razorace Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Very true. I think the reason people complain about MP so much is because they don't "feel" like they're in a "real" saber battle. I've been studying the movies and there are certain rules that apply to movie battles that simply aren't in JK2 MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted August 12, 2002 Author Share Posted August 12, 2002 Players will always find and use that which is most effective for the current situation. This logic tells us that "nerfing" will only serve to cause people to change there move of choice and locate another. This will not prevent spamming. It will just create an enviroment where people spam different moves. For example, 1.02 DFA spam, 1.03 BS spam, and 1.04 Lunge and Kick spam. Make more options and find a way to limit use (maybe a force requirment for special moves) and you will have players finding their own style of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Why in the world does this thread even exist? It's about people complaining about saberblocking in the game... and if you don't like the blocking, I know how you can get past it. What you do is go to your local greenery, buy some seeds, go home, go into the backyard, plant them, water them, and GROW SOME SKILL YOU 'TARD! Sorry, I don't mean to be rude... but how can blocking be that much of a problem? Say everything is enabled in the server, in which scenario if they have their saber out, switch to some explosive weapon and anihilate them. If weapons are disabled, you have TONS of force powers to get through the blocking, and if you're not smart enough to use them to break through the defense well... let's hope you're smart enough. If it is saber only with no force powers you can still kick some blockin' arse. Think about it, they start blockin' like mad... so KICK THEM IN THE FACE. Try lunging, it breaks their blocking for a short time. Try getting behind them. They can't do the Obi-Wan Episode 1 back-blocking bullcrap. Backstabbing breaks through as well, and kills them instantly. Try doing a backsweep: if they're faced in the right orientation, you can cut off their legs from mid-shin down. Try ANY Strong swing to break the defense and attack with light, or just pound their arse with Strong until they wise up. Really, there are too many things to be done for you to even start a post and whine. Though I'm not saying everyone whines, not at all. That's my 2 cents on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted August 12, 2002 Author Share Posted August 12, 2002 Originally posted by Catch Why in the world does this thread even exist? It's about people complaining about saberblocking in the game... and if you don't like the blocking, I know how you can get past it. What you do is go to your local greenery, buy some seeds, go home, go into the backyard, plant them, water them, and GROW SOME SKILL YOU 'TARD! Sorry, I don't mean to be rude... but how can blocking be that much of a problem? You obviously do mean to be rude so why lie about it? You're an ass and you've proven it, so now for the rest of your post.... Originally posted by Catch Say everything is enabled in the server, in which scenario if they have their saber out, switch to some explosive weapon and anihilate them. I am speaking of saber only, if you bothered to read my first post you would have noticed "Playing saber only CTF-" Originally posted by Catch If weapons are disabled, you have TONS of force powers to get through the blocking, and if you're not smart enough to use them to break through the defense well... let's hope you're smart enough. Really? Which are these wonderful force powers? Because most people switch on absorb when you try to use them. Lightning causes people to run away, and force pull and push do not work on players standing still very well. Originally posted by Catch If it is saber only with no force powers you can still kick some blockin' arse. Think about it, they start blockin' like mad... so KICK THEM IN THE FACE. Try lunging, it breaks their blocking for a short time. Try getting behind them. They can't do the Obi-Wan Episode 1 back-blocking bullcrap. They can't block behind their back? We must be playing on different version because I see lots of back blocking. Sure you can kick them but doesn't it seem dumb to have to resort to special moves and kicks to break the block of a players standing still and doing nothing? Originally posted by Catch Backstabbing breaks through as well, and kills them instantly. Try doing a backsweep: if they're faced in the right orientation, you can cut off their legs from mid-shin down. BS does NOT kill anyone instantly as it has been nerfed. Do you even play this game? Because that was the MAJOR change between 1.03 and 1.04. Originally posted by Catch Try ANY Strong swing to break the defense and attack with light, or just pound their arse with Strong until they wise up. Really, there are too many things to be done for you to even start a post and whine. Though I'm not saying everyone whines, not at all. That's my 2 cents on that. This is just false, I have tested this theory and even though it looks like you have broken the block, you havne't. This works when players attempt to move after a heavy connects, otherwise it hits only a small percent of the time. I am sorry but it doesn't seem that you even play this game all that much? Everyone knows that many of your tactics listed work only a small percent of the time. Also the fact that you still think BS is all powerful shows that you really don't know what going on. Please take time to play the game and then post your insulting crap when you have a firm grasp on reality to back it up. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00M-187 Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 If you cant win in 1.04 you suck. plain and simple. 1.04 is all about timing, this is the most even patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Begger Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 ok wait..1.04, if you can't win, you suck? really? This is the most even patch? really? hmm...well if you mean even as in every move now hits the same amount of damage, and is still pretty weak, then yeah I guess. I believe 1.02 was the most even patch. Name ONE thing ONE THING about JK2 1.02 that wasn't even? Forces were pretty even, saber battles and the saber strengths were pretty even, so what screwed you up? DFA? ahh..I see..DFA, that one little move that is so easily avoided that my brother who played for the first time could just run away from..ahh yes that move. Face it, there was nothing wrong with 1.02 except for the inground DFA bug (where it kills you even though the saber is in the ground). Forces were equal, light and dark were both equally strong. Saber attacks were equal, no single uberly strong move, just the easily avoidable DFA, but a normal heavy swing almost kills in 1 hit anyways, so DFA was easily countered and easily won over. Medium also did 2 hit kills, and is faster than heavy, a good medium user can take out the average heavy user. Light upper cut was useful also, a quick way to take some hp off an opponent. So each saber style was useful, both force sides were equal, and guns had plentiful ammo, and sabers could take out guns at nearly the same rate as gunners could take out saberists. Hmmm..okay...so how is that not even again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted August 12, 2002 Author Share Posted August 12, 2002 Originally posted by 00M-187 If you cant win in 1.04 you suck. plain and simple. 1.04 is all about timing, this is the most even patch. So if you couldn't win in 1.02 or 1.03 you were a great player, its just that the game was holding you back? By the way I have a fairly easy time with most players in 1.04. You see I plaed 1.02 while most played 1.03. I never learned to rely on my blocking. Thus I win many duels without even taking a hit, since in 1.02 a hit was in fact a hit. 1.04 players are not used to my fighting style and thus have a hard time keeping up. I am not saying I a the greatest but I am saying that I am well above average. 1.04 reached "balance" at the expense of fast paced game play. So in fact you have a lesser game, just so you can tell people "yes Blue stance is good." Woohoo for you! I will admit that I have a annoying time on servers that run a mod that has destroyed the heavy stance (i think its called JediMoves) and makes you flip as opposed to rolling. I can't get used to a heavy sweep with lower range then a medium sweep. This mod is absolute garbage, its star wars meets "crouching tiger." Sorry Jedi shouldn't flip around like out-of-date Ninja. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted August 12, 2002 Author Share Posted August 12, 2002 Originally posted by Dark Begger Hmmm..okay...so how is that not even again? There was no uber blocking system and weaker sabers, to even the differences between good players and crappy ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Begger Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 lol..ahh I see..he meant even like THAT..I thought he wanted gameplay to be even..but I guess since he's probably at the bottom, he needed this patch to make it seem like he was closer to the good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 This logic tells us that "nerfing" will only serve to cause people to change there move of choice and locate another. This will not prevent spamming. It will just create an enviroment where people spam different moves. For example, 1.02 DFA spam, 1.03 BS spam, and 1.04 Lunge and Kick spam. You can reach a balance by "nerfing", adding more cons to a move, or by "twinking" adding pros to the move, it's not the approce that matters just the end result of a fun game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Begger Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 yes, balance can be reached by nerfing...you see... dfa - nerfed backstab - nerfed heavy stance - some say nerfed, or else to be nerfed medium stance - to be nerfed light stance - to be nerfed remaining moves - super strong, super uber kick ass jedi stare!...no one can move, they can only look at eachother and then someone randomly dies...man, that's EVEN! no one will have an advantage then!!! sorry for the sarcasm, but if they keep nerfing, that's what you end up with. adding pros to other moves is better than adding cons to moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 They've never nerfed the basic saber swing damage, Raven has just been scaling back the specials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted August 12, 2002 Author Share Posted August 12, 2002 Originally posted by razorace They've never nerfed the basic saber swing damage, Raven has just been scaling back the specials. Are you serious?! Everyone knows that saber damage has gone down. In 1.02 one Red stance hit could kill you at 100/25. I don't think 2 hits can do that now. They also slowed down the foot speed of Red. Removed the medium spins, except for one extremely slow spin that it has left. They've done a lot of "adjusting" (nerfing) to regular saber swings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Sorry, my bad. They have done some tweaking to the basic swings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 I had forgotten because I never felt it changed that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted August 13, 2002 Author Share Posted August 13, 2002 No need to apologize man. I appreciate the fact that you took the time to read this thread and post your opinion. While we differ in opinion I value the ideas that spawn from debating those with a opposing view points. Thanks Fatal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Begger Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 lol, saber damage was cut back a LOT. That's what brings out the long drawn out fights that take forever to finish. I am not quite sure of why they did this, maybe because people complained about dying too often and too fast to heavy..but I think that's the way it should be. Nice fast and clean fight where every hit counts greatly, and everyone is more cautious. The stuff they put out in 1.03 ALLOWED ass fighting...it has come to the point where you can stand backwards and block? hit? its pretty stupid. I feel 1.02 was their best job, and hopefully Raven will realize this. but then again, others have their own opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 The lowered damage is only half the problem. The other half was the insane amount of autoblocking. I'm reminded of my 1.03/1.04 tests where i could place my player's back against a corner and have an opponent using light style kill himself on my stationary saber while attacking me. I actually proved this online to one naysayer by going AFK for 2 minutes while he tried to kill me, and to no avail. As far as the assfighting goes, the fact that you could turn your back and swing, hitting everything behind you with no regard for your opponents' defenses was pretty stupid. 1.04 just took this and turned it on its head. It made the backstabs/sweeps so blockable that you opponent had to be actively attacking or have his back turned towards you. How ludicrous is it to try to kill someone with their back turned towards you by turning your own back to them? Originally posted by Dark Begger lol, saber damage was cut back a LOT. That's what brings out the long drawn out fights that take forever to finish. I am not quite sure of why they did this, maybe because people complained about dying too often and too fast to heavy..but I think that's the way it should be. Nice fast and clean fight where every hit counts greatly, and everyone is more cautious. The stuff they put out in 1.03 ALLOWED ass fighting...it has come to the point where you can stand backwards and block? hit? its pretty stupid. I feel 1.02 was their best job, and hopefully Raven will realize this. but then again, others have their own opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 My only problem is when someone blocks a hit from directly behind them. The least they could have done is added some kind of behind the back block animation, but its just lame period. I kind of like the the small blocking arc in front idea. right now the blocking arc is like 360 degrees. I see *******s who stand and defend just to annoy others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 What you're referring to is the reverse of the "hit-from-behind-from-in-front" bug. That's no longer a problem in ProMod. Originally posted by Tree My only problem is when someone blocks a hit from directly behind them. The least they could have done is added some kind of behind the back block animation, but its just lame period. I kind of like the the small blocking arc in front idea. right now the blocking arc is like 360 degrees. I see *******s who stand and defend just to annoy others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted August 13, 2002 Author Share Posted August 13, 2002 Originally posted by ArtifeX What you're referring to is the reverse of the "hit-from-behind-from-in-front" bug. That's no longer a problem in ProMod. You seem to be working Overtime at selling your Mod. Have I bought a car from you? You seem familiar. lol Anyway Artifex I am glad you are once again active in this community. I will try your Mod Tonight and post my review as soon as I am familiar enough with it. I have no doubt that you have done a great job being that few know this game inside and out as well as you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 sounds like an interesting mod. make an official thread for it and post us a link here. We don't want to hijack this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by ArtifeX What you're referring to is the reverse of the "hit-from-behind-from-in-front" bug. That's no longer a problem in ProMod. I know I know. Man you have been plugging that thing hard. Don't worry most hardcore saberists will probably try it. My only reservation is I have disagreed with many of your past Ideas on how to imrove the game/ what was wrong with the game(in past versions). But anyway when I finally give in and signup for Fileshack I'll try it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted August 14, 2002 Author Share Posted August 14, 2002 Originally posted by Tree I know I know. Man you have been plugging that thing hard. Don't worry most hardcore saberists will probably try it. My only reservation is I have disagreed with many of your past Ideas on how to imrove the game/ what was wrong with the game(in past versions). But anyway when I finally give in and signup for Fileshack I'll try it out Artifex's Mod has removed any luck form the game. It lets you block and it lets you use any saber stance you are good at to great effect. This is just plain skill. 1.04 has a buggy blocking system that leaves a lot to chance. The concept is simple. Everything you get is 100% earned. NOTHING is given to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted August 14, 2002 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Ok, less pluging, more on subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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