More Or Less Poetry

[Darth Eggplant]

*this thread was originally called

More Or Less Poetry, but I changed it

to Dead Poets Society.

*much more GF-esque;

plus it was a great movie.*

 

The Welshwoman wrote

It's people like you who make me want to commit sepuku...sniff, sob, sniff...

It's just that..man, why are you so darned good?? You write so well and so MUCH, makes me realise how bland my poetry is(and how seldom inspiration comes to me)

oh, oh, you think you'd be willing to give poetry classes??

Lesson ONE: BAD Spelling.

If your spelling is bad

then there is hope for you yet.

Lesson one is about being a bad speller.

BAD meaning Buy Another Dictionary.

 

If you own a pocket dictionary

with 1,000 words in it, upgrade it

to a dictionary with 5,000 words.

And if you own a dictionary with

5,000 words in it, upgrade to one

with 25,000 words in it.

And if you own a dictionary with

25,000 words in it, upgrade to one

with 125,000 words and a Thesaurus.

 

*care, cleaning, grooming & feeding

of your Thesaurus will be covered

in future lessons.*

 

now for lesson one itself.

If you do not know what a word means

or how to spell it, then look it up.

and bookmark that page and go back

to that page, until you can spell it.

also most words have multiple meanings

attached to them. try learning the other

meanings as well.

 

(AND) here's the fun part

once you look up your word;

look up two other words,

words you were not even looking for.

Think of two other letters,

and flip the book and find a word

you do know the meaning of

and then scan above or below that word

until you find a new word you have

never heard or have used before.

and learn the meaning of that word too.

 

for advanced pupils, keep your dictionary

next to your TV or computer, and while

the commercials come on, or while you

wait for large files to download, look

up words to pass the time.

the more words you have or know

at your disposal will help you

become a more descriptive poet.

Remember the great sceen in the movie

"Throw Momma From The Train"

Billy Crystal and Danny Devito

search for a descriptive word

to describe the night, and they use

hot, humid, sticky...

and then Momma mumbles "sultry"

 

Now to all the other poets out there

in the Blue Casket, please feel free

to step up to the mike and lay a lesson

on us any time you like. also 2 of my

poetry threads have dissapeared

due to an increase in thread traffic

in this portion of the GFN forums.

I therefore sugguest

we all start collectively posting

poems here in order to insure

their posterity. so if you value

your contributions,

and want others to read them,

cut and paste

bonedaddy's

cut and paste.

[The Welshwoman]

Sorry for the late reply, oh great purple one, but I'd forgotten my password and couldn't log-in to the forums, heh heh

 

Well, about lesson one, I've been doing the 'randomly looking up some new word' part for a long time, heh heh. Now if only I had a good memory to keep all those words in mind! I don't really worry about the vocabulary much actually, since I've got my broh who happens to be a walking, talking dictionary (encyclopedia, to be precise).

The problem with my poems is that I think they sound too...unprofessional? Immature?...er, well, when you read 'em you know that the writer's someone who tries too hard and,...do you get what I'm trying to say? 'cause I'm having trouble explaining it myself!

Secondly, earlier, I could write a short poem about almost anything I wanted, any time I wanted. Now I get a good poem about..once in two months or something.

 

Still, if you'd like to review a poem of mine, here's one I wrote on a character of mine:

I stand before the mirror

But don't know who I see

I don't know this person

Who stands in front of me

So many know my name

No one knows the true me

They look into my eyes

But don't see what I see

Someone with many faces

But which one is real?

What is in the smile of mine

That I use as a seal

To hide my true emotion

To hide my misery

And travel on my own

Towards my destiny

------------------------

 

Blah...

Well, adios fer now.

[Darth Eggplant]

*an aside to the Welshwoman,

will speak with you concerning your poem

and poetry; mommentarily after lessons

2 and 3. lesson 3 will deal with your

concerns about your poetic endeavors.*

[Darth Eggplant]

THESAURUS

 

What a treasure you are

they make references to you in books,

you are in the Dictionary for sure;

a thing most extra-ordinary

living 350 Million years ago

Speckled with five horns and no ears.

What would the Golden Realm

of the Terrible Lizards

have been like without you?

Rex and his evil friends might have won.

But you saved the day,

you paved the way

Mankind should thank you;

for you are my favourite

Dinosaur of all time

no matter what

the Greeks say.

*the dictionary however has this to say:*

 

the-sau-rus,

plural, the-sau-ri,

the-sau-rus-es noun;

a useful literary collection

or selection, especially a book,

of synonyms and antonyms.

 

*see lesson one for meaning of

words synonyms & antonyms

if you do not know what they mean.*

 

Quote from the Welshwoman's last post:

 

"The problem with my poems

is that I think they sound too...

unprofessional? Immature?...

er, well, when you read 'em

you know that the writer's someone

who tries too hard and,...

do you get what I'm trying to say?

'cause I'm having trouble

explaining it myself!

Secondly, earlier,

I could write a short poem

about almost anything I wanted,

any time I wanted.

Now I get a good poem about..

once in two months or something."

 

the word unprofessional

is an adjective used by

the welshwoman to describe

in this case her poetry.

it means not professional,

or

not in accordance with

professional etiquettte.

 

interestingly enough the word

in the dictionary above unprofessional

is 'unprintable' and the word below

the word unprofessional is

'unqualified.'

 

because by the sounds of it welshwoman

seems unsure and uncertain of her work

and words. unprintable means not suitable

for printing, and unqualified means,

lacking the necessary qualifications,

or in some cases convictions.

(but these topics are for future lessons)

 

knowing words, (lesson one)

and what they mean is important

however knowing alternate words

is also very important because

the choice of the words that you

choose to use can make all the difference

in your poetry's printability

and qualification.

 

it gives you a greater range of

possibilities and a much larger

arsenal of weapons, with which

to hit your target with.

 

once your voccabulary, knowledge

and familiarity with words increases,

you will find it much easier to express

yourself and what you are feeling.

and this can be achieved by using,

knowing and loving to learn your

dictionary and thesaurus.

and you do not have to absolutely

know the words when writing

take your time, look up words,

draft and re-draft

even sit on them and stew a bit,

until you are ready.

 

now today's lesson should be

using a thesaurus to look up

other ways you can say immature.

(or other ways you can describe)

the welshwoman's sentiments towards

her poetry. forum members can chime in,

but (play nice) it might be best

for the welshwoman to go it alone.

tell me all about your

unprofessional,

unqualified,

unprintable,

immature writing.

 

so hit the thesaurus and post for me

welshy woman, some interesting adjectives

describing why you think your poems...

[Darth Eggplant]

Dr Suess

the modern Poet

rhymed so well

and we all know it,

 

but unless you're writing jingles

for advertisements like:

"keep your eyes on your fries"

 

or unless your belting out

bewitching blues or swanky jazz

and have a full piece skeleton band

complete with keyboard and alto sax

 

or unless you have a wild immagination

or have taken copious amounts of acid

 

perhaps you should not

do the Rhyme

if you can't do the Thyme

okay Basil?

the Welshwoman's poem:

 

I stand before the mirror

But don't know who I see

I don't know this person

Who stands in front of me

So many know my name

No one knows the true me

They look into my eyes

But don't see what I see

Someone with many faces

But which one is real?

What is in the smile of mine

That I use as a seal

To hide my true emotion

To hide my misery

And travel on my own

Towards my destiny

much of the Welshwoman's poem

is good, I like these lines:

 

'Someone with many faces

But which one is real?'

 

this is a thought provoking statement

with serious self reflection involved,

however these two lines are surrounded

by a very basic A-B-A-B rhyming scheme.

(not that there is anything wrong

with rhyming.) however the Welshowoman

states that she feels her work to be

immature and most of this comes from

the deceptive childlike rhyming utilized

in her poem.

 

I stand before the mirror (A)

But don't know who I see (B)

I don't know this person ©

Who stands in front of me (B)

So many know my name (D)

No one knows the true me (B)

They look into my eyes (E)

But don't see what I see (B)

 

as you can see her poem is a prose

trying to be a prose but tripping

over it's own rhyme and reason.

A-B-C-B-D-B-E-B

 

'Someone with many faces (F)

But which one is real?' (G)

 

What is in the smile of mine (H)

That I use as a seal (G)

To hide my true emotion (I)

To hide my misery (J)

And travel on my own (K)

Towards my destiny (J)

 

in the last half of her poem

again it mainly takes the stance

of being prose poetry, but again it

reverts into rhyming poetry with

two of the last three lines.

 

The most important thing about

Green Eggs and Ham is do you personally

like them Sam I AM?

 

the Welshwoman also stated that:

 

'and,...

do you get what I'm trying to say?

'cause I'm having trouble

explaining it myself!'

 

this translates simply:

"say what you mean,

and mean what you say."

 

KNOW your dictionary and use it.

Increase your working Voccabulary.

Take your Thesaurus for a walk.

decide a head of time if you want

"FRIES with that?"

 

the choice of words you use,

and the method you employ to

frame your train of thought,

really does make all the difference.

[The Welshwoman]

Actually, I can't really write poems that don't rhyme, if that is what you are suggesting I do.

Some times when I'm writing a poem, I have a whole plan of what to write in my head, but I have to sit down and think about how to put that in 'poetic' words to make it fit into the poem. I guess that's where my poetry fails to sound interesting. Other times, the sentences just come to me, in the form of complete stanzas. All I have to do is write them down. No hard work from my part! Those poems of mine I actually like. This one was among those poems (I think.. Can't remember) So..I don't think I quite get what you're telling me, that my rhyming should follow a certain pattern the way it was in the first half of my poem? Or that it shouldn't stick to a certain pattern as it did in the first half of the poem?

 

Oh yeah, and my reply to lesson 2: scratch out the word 'unprofessional', how's "not up to the standard"?

[Darth Eggplant]

form over substance,

this is substance abuse;

(there is the other kind

but since this is a Lucas forum

we will not delve to deeply into it.)

 

form is the format of your writing

 

substance is what is in it

 

 

what I was getting at

in the last lesson,

and what I meant by

say what you mean

and mean what you say

 

comes down to the format you chose

and use to express your poetry.

 

for example a friend graduated

from university with a degree

and a major in English Litterature

and he told me, that there was

a difference between a sonnet

and a Shakespearian sonnet.

 

now I did not know that,

and I asked him;

"is there any other kind of sonnet

other than a Shakespearian one?"

 

and apparently the answer is yes.

 

when you get totally academic

writing becomes very lifeless;

it becomes all the rules of

how a stanza, or how a Haiku,

or how a sonnet get created.

knowing the rules

and living by them

are two seperate matters.

once you know how to cook

and follow a receipt,

one then learns how to tweak

and bend the rules to suit ones

style and flavour of cooking.

 

for instance I make cookis,

my receipt I followed the first time

to the letter and the cookies tasted

good. BUT as I learnt to follow the

receipt I began experimentation with

them, deviating from the receipt.

the receipt says cook for 8 minutes

well my oven runs hot and I like my

cookies chewie so I only cook them for

5 minutes. the receipt says 2 cups of

water. I use 3 1/2 cups of water.

I also add raisons so the chocolate

ones taste like big glossett raison

cookies, or maccadamian nuts,

or cashews sometimes walnuts.

 

the point being I do not entirely

follow the academic rules completely.

to me a sonnet is a sonnet,

I am not concerned with how many

lines it has, I am not totally certain

how many lines a sonnet actually has

but if I want to do that 15th to 19th

century old fashion style writing,

I look at an example of several poems

get a feel for the mood the language

etc, and then pen one myself,

and if it is not entirely true to form,

so long as it sounds romantic that is

all that counts.

 

now I am not the only poet on the GFN

Lateralis posts his poems and merfatcat

has dabbled; and so has Isis (who now

is a musician) they all have different

styles from myself. but the thing is:

you kind of have to choose what you

are writinf about based upon the

substance of your life and experiences

and not upon conventional writing styles.

In the game Grim Fandango, in year two

in The Blue Casket, all the poetry is

beatnik. even Manny and Velasco recite

a poem together and I heard someone call

it crazy biker haiku. BUT all of this

peotry does not neccissarily rhyme.

 

many will argue that

prose is NOT poetry

and never will be

because it does not rhyme.

 

that is an argument I do not get at all.

If you believe that poetry must rhyme

that it has to rhyme, and\or if you

feel that you can not write anything

but rhyming poetry. then that is your

opinion and although we may debate it,

it is something you believe in

and only you can believe in yourself,

your words and your work.

 

there is a time and place for rhyming,

it happens in advertising cute catchy

jingles. it happens in childrens TV shows

and books. it happens in mass produced

Hallmark greeting cards,(oops I let a

bit of my own personal view shine through)

it happens in songs most of which are

meant to be campy. and catchy and make

your bones rattle and your shoulders shake.

the music from the movie

The Nightmare Before Christmas

is an excellent example of this.

lyrics which is poetry set to music

most often can or will have rhyme to it.

but poetry, not all poems rhyme

and not all poets rhyme either.

"O me! O Life!

of the questions of these recurring,

of the endless trains of the faithless,

of cities fill'd with the foolish,

what good amid these,

O me! O Life!

answer,

that you are here,

that life exists and identity,

that the powerful play goes on,

and you may contribute a verse."

 

Walt Witman

"Come my friends,

Tis not too late to seek a newer world,

for my purpose holds

to sail beyond the sunset...

and though

we are not that strength

which in old days

moved earth and heaven;

that which we are,

we are

one equal temper of heroic hearts,

made weak by time and fate,

but strong in will,

to strive, to seek, to find,

and not to yield."

 

Tennyson

"Here lies my wife,

here let her lie.

Now she's at rest

and so am I."

 

John Dryden

the last one illustrates rhyme

in poetry; but to make it work

you really have to be quite Pithy

in order to pull it off,

and you have to encapsulate

something so universal

or nearly so, that readers can

identify with the humour and

cleverness immediately.

 

the substance of your poems

comes from life experince

and life lessons,

something which can not be taught.

all I can say is that before

they ever made the movie

'Dead Poets Society'

or I ever saw and read the book,

I was already a 'Dead Poet'

long before.

Carpe Dieum! seize the day.

you do not have to know the

latin phrase, you have to live it.

 

in the film 'Risky Business'

Joels friend tells him

"if you can't say **** It!

you can't live that way."

 

a modern version of Carpe Dieum.

 

poetry, any poetry that moves

a person comes from the heart

and soul of the poet. It must flow.

you can not in my opinion strive

for dead poet society material

until you stop wondering what word

best rhymes with orange?

 

not to be modest and yes to sound

a tad bit arogant, you posted a post

in my thread saying wow you write so

well, ...., and you further posted do

you or would you give lessons.

I am willing to talk poems and poetry

but poetry in motion

is something you have to achieve.

 

If you chose to think you can only

write poems that rhyme,

I am not saying that is a bad thing,

however it will limit your scope

and abilities as a poet.

I wrote Splinters of Surrealism

and Driftwood to encapsulate

a variety of ways to look at life

through different perspectives;

many of the poems echo and mirror

each other but with totally different

takes on life.

True some days are zany and the cartoon

theme to BeetleJuice will flow through

your head. But some days as you sit

on your bedside; running your thumb

along the cord of your alarm clock,

or the stock of you shotgun

the lyrics to The Doors "The End"

will be floating through your brain.

or the Smiths "Please, please, please

let me get what I want, lord knows

it would be the first time."

 

but all these songs and all these

poets\musicians\writers have found

their voice, and you must do so to.

 

"if you can not understand

why a big red rubberband

tied around your pretty neck

as you hide your head in the sand

as you rhyme every time you can

about your life and future plans."

 

Carpe Dieum Welshwoman!

seize the day

be a Dead Poet.

Hallmark already has enough

ghost writers working for them

and so much sugar only leads

to Diabetes anyhow.

[The Welshwoman]

Wait, did I sound like I don't agree with prose being poetry? Sorry, I didn't mean that at all. I actually have some poems myself that don't rhyme. What I meant to say was that poetry in prose form doesn't usually come to me. I actually find writing poems that rhyme more easy.

 

<reads DarthEggplants comment about rhyming poems in Childrens TV Shows and Hallmark greeting cards>..THANKYOU!

 

Actually I never saw "Dead Poets' Society" so I don't know what a dead poet is supposed to be!

[Darth Eggplant]

Lesson Five:

Read some of Lateralis' poetry.

 

also Lateralis should post a lesson.

 

and also should try

to rent or watch

Dead Poets Society,

it has Robin Williams in it;

one of his great serious roles.

he was nominated for an oscar for it.

 

*he should have won it to*

[Lateralis]

hmmm...a lesson.

 

very well...apologies if any of this has been covered before.

 

firstly - rhyme. only when necessary. good poems do not have to rhyme. they have to draw an emotional response from the reader. if the poem has a really happy up beat rhyming scheme ala 4-4 in music, but is downbeat and depressed, the poem doesn't work.

 

downbeat, sad poems often work well if they don't rhyme. it suggests discontinuation, it suggests harshness and conflict.

 

Love poetry, it depends. If the love is flowing, if it is intense, the poem perhaps should rhyme, the rhythm of the heart that beats in us all. If there is conflict, it should stutter. If there is resolution there should be a logical and noticable progession.

 

secondly - words. anger is expressed best in short, sharp poetry. harsh words, broad constantants all add to the effect. contrasting words and half rhyme also help. helplessness is expressed by slow pacing, long words and sentences. energy is expressed by powerful, positive words - and all the literary terms. epic similies are used best to express a really strong feeling or emotion, where as blunt metaphors and similies, taken at face value, are merely tools to poets, a manner of expressing themselves.

 

next time: Theme, Tools, Timing.

 

hope this helps.

[Darth Eggplant]

Lateralis quote:

if the poem has a really

happy up beat rhyming scheme

ala 4-4 in music,

but is downbeat and depressed,

the poem doesn't work.

*the only exception to this rule

would be The Smiths.*

 

good lesson Lateralis,

I hope you will continue.

and now Welshy you are benifiting

from two Dead Poets.

ah, Tall Guy, or other mod,

is it possible to rename a thread

without losing it? this thread

was started as More Or Less Poetry

could it be changed to

Dead Poets Society

(that would be much more GF-esque)

*thank you if you can.*

[Lateralis]

Part: Two

 

Subsection A: Theme

 

...one should only ever write poetry about the things you feel strongest about. trying to write a poem about something about which you're apathetic is extremely hard, and rather pointless. poetry is about two things - message, and style. poets try to deliver a message to their readers, even if the message is only how they feel, it is still a message. secondly they try to do this with a certain amount of style. i could say "i feel sh!t" or i could write a poem about it. from an aesthetic point of view at least, it is better to write a poem.

 

so..what are suggested topics? as a stupid teen myself, i write about love. when you're my age, it's always real, intense, the highs and the lows. for instance, i "love" a girl, despite the complications that lie in my way. also i really despise forms of injustice in the world, of any kind - so i write about these. lastly, i write about my dreams. often this can link up to the girl(of my dreams) resulting in some very soppy, often good, poetry.

 

Subsection B: Tools

...the tools open to a poet are numerous. inspiration first and foremost. a poety should be able to find inspiration in the events of every day life, in the world around them. secondly they should have a good command of their language...(when i start posting in french, start to worry )and the concepts of grammer, diction, and rhyme. thirdly they should be able to appreciate good poetry. Lastly, and most importantly they should be able to transport their feelings to the page well. Clairty, and brevity of purpose are most important here.

 

Subsection C: Timing

...by this i mean when to put in your "killer" lines. personally i prefer to finish on my strongest notes, also having one or two mid way through the poem to strenghten it as well.

 

the poem should have one main idea through each stanza, and one main theme (secondary themes are fine) throughout as well. the reader should be left with your message, as well as at least one line that symbolises, summaries, and personnifies the idea.

 

in my first post here, under the poem Lateralis, this line was the first sentence.

 

"This is the night." summarised what the entire poem was about. night is cyclical, it passes, and gives way to the splendour of day. this is what lateralis, both poem and person is about. things change, things pass. but - some things, the important things - stay the same.

 

EXPECT MORE.

[Darth Eggplant]

Lesson Six: Song-A-Long Cassidy

 

almost any poem

by Emily Dickenson

can be recited to the tune

'The Yellow Rose of Texas.'