i just used 'smoothing groups' and set them to be the same... if u dont believe me try to create a sphere and set its polys to have the same smoothing group... 4) my first posts WERE NOT material colors... they were simply OBJECT COLORS... and therefore thats also y it dindt look 'smooth' also i saw in alot of other posts for eg the fat bastard post he also included colors in early stages, dont see anything wrong about that... 5) u were rite i did take the hands, shades and ears from someone (someon gave them to me) else but i dont see how theres anything wrong about that since they were insignificant parts and most models look the same on those 6) i still dont understand how my 'geometry' is 'exactly the same' as urs cuz obviously it isnt... if u dont believe ill post a wireframe pic later on and ALONG with the original pics... 7) i took original pics down in the first place cuz i had limited bandwidth and space and dindt want ppl to just look on the first page and see the first progress as the newest ones r on the last page ( i realized that ppl wont read and they just looked to the first pics and saw it wasnt that great and then not comment on it) 8) if u read the request thread u would know y i chose that outfit 9) my poly is off? damn some idiot b4 told me kyle has 4.5k polys 10) the shades r in the same position? i dont think so... i tried to match em up, and magically yes for some reason they were relative in size and shape very close (maybe the original creator also didnt make his own shades as these 'assesories' can be easily downloaded) but mine is still diff cuz i modified it, and they R NOT THE SAME WIDTH AND LENGTH the distace from the eye to the ear r not even the same... 11) the face looks very diff IMO i dunno how u can say it looks the same 12) how the hell can the posture be a 'dead giveaway' almost every model ive seen stands in the same way, and mine fits perfectly to the skeleton... 'shape, position, size, etc' R NOT THE SAME I HAVE NO IDEAD HOW U GOT THAT, if u looked at side view and front view the sizes r VERY different, and i spent ALOT of time making the torson and the legs almost IDENTICAL to the original Trinity based the on large number of refs i used 13) pls also help me explain as i mentioned b4 how the 2 jarjar models can look almost exactly the same but made by 2 diff people (just as an example that things like that can happen, PLUS not even mentionaing my models poly structure is compeltely diff, as ull see in the pics ill post later) 14) yes im more than happy to answer any 'how i did that' questions as i DID make the model and i know wut i did... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreo Posted August 14, 2002 Author Share Posted August 14, 2002 o and if u sersiously think i 'stole' ur model ive already contacted the original modeler that made ur HL model... if neccessary ill just remake her... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreo Posted August 14, 2002 Author Share Posted August 14, 2002 HERE R THE GOD DAMN WIREFRAME PICS COMPARE THEM... model u claimed i 'stole' : http://oreo8.netfirms.com/trinragewire.jpg MY MODEL: http://oreo8.netfirms.com/trinwire4.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreo Posted August 14, 2002 Author Share Posted August 14, 2002 TH DAMN ORIGNAL PICS! http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinback3.jpg http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinfnt3.jpg http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trintop3.jpg http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinside3.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob: A-Team Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Ok, how about posting a pic of it WITHOUT the laughably obvious mesh smooth modifier? What's funny now is the more you try to give reasons for it looking similar but not being the same model, the more obvious it is to anybody that actually understands modeling. You just took the ears and sunglasses? Two incredibly simple things to model but you had to get them from 'somebody'? And to top it all off, you even bothered to do the right thing and contact the original modeler, supposedly. Although, I never posted any contact info. So where did you happen to get it from? Let me guess... The readme that originally CAME with the model. The same one that probably says not to use it with out giving him credit? Now, if you would just admit it and get on with life. You know, one of the nice things about the internet is that you are fairly anonymous. You could just go away for a while, change your name and in the mean time actually LEARN how to model rather than just modify, and then come back as a totaly new person with work that is actually yours and nobody will care. But keeping this fatally obvious lie up is just digging you deeper and deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob: A-Team Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by oreo TH DAMN ORIGNAL PICS! http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinback3.jpg http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinfnt3.jpg http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trintop3.jpg http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinside3.jpg HAHA! Those aren't the originals and you know it. Why are you lying if the model is actually yours? The originals still had the mittened hands and the ones after that had the JKII hands but they had that import bug that makes all the normals inverted. These pics are the 3rd generation of screenshots. Hell, they are even labeled trinback3 trinfnt3, etc. More proof that those aren't the originals is right there in Kman's post. You can't edit that out thankfully. digits to her club hands, etc. So why not show the pics that he was refering to? Or how about the ones YOU were refering to when you posted: btw if anyone of u expert modelers can tell me, theres a problem with the hands, im sure that the hand attaches to the forearm perfectly but for some reason part of it seems to be invisible making it look like theres a gap in between anyone know wut the problem might be? anyways here r the pics: ============================= DRAG THE LINKS TO YOUR ADDRESS BAR ============================= page 2 for newest model update Which you so convieniently edited out. But you couldn't edit ALIEN_JL's message either. So you can see the original links, even though you took down the pic's to destroy the evidence. Why don't you get it thorught you thick skull that the jig is up. You can't possibly pull off this sort of thing in anway. The modeling community is too damn small for somebody not to notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by oreo HERE R THE GOD DAMN WIREFRAME PICS COMPARE THEM... model u claimed i 'stole' : http://oreo8.netfirms.com/trinragewire.jpg MY MODEL: http://oreo8.netfirms.com/trinwire4.jpg Dude, it's the same thing, except with the arms/legs placed differently, JO hands tacked on and a completely obvious smooth mesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreo Posted August 14, 2002 Author Share Posted August 14, 2002 1) its not a mesh smooth i never applied any mesh smooth cuz someone told me it wasnt a good idea(if u actually go and read the first page instead of saying how i took off the pics on teh first posts to 'get rid of evidence', which i wasnt cuz its completely logical to take them off given my limited bandwidth), i smoothed it manualy by hand... and ur such a f-ucking liar cuz u can so obviously tell that mesh smooth doenst smooth polygons the way mine look like... 2) uhh i downloaded the model u gave me and found out who made it... how hard is that... 3) im still waiting for his reply 4) the 3 ones r the only ones i have left... i dont keep all of them... 5) yes those parts were easy to model, but y bother if there r accessories to download 6) EVEN IF i did use that model as base, WTF makes u think i wont contact the author or give him credit 7) IF he said i can use it (even tho i never did)and i can continue my work ITS STILL MY MODEL... im not ripping him off and releasing it wihtout giving him credit... i would only have used his as a reference, the poly constuction itself is so diff that it can just be counted as a seperate original model 8) u still havent answered any of the questions i asked u about the jarjar models and y the f-uck do u think my poly constuction looks so diff if i did 'copy the exact model without changing a thing' 9) im planning on neo and morpheus after trinity now u tell me where the f-uck do u think i will 'copy' those..... 10) even tho given circumstances above u cant say the model is not original because the poly construction itself is unique, u said so urself, its the constuction and how the modeler models it that make the models diff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreo Posted August 14, 2002 Author Share Posted August 14, 2002 and emon i dont know wuts wrong with ur eyes but THOSE R NOT THE SAME WIREFRAME .... WTF .... my poly constuction is so obviouisly different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreo Posted August 14, 2002 Author Share Posted August 14, 2002 kman if u wish u can close this thread or do wutever u want if ur reading this, i will start a new one without all these BS once i get my reply from that 'original author' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob: A-Team Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/trinity/trinwireproof.jpg The most obvious thing is labeled 'A' in the pic linked to above. Why would you model the tank-top INTO the model? For the HL version there was an obvious reason, namely the chrome shading effect. Each polygon that you would want to have that effect would need to have the same material. You can't paint half a polygon and have the other half chromed. Which is why the tank top was modeled into the mesh. But for some reason, even with your pathetic attempt at meshsmoothing, you modeled yours in EXACTLY the same way. Why is that? With a game like JKII you don't need to model in something that you can do with the skin by just painting it in.(be careful, there really is no answer to this as any modeler will tell you, that WON'T incriminate you) 'B' and 'C' are just examples of lines that are not hidden by the mesh smooth. See, the mesh smooth modifier doesnt' change the underlying geometry, it just adds geometry to round out hard edges. So the lines that are there in the lower poly version you stole from are still in the mesh smoothed one you posted a pic of. I provided examples of two obvious ones. Anybody can see plenty more. http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/trinity/trinwireproof2.jpg In this pic, what the hell did you add that little box for? In exactly the same place? And why is it missing from the mesh smoothed wireframe pic you posted? Oh, look what I just found!!!! On page two of this thread. Twins of Doom was kind enough to link to the second versions of your renders. How nice. Here they are again for all to see: http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinbak2.jpg http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trintop2.jpg http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinfnt2.jpg http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/triside2.jpg These are the ones I refered to above with the JKII hands with an import bug causing the hands to have their normals inverted. Here are a few shots I whipped up as FURTHER proof. http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/trinity/trinproof3.jpg This is just the HL model mesh, and "oreo's mesh" side by side. You can see the facets on "oreo's" line up perfectly with the wireframe from the HL model with the exception of a few verts he pushed, like the one between the breasts. http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/trinity/trinproof4.jpg And here is the same two pic's with the wiremesh overlayed on top of "oreo's mesh" with the wire mesh slowly fading away. You can CLEARLY see from these that they are the same model. The heads are EXACTLY the same shape. The vast majority of the mesh lines up perfectly. What's funny is that you could have just admitted it on page three and saved a little face by asking the ACTUAL author right after I let you know the jig was up. But you have to keep pushing and pushing and pushing and making yourself look more the fool every post. GET IT THROUGH YOU HEAD, YOU HAVE BEEN EXPOSED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddjob: A-Team Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by oreo kman if u wish u can close this thread or do wutever u want if ur reading this, i will start a new one without all these BS once i get my reply from that 'original author' Oh, and why bother getting the original authors reply if I am not right? Just admit you stole it and save some face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mix_Master2k Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 hmmmm....hard to see the dark side is, no its not, its rather clear with oddjobs investigation that they are the same model. point, set, and match, winner oddjob. good job odd job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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