Etkiller Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Comments: rhyph Points: 2 Gungan Newbie Posted: 7/23/2003 08:35 Thank you SOE, for not turning SWG into a hodge podge of Ebay spamming stay-at-home freaks carving out a living by selling virtual crud for RL cash. It would ruin the game. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Terror X Points: 3 Gungan Newbie Posted: 7/23/2003 11:37 I purchased a copy of the game. It is within my rights to sell such product without express permission from the manufacturer. The accounts come with the game. A manufacturer has an obligation to the product owner to uphold his end of the sale (the online portion) regardless of who owns or plays said account. I'm going to be selling my game on E-Bay in an attempt to recover costs associated with ownership. This is my right as an American. Good luck stopping me, SOE. And I have nothing against people finding interesting ways to spend their time to make money. I say all the more power to them. And anyone that would prohibit such activities stands against all that America is built upon. To tell someone that they cannot sell something that is not real. Yet they are providing a service based on the same concept. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Don't get me wrong, I don't sell credits on e-bay, nor items. But by god, I should be able to sell an account that I'm tired of and someone else could get some enjoyment from. And I'll be darned if I shouldn't be able to turn a small profit for my time invested. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Seka Flex Points: 1 Gungan Newbie Posted: 7/23/2003 12:23 But don't you think that one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game is to create your own character and to be completely emmersed in the game as that character. Just a thought. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BrekJaxter Points: 1 Gungan Newbie Posted: 7/23/2003 13:28 I don't think it's a matter of immersing yourself in the game, the question is more of what they as owners of the game are doing with it individually. The thing is, these people aren't selling the physical game or parts of the game or the coding of the game. They're selling their own TIME used playing the game, in essence renting THEIR personal time to raise the money for you - so I believe SOE can't do anything about it, really. I have no problem with these people, they're usually the powergamers who have too much time on their hands anyway. I know a couple of them in the game and they have MILLIONS of credits, so it's no big deal to them to lose some. If they want to sell their time in getting these credits, more power to them. It's not something I would do myself, but it's their right. As for the people bidding, maybe they're people who are having trouble with the game or don't have the time to make the credits they need or just want to buy a nice house - who knows. What's SOE gonna do, tell eBay to cancel all these auctions and lose all the money they'd make on fees? Get real.... FYI: Right now there are over 900 auctions going on eBay (although many are for these "Unlimited Credit Guides" and other info you could get off the forums) and most of those are on the big "powergamer"/"uber" early servers (Bria, Chilastra, etc) - just search by "Galaxies" and you'll see them all. Every one that I looked at said they were selling their TIME to get the credits and all in some way referenced SOE's legal possession of all items in the game. Seems like they have their butts covered - maybe that learned that from other MMORPGs, who knows. And since SOE doesn't know who these people are (they can't access their eBay information) and they can't connect the eBay person to a specific account on SOE, they can't do much but bluster about it. Just my $0.02 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Juztyn Points: 177 Human Smuggler Posted: 7/23/2003 14:03 I don't think SOE has much of a problem with single people selling single accounts; the issue they want to deal with is those people who play Galaxies for the sole purpose of farming items for ebay; the people who are making hundreds if not thousands of dollars off of it. Oh, and as for your "Right as an American" to sell things you've ammassed in Galaxies, you signed a contract (and you do every time you hit 'accept' to play) that says you won't do that. So unless breaking a legally binding contract is one of your "Rights as an American", then that arguement has no validity. ------------------------------------ Juztyn SWGalaxies.net Administrator ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Terror X Points: 3 Gungan Newbie Posted: 7/23/2003 15:01 You may very well have a good point. Paste the EULA for me if you could. I'll run it by a friend of mine who is a practicing lawyer. I'm sure he'll make a work around for those people. I'm selling my entire account, box, cd, etc. I just straight up don't want the game any more. I'm also selling a friend's copy that he gave me when he got tired of the game. And he gave me his approval on it. So I think my right is to be able to sell said game w/ account. And I don't think they can stop me. Regardless of what the EULA says. If I tricked you into signing a contract saying I could kill you in 10 days if you didn't pay me x dollars. Would it be legal? If it infringes on existing rights and/or laws then it's not admissable as evidence and is as such no longer a valid binding contract. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fishhead Points: 1 Gungan Newbie Posted: 7/23/2003 16:04 I would think that selling the game for your purchased value is not going to get you into any trouble. If you make profit, then you have 'stolen' from the manufacturer. BTW: You don't OWN anything, you lease (it's a license agreement, not a title of ownership, and in fact they can cancel your ‘right of use’ at anytime for any reason – read the EULA). Ownership in the USA confers very specific rights of free-use and re-sale. Licensing does not. The reason is simple: the re-sale of for-profit characters or items ruins the game for some of those without the scratch to purchase such things on E-Bay. It might not ruin it for you, but, apparently, enough people have expressed a negative opinion to Lucas Arts regarding this matter for them to begin ‘cease and desist’ actions against those that have violated their rights. I personally think that people don’t need the un-level playing field of rich-vs-poor to be played out in their fantasy game. It’s bad enough in RL. However, it all comes down to who owns what, and in the world of software, you have very little consumer rights, and no rights at all as an owner unless you are purchasing royalty and copyright free source code. If this gives you some angst then I would suggest that you get over it before you burst a blood vessel. Some of you expressed something to the effect that what Lucas Arts is doing is anti-capitalism. Well, comrade, you need to take a lesson in rights of ownership. What Lucas Arts is doing is protecting their valuable property. The legal protection of ownership is the cornerstone of capitalism. You’ve got your philosophies and theories messed up to believe otherwise… ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Terror X Points: 3 Gungan Newbie Posted: 7/23/2003 16:31 I must comment on your statement of leasing. You are wrong. I have a sales receipt for a game that was purchased. And this copy of the software is mine. Agreed that they can cancel any account at will. But without a means to tie the account to the person it's too bad. Buy for little sell for more. Excuse me you're way off course on this one. This happens all around you every day. It is in no way against any law to purchase something improve upon it and sell it for more than the initial purchase. Cars, houses, and collectors items are good examples of this. I do indeed own my copy of the game, along with the box and the paperwork. The software (code) is protected. So is music cd's, but they are a marketable product as well. And they can be resold for a profit under law. Use of the license can be transferred. It cannot be copied, duplicated or reproduced in any fashion but in it's entirety can be transferred to a third party legally. And a profit can be made on said transfer of the right to use the software. I can purchase and build an entire PC with the intent to resell it with a profit. I can go as far as to purchase entire software packages and install, even license them and transfer ownership via sales if I wished. This is also legal. Their valuable property is in the provision of service and the code behind the game. So long as those two aspects are not comprimised in any way their rights are being adhered to. I'm not complaining or trying to turn a fast buck. I bought something tried it and do not like it. I'm not a SW Fanatic like some people are. I'm trying to recoupe lost capital. A liquidation of sorts. I sure as heck cannot return the game to the store for a full refund. Perhaps I will not get my full $50 that I paid for it, and maybe I'll double it. That's irrelivant. The point is that I should be able to confer my possession to another. So people will abuse the system, they always do. The fact remains that I can and will sell my game(s). Legally and without intent to lessen anyone's enjoyment, nor disrupt the economy. I've seen the crazy auctions and see why some might not agree with sales of intangable items. I won't argue that point because I don't do that myself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OkuDama Points: 1 Gungan Newbie Posted: 7/23/2003 17:47 Terror, you're views are rediculous. First thing, don't use that "my right as an American" crap, this country is not your tool to get out of doing something illegal. The fact that you can't sell your account is stated in the EULA, which you weren't tricked into agreeing upon, there are very clear "I Accept" and "I Decline" buttons, if you don't read what you accept, that's your very own fault. Now selling your copy of the game, I have no problem with, and it's not even stated in that official blurb that you aren't allowed to sell your copy of the game. Your account, no matter how many loopholes you want to try and find, is clearly protected in the EULA, that you have agreed to. The long and the short of it, don't be a whiner, you agreed to the rules and you can either choose to follow them, or illegaly break them, there's your right as an American. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Etkiller Points: 1 Gungan Newbie Posted: 7/24/2003 11:18 Oku you know nothing about this issue it seems.This same exact thing was tried before with EQ and they had the same EULA as before and they couldnt stop it.Playerauctions.com will explain it all in their FAQ if you bother to read the ruling it was about 12 pages basically saying that what it comes down to is selling TIME.And as far as the credits,plat,whatever the game calls money.It is digital and not material and that is why they can do nothing to stop it.It already been ruled on they are just trying to scare kids.Listen play the game for yourself.If you want to buy a guy or some credits why the **** shouldnt you.Its just a freakin game.Dont worry about these punks who say dont so this dont do that.Just do what you think is fun.**** everyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Yeah, that's all good and well, but couldn't you have taken alittle more time editting it and making the format fit with the forums first? I just got the shock of my life thinking Juz was the one that was fed up with the game and was going to sell it on EBay :D So that it doesn't confuse others aswell, I've taken the liberty of formating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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