AU_Andy_Ewok Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Originally posted by Madrix tf I don't think it is humiliating to be beaten by a Turtle strategy. It is one of the most difficult strategies to defeat in my opinion. Or easiest... Maybe the probot rush is easier to defend. If some one turtles against me in a game i know i'll win. An example Experts in this game and AoK all rush. A rusher will always beat a turtler. Even if you stop the rush you can never have enough ore to cover half of the map with turrets. Even if you cover 40% of the map i'll get the other 60% of the resources. Most people who turtle build a nice square of walls and cover at most 25% of the map. The other player have 75% of the map, 3 times the resources and 3 times the army. When playing online you do need a big econ 150ish workers but should never rely on defences. I'd rather have a 100 unit army than 50 turrets. With out Cannons, units in T1 to attack with and lack of ore on a map then maybe you could turtle and not be beaten. But that's no the case in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 9, 2002 Author Share Posted October 9, 2002 It depends on the type of turtling. Aggresive turtles (who grab a large portion of a map early on) can be very hard to beat and, if they boom behind their walls, you have no option but to fight only when they attack. This is why i love the gps in aom. If someone is turtling, just use undermine to poke a hole through their shell and continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadrixTF Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Ewok, i agree that if a turtle is rushed before he can get a reasonable defence up then the "Rusher" will have the advantage, but there are different types of tutling - lately i use a combo of Forward building near more resources (preferably in the middle of the Map) and then set up heavy defence on my forward base - this way i have already dominated startegic position and can withstand a heavy assualt. While the enemy is trying to bring down my defences, i create a massive army - then counter-attack while he is low on troops - this has been working very well for me lately... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Originally posted by AU_Andy_Ewok Or easiest... Maybe the probot rush is easier to defend. If some one turtles against me in a game i know i'll win. An example Experts in this game and AoK all rush. A rusher will always beat a turtler. Even if you stop the rush you can never have enough ore to cover half of the map with turrets. Even if you cover 40% of the map i'll get the other 60% of the resources. Most people who turtle build a nice square of walls and cover at most 25% of the map. The other player have 75% of the map, 3 times the resources and 3 times the army. When playing online you do need a big econ 150ish workers but should never rely on defences. I'd rather have a 100 unit army than 50 turrets. With out Cannons, units in T1 to attack with and lack of ore on a map then maybe you could turtle and not be beaten. But that's no the case in this game. I'll admit that in turtling I often end up with the mouse's share of the resources, but my opponents tend to lose their resources by dashing them against my defenses. My strength typically lies in the fact that I keep most of my units alive while my opponents lose theirs. After a time, the resource game ceases to become a factor. Sure they've had a lot more than I have, but they'd also lost a lot more of what they've had in dead units. Eventually my saved up units/resources (those that I've not use to screw up people's economy or eliminate opponents when facing multiple opponents) outweighs that of my opponents, and the offensive strength reverses. Course, this is why games tends to last three hours... Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 turtling does not work against anyone with a minor type of rush. go ahead and turtle, and when i rush to t3, i'm gonna strike rush the hell out of you. and if you have a wall, i'll just use a transport. defend a probot rush? how do you defend a bunch of dragons, rancors, etc. in early t1 without wasting VALUABLE worker time? Especially when 3 or 4 get you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 I was talking Probot rush as in massing probots on someone lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Turtles can be destroyed easily in T2 and T3. I usually discover if someone is turtling when I build my forward base, and then I just build a few more mounties, kill the turrets, then use my troopers to kill their economy. Walls will last all of 3 seconds. They will rarely get to T3. If they show some intelligence and back up their turrets with troops ( to kill mounties) then it may delay the inevitable, and I may have to wait for T3 to come in with strikes/fighters, bombers, pummels, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 why the hell would anyone waste the carbon on the probots? it's better spent on farms early on. probots dont last long vs about 4 troopers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 why the hell would anyone waste the carbon on the probots? It depends on the situation and the number of probots you use. Don't try to tell me that 30 probots won't kill 4 troopers. Also just to say it depends on how many bantha/nerf you have and if their is a muja fruit bush nearby. Sometimes you won't even need farms to go up to tech 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 You can only build Probots in Tech2. Learn your Civs!!! When im playing empire going fast tech 3, i get 27 workers in t1 and then none in tech2, whilst waiting for your 2 buildings to be build just start building probots. Normally get about 6 before I can t3. Then just use them to scout like crazy or just attack and annoy someone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Oups! I forgot about that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 14, 2002 Author Share Posted October 14, 2002 Probots can be used as intense scouting in t2 when a scout isnt enough to find everything (or is dead:D ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadrixTF Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 Well i've never been Probot-rushed before and i can't see the benefit. i don't think Probots were designed for attack purposes, but they work nicely as scouts. I can only see the Probot-rush as an irritation, nothing more... Question: I played "Terminate the Commander" for the first time recently and it seems a lot harder than RM. Am i imagining things or is Terminate the Commander more difficult? The AI seems more aggressive and builds units like crazy - i didn't even have my Forward base up for more than 3 mins before it was destroyed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 Probots suck at attacking. 1 Attack against everything lol. 5500 shots to kill a Fortress. But they are super scouts. Use them in Raiders or water maps for best benfit. Anoter good use is too kleep them partolingh round a fortress, turret etc and then the building wont be able to hit the probot in the mean time you can send in any unit to kill the building which is a nice trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 Originally posted by pbguy1211 turtling does not work against anyone with a minor type of rush. go ahead and turtle, and when i rush to t3, i'm gonna strike rush the hell out of you. and if you have a wall, i'll just use a transport. That's the difference between playing 7 computers players and playing any decent human player. I'm not likely to turtle against a human player (unless I know my opponent is turtling, in which case I'll do something in between). However, computer players are stupid to the point that they won't even USE air transport, unless they on a space map which requires it, so turtling against them is effective (and necessary against heavy odds). Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted October 15, 2002 Share Posted October 15, 2002 I played "Terminate the Commander" for the first time recently and it seems a lot harder than RM. Am i imagining things or is Terminate the Commander more difficult? The AI seems more aggressive and builds units like crazy - i didn't even have my Forward base up for more than 3 mins before it was destroyed! Told you so..... Yes it is a lot more difficult and the ai is a lot more aggressive for some reason. There is also the fact that you start with no nova that can slow you down but it is true for some reason that they made a better ai for terminate the commander.... OH! Just though of this. They made it more aggressive because if not it would be too easy to win! Think about. You only need to kill the commander to win while in rm you have to wipe out an entire base. If terminate the commander was as easy as, you would have no challenge at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 16, 2002 Author Share Posted October 16, 2002 I never played terminate the commander, but i did play regicide in AoK and didnt find the AI any harder. I'd also like to congratualate everyone. Its been almost three pages now and there are no "new unit" disscussions, the words "gunship" or "SWGB2" havent been said, there have been no flames (aside from an outburst by simiwz), and everyone has stayed on topic. I know it seems strange to congradulate people for doing this, but, in light of most of the other threads on this board, it is worthy of recognition. *Everyone pats themselves on the back* Back to disscussing probots and terminate the commander... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Originally posted by Sithmaster_821 (aside from an outburst by simiwz) There you go again. It is by now clear to everyone that you want to start a flame war. I am seriously considering putting you on ignore. My "outburst" was in response to your false accusation that I turtle and that I was a n00b until you showed me the errors of turtle maps. Completely rediculous. Like I said it is very clear that your immature post led to the response. If you didn't want to start a flame war, then you wouldn't make such asinine comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadrixTF Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Well, i've taken a break from Terminate The Commander, and i tried Death Match recently - lovely! Tons of resources and serious battles - but this one is not as difficult as Terminate the Commander, but is fun!!! "...You Rebel Alliance AI scum, i WILL have your Commander soon..." Sith, why don't you give Terminate The Commander a try and lets "hear" your comments afterwards??? Oh, and simwiz - no one wants a flame-war, we just want comments and questions on strategy, gamplay, etc. Have you played Terminate The Commander? If not, try it out and lets have your thoughts as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwiz2 Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Originally posted by MadrixTF Oh, and simwiz - no one wants a flame-war, we just want comments and questions on strategy, gamplay, etc. Please try rereading the thread. About halfway up this page is a post by Sithmaster claiming that I am a n00b turtle and giving a picture of my map experiment, which he implies I played on constantly so I could turtle easily. Then his 'superior influence' convinced me to discontinue my 'n00bish turtling ways.' How would you respond to an attack like that? If his GB turtle and AoM n00b comments are not asking for a flame war, then what do you consider to be enough to start a flame war? Especially when none of what he said was true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Please guys lets keep this thread unharmed from the flame wars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 18, 2002 Author Share Posted October 18, 2002 Madrix, i totally agree with you on the deathmatch against the ai. It isnt as slanted against you in the beginning and is much harder late game. Ill try commander next game, which could be a while. Simwiz, we were disscussing turtles, and, since you used to be an avid turtle, i cited you. Dont take everything people say as insults. Thats how people start not liking you. Heres my question-Forward Bases In many games, my ally would forward build very early, even before forming a beachhead. Despite the fact that he was ripping through the enemy's town, the enemy, in many cases is able to get fighters/strike mechs/troopers past the base and hit my ally's totally undefended towns. Similar situations happened to me in AoM. So my question is should you forward build? If so when and where and with what buildings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbguy1211 Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 yes... BUT you should do it RIGHT! Don't leave your base undefended, and if you build a foward base DEFEND IT WELL! Make sure you know what your opponent has and if he can easily take it out. IE: when i played my game vs simwiz, he tried to build a foward base on me... but he had no D at his home base and i tech'd to 3 first.... so i ended up slaughtering him. in that case it didnt work so well. sometimes, if you can sneak a few workers in BEHIND your opponents base, now THAT can be effective because they certainly don't expect it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU_Andy_Ewok Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Depends which tech level, which units, where on map and wether it's a team game. You don't want to forward build Jedi temples on someone in t4. You want to shock someone with Jedi's not let them know you're building them. I don't usually forward build in t1 or t2. Sometimes if im dominating with strikers or fighters in T3 i build a couple of hvy weapons factories. Usually do it late 25-30 mins depending on map. The carbon's more useful building CC's before then. In t4 i usually build most my military buildings in the middle of the map. With the exception of troopers, jedi and Aircraft. With troopers you got the choice of either building on outskirts of the base or drop some workers in there base and build some TC's. Not really into the whole Fort + Shield + Hvy weapon factory set up. I've seen it work a few times but it's too easy to defend. You can either put up your own fort + Shield gen or completly ignore it and attack his base. Normally when that happens to me i mass Adv Mounted troopers and send them in. Recruit rushing you're gonna need to forward build. I learnt to recruit rush in normal gb but with CC and nurserys owning it's preety pointless. Much easier to t2 and mass troopers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted October 18, 2002 Author Share Posted October 18, 2002 I agree with you Ewok. I rarely forward build until i have air/mechs and my initial rush is stalled and my air force is preoccupied or cant do much, but still reamining in the outskirts of their town. Then i plop down the fort (like i said in another post, im always one for safety nets) and the heavy weapons factory, plus maybe a troop center, and prepare for a longer game (though i always have an army close by my town-usually grenadiers and aa troopers, cause the easily stop air raids, strikes, and pummel drops). I have the fort there to deter the enemy from hitting my forward base, and to make sure that i keep a presence near there town and a safe haven for raids if the game goes long. And, pbguy, i think you can guess my ally:) But lets not say anything here, cause he's prone to explosions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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