AU_Andy_Ewok Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Is this hardest or hard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 well... i dont know about the resources on hard, but they definately all go after you! if you don't lock the teams in the begining, all your allies turn on you immediately! and someone before was right in that... they don't fight each other very often... if at all. "ouch time" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Best thing for the computer to turtle (sad but true). At least, if you're playing 7 vs 1 (pretty much any difficulty level, though you might be able to avoid it if you rush quickly on the weakest levels since they tend to surrender quickly) or on hardest. It's possible to boom in a 7 vs 1, but there's usually not much in the way of free resources (I tend to just take over enemy towns). In hardest, it's best to wait til tech 4 before serious expansion, otherwise you stand a good chance of getting slaughtered. Once you're firmly in Tech IV, however, it's pretty much just a matter of time. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Roflmao, there is no way it is possible to 7vYou on Hardest computer. Not even if you are uber tutler/boomer. I have seen some of the very best players in this game who can't stand vs one hardest computer player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 3, 2002 Author Share Posted October 3, 2002 I think he was talking about 7v1 on easiest:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Yeah, I said 7 vs 1 OR on hardest. I usually do 7 vs. 1 on hard, but hardest is a royal pain (1 vs 1, I've not evey tried 2 vs 1 or more on hardest), at least until you get to Tech IV, at which point the computer's already had all it's resource boosts and you should be at a point where you can effectively counterattack. All the "hardest" games I've played started out really bad, but once I matched up techwise, I just obliterated the opponent. I'd love to do a 2 vs 1 or more on hardest, but to be perfectly frank I'm not sure I'd survive to reach Tech IV. For those of you that think easiest is too easy, try this. Play 7 vs. 1 on the smallest map. Normally 7 vs. 1 on easiest is a breeze on a decent size map, but when you're that tightly packed together they'll swamp you like crazy. They have a tendency to trade many of their resources to 3 or 4 of the civs then throw massive padawan rushes in Tech II. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadrixTF Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 Ewok, i was referring to 2v1 on Hardest not Hard. There seems to be a BIG jump form Hard to Hardest. Hardest seems to be teaching me a lesson in early Econ micromanagement! (I haven't managed to beat the AI on Hardest 2v1 yet...) I doubt anyone can beat the AI at 7v1 on Hard.... but if you can, please let me know HOW you do it??? Perhaps you can mail me a recorded game or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 5, 2002 Author Share Posted October 5, 2002 Thinking the same thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 Originally posted by MadrixTF Ewok, i was referring to 2v1 on Hardest not Hard. There seems to be a BIG jump form Hard to Hardest. Hardest seems to be teaching me a lesson in early Econ micromanagement! (I haven't managed to beat the AI on Hardest 2v1 yet...) I doubt anyone can beat the AI at 7v1 on Hard.... but if you can, please let me know HOW you do it??? Perhaps you can mail me a recorded game or something... I turtle... and the games take a long ass time to play (usually 3 hours minimum). I'm total defense in the first couple techs and load up on mounts and walls to keep people out. When I hit tech three, I boost my defenses, then start tackling the nearest person to me. I take over their town and use their walls to keep the other opponents off me (since they can't shoot at their allies's walls; this allows me to limit their channels of attack while I grab everything in between the two towns. Then I move to the next (depending on how hard I'm pressed, I may do this to two different towns at once). Eventually I work it down to just a couple, who are usually rather powerful by this time but pinned away and running short on resources. I'll see if I can get a recorded game for you, but it may be a while. Since the games take so long, I usually don't play them all in one shot. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 5, 2002 Author Share Posted October 5, 2002 I know what you mean. I played a game 3v3 hardest vs the comp, it took over 5 hours to complete, and i had a kill count over 5000 (not bad for 600 casualties) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 Oh, btw, I forgot to mention this but if I'm doing just myself against the computer I tend to pause a lot (especially for 7 vs 1). Some might grant this as cheating, and they're welcome to that opinion, but since the computer can switch between directing units and buildings faster than any human, I see it as an equalizer. Primarily I used it for giving certain workers things to do that would require a fair bit of time setting up placement (walls usually), though I use it at other times to, often when I have more than one battle going on and usually right when I hit a new tech level. Fact is, if you're playing multis vs 1 and not using the pause button, then you might as well give up (unless it's only 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1 and you're playing moderate or below). Of course, my use of hotkeys is a bit sporadic, so maybe it's just me. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 May I ask something? What exactly is turtling anyway? Oh, If you want a real challenge against a comp, try playing 2 vs 1 at terminate the commander at hardest. Just try it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 Can someone who can beat Hardest Computer post a recorded game of beating them please. I tried 1v1 on Hardest got attacked at 6 mins in t2, 8 mins with fighters and starfighters and then they t4'd at 19 mins. How can you stop fighters/starfighters in the first 10 minutes? I've played the very best people in this game no one has ever done anything comparable to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 Originally posted by AU_Andy_Ewok Can someone who can beat Hardest Computer post a recorded game of beating them please. I tried 1v1 on Hardest got attacked at 6 mins in t2, 8 mins with fighters and starfighters and then they t4'd at 19 mins. How can you stop fighters/starfighters in the first 10 minutes? I've played the very best people in this game no one has ever done anything comparable to that. If a person ever did that they would win every game. But since this is AI, there are many not-so-bright things they do that you can take advantage of. If you wall yourself in and put turrets behind them, they will thoughtlessly suicide their armies into them, and once they are dead, just go kill the few siege/cannons with your unscathed army. Similarly they will kamikazee their fighters/starfighters into any AA turrets or troopers you may have, and do not know how to dodge the basic missiles. Are you sure they had fighters in 8 minutes? Was it high resources? When I played a hardest game on standard the AI T2'd in about 8, trooper rushed at about 10, and T3'd at about 13. By then I was in T2 and used AA troopers to kill the starfighters. Sith could probably post a recorded game since he often plays games vs several AI's on hardest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 It was just standard RM settings. I did get the times wrong it was an 8 minute Tech 3 and 12 mins they had fighters.. I'll post the rec game for you. This link should work... http://www.saintsfcweb.co.uk/vshardest.zip. Have fun watching me lose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 6, 2002 Author Share Posted October 6, 2002 Ewok, you cant play the game like its a game on the zone. You need a standing army fast and turrets near anything worth killing. Your workers will spend a good portion of the first bit insdie the cc and you have to gear your entire econ towards your army. Its just weather the storm unitl t4, when you can finally utilize the fact that you have a brain not a computer chip. Then you have to fight to catch up with the comp who has become quite viral. Its gonna be a long game, and the chances are youll only win like 25% of your games against the comp. I cant wait until they make an ai that is capable of being hard without cheating. That way it wont be impossible in the beginning and moronic in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 6, 2002 Author Share Posted October 6, 2002 Oops just read other comments. Turtling is just like what it sounds. You create a quite impregnable defense based on walls and defensive buildings that encompassesz a small portion of the map, and you sit there and repel anything your enemy throws at you. And simwiz, i could never play multiple comps on my own. I tend to do 2v2's or 3v3's against the comp, seeing that it gives you slightly more protection early on. Currently, ive been playing 3v3 deathmatches vs the comp on hardest (i cant stand deathmatch vs other people but vs the comp its quite fun). My record is 2 wins one loss and one game im still playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 BTW, turtling is when you build yourself in a little type of shell. All your forces are in a very small area. IE, with sheilds and turrets all around your base so they need to get through all your D so they can't get to your CC or anything like that. More or less, that's turtling. Or you could ask sithmaster... cuz all he does is say that that's what simwiz does... but i've never seen him do it myself. PS sithmaster, why would you even bother playing an epic game like that vs the comp? i mean, it's a challenge i guess... but still... it seems like more of an epic waste of time than an epic game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 6, 2002 Author Share Posted October 6, 2002 pbguy, I played single player almost exclusively in AoK, and i guess i have been able to kick the habit. And simwiz wouldnt dare turtle in a zone game, but whenever i play him, its back to his old routine: wall up, place turrets everywhere, and wait until tech 4 when he can build a large cache of long range siege, and hit and run from behind his walls. Oh well, atleast my influence has prevailed and he no longer plays on maps that look like this: |...............................................| |...............................................| |...............................................| |...............................................| |...............................................| |...............................................| ------------------......----------------- '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' ------------------......----------------- |...............................................| |...............................................| |...............................................| |...............................................| |...............................................| |...............................................| Where the was defences on either side of the choke point, and it ended up becaming who had the most cannons/acs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadrixTF Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Kryllith, i also use the pause button a lot for micro-econ management, but never 7v1. So, if you ever manage to record a game like that then please let us know... I tend to "semi-turtle" in difficult situations (eg. 2v1 on Hardest). i don't build walls, but i block offensive by using buildings (spaceport, war centre, etc.) to surround my camp, and Turrets on the edge protecting each other. But on Hard 1v1 i use forward-building - this is more fun and quite effective too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 the best i could do was 5v1 on Hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 7 vs. 1 is a pain in the rear, but possible. Often times what makes the difference for me is terrain. Having a large lake (or a ring of mountains) covering the middle of the maps works well since it gives the computer less avenues for sending tons of units. Since it favors sending them on foot, I generally have the water covered well before it considers sending them by sea. Of course, the major problem with such a game is the same as playing on hardest, surviving long enough to become a power (that and if you decided to get 25 workers in tech I then you're screwed because you'll be long rushed and wiped out before that). I agree with Sithmaster: AI needs to be set up so that it plays well, not so it cheats to give you a major reaming in the beginning and then crumbles if you survive to tech IV. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Originally posted by Sithmaster_821 And simwiz wouldnt dare turtle in a zone game, but whenever i play him, its back to his old routine: wall up, place turrets everywhere, and wait until tech 4 when he can build a large cache of long range siege, and hit and run from behind his walls. Oh well, atleast my influence has prevailed and he no longer plays on maps that look like this: |...............................................| |...............................................| |...............................................| |...............................................| |...............................................| |...............................................| ------------------......----------------- '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''|.....|'''''''''''''''''''''''''' ------------------......----------------- |...............................................| |...............................................| |...............................................| |...............................................| |...............................................| |...............................................| Where the was defences on either side of the choke point, and it ended up becaming who had the most cannons/acs Dont be a moron. That map was an experiment and yes, it did fail. So everyone should aviod trying new things because some ignorant **** like you will laugh in their face? How do you think new strategies, map types, games, etc. are created? By people trying new things. I don't see you trying anything new, you just play the same exact way every game. So until you come up with ideas of your own you ought to avoid being too critical of others' ideas. Come on Sith, make up a good, unique map! No? Well then stfu. A stalemate will not result from one person turtling. If I were turtling you should beat me every time because you would have much more resources. So I'm ovbiously not turtling. When you built a semi-forward base did I suicide my army into your waiting troopers, turrets, fortress, and air force? You probably would have, but I'm not as dumb as you. So I built my own semi-forward base, defended it with my army and stopped your attack instantly. Then I pummel dropped you, took your holocrons, and demolished a large chunk of your base. And right before you got yourself grounded from the computer I had another forward base going up and I was about to remove your base from the map. And that is what you think turtling is? Besides, if I were turtling and WINNING, then that does not mean that I am bad, it means you must truly suck. To be beaten by a turtle is the ultimate humiliation. Have you ever rushed me in any of our RM games? No, because I am your ally on the zone and I know your only rush strat and would be well prepared. Which is the same reason I did not rush you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadrixTF Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 I don't think it is humiliating to be beaten by a Turtle strategy. It is one of the most difficult strategies to defeat in my opinion. If you look in history you will find many instances where trying to take a well-built castle with heavy defense is almost impossible. and this is the same as trying to take down a turtle. It causes you to weaken your forces against the strong defence, and then you are susceptible to counter-attack... Kryllith - the terrain does make a difference for me as well, if the map doesn't suit me then i usually crumble against the AI. I tend to prefer a map with a river going across from one end to the other with shallows to defend - almost like a great-divide. If you have opponents on your side of the River you take them out first and gain extra resources, then focus on the other side of the River - at this stage it is usually late T3 or early T4 and then the epic battle begins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 I guess maybe my idea of turtling is different from others. I like to start with a nice, strong fortress for my main base, but I see turtles are just slow moving creatures, not rocks. I expand, just not as fast as rushers. Generally I advance in chunks at a time and set up new walls/turrets/etc along the way. It's rather ore intensive, but I usually have enough to generally cover a giant map with interconnected bases and still have 5 or 6 fortress (or more). Of course, it's even easier against the computer since I can just use their walls... MadrixTF- yeah, I actually had a battle against a hardest on this type of map. half the map seperated by a river with only one spot of shallows. I promptly walled/gated the shallows and loaded turrets all over the place. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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