Basic Ideas: Various Minor Additions

[razorace]

I never stated that there aren't good ideas to be found, just that a far majority of it is just chaff.

 

A simple public poll is not going to show the wishes of the wise 1% of the population.

[Samuel Dravis]

A simple public poll is not going to show the wishes of the wise 1% of the population.

Well, it would actually be .0025% of the population, according to your earlier posts.

 

I agree with Razorace in that it will generate a lot of replies, many of which would be just too much effort for the gain. Perhaps just a general poll, like "What portion of the game needs to be fixed/improved?". A few options would be: saber combat, force powers, etc. It would show us where most people had a gripe, and let us concentrate on that. Razorace, you don't have to read replies to it if you don't want to. Let Marker do it.

[razorace]

You can do polling all you want. It's just not going to really effect the submissions.

[Marker0077]

You know when you play FFA or Duel modes & the name always comes up red only? Well why not make it so that in non-team based modes (aside from Power Duel), the names come up colored just like they are viewed pretty much everywhere else (I am referring to when you have a person in your crosshair & their name appears).

 

In team based modes, the red team names should obviously be in red & the blue team names should obviously be in blue.

 

This was something that one of the Duelers users asked to be added into Duelers & I believe it was but still, this is a good idea for Basic.

[GothiX]

I don't think that's such a good idea, unless it can be toggled client-side. I mean, it's awful to look at people running around like this.

 

See what I mean?

[WhiteShdw]

Ok, now that the SDK is out, how about some kind of MP NPC fix.

 

I've been hosting some co-op games for the last 3 days for some friends of mine and while the maps arent' designed for it, I was surprised that it worked at all. I'm thinking that if you build a map specifically for co-op(meaning that you include simple scripts that work in MP)it has a lot of potential as a game type.

 

The only problem(besides things like complex scripts not working) I've encountered are the NPC's. Stormtroopers usually work ok, but saberusers are hyperactive. I'm not sure what the problem is, but I'm thinking that it has to do with the saberanimation in MP being a lot faster. If you could include a cvar like the SP cvar g_saberanimspeed (is that right?) that might fix some things.

 

Maybe i'm wrong about the saberanimation speed, but in general it would be cool to have some improved NPC's in MP. I'm thinking co-op could even make a simple ladder map pretty fun.

[razorace]

Agreed, however until someone makes a Co-Op map specifically for MP, I can't really test what needs to be done.

[WhiteShdw]

well, just spawning a couple of NPC's in a duel map should give you an indication of the current state of the AI.

 

If you want to test it some more I suggest just booting up Hoth2 in mp. That works reasonably well until you hit a closed door that can't be opened because the script isn't triggered properly.

 

Also T3_rift works reasonably well until you get to the same door problem. This one should indicate the bug's in the Reborn NPC's quite well.

 

So basically a good co-op map, or at least a fully functional co-op map would be a map withouth closed doors, filled with non scripted NPC's.

[Marker0077]

Originally posted by gothicX

I don't think that's such a good idea, unless it can be toggled client-side. I mean, it's awful to look at people running around like this.

 

See what I mean?

It's no different then looking at the scoreboard & seeing their names. You can see them just fine & it looks better. Like I said before, this was done with Duelers for JK2.

[GothiX]

I there are 5 or so people running around with those colors, in an FFA, and I'd see those during comabt, it'd be awfully distracting.

[Kurgan]

Now I don't know about Gamespy3d since I've never used it (I didn't know the difference between it and GSA or GS until I read your rant in the other thread), but:

 

There are ALWAYS Siege servers. It's the third most popular gametype (behind FFA and Duel).

 

MOST servers are playing with All Weapons and SOME force powers disabled.

 

This is how it's been in ASE for almost 2 months, and how it is in the fixed in-game server browser.

 

This isn't JK2 my friend. In JK2 it's all sabers only force/NF dueling or "honor" crap in FFA. This isn't JK2, this is JA, different animal.

 

JK2 has more game modes, but they are all pretty low except for FFA & Duel (with CTF going up and down). Again, different community.

 

Besides, if you say nix support for Siege players or gun players, you're just trying to shoe-horn JA into a JK2 clone community.

 

What's the point in that? No offense, but sounds like you're one of those "Jedi only" purists. Sorry, but Raven didn't make for you and nobody else!

[razorace]

Uuuhh. Who are you talking to?

[WhiteShdw]

I think he got his windows mixed up or something. It looks like he's replying to another thread.

 

Anyway, since he brought up Siege..... How about adding some gun tweaking support. I'll say this right now, I don't like the guns in JA.

I've been playing some CS for a while now, and after playing some Siege games with JA guns, I can't say i enjoy it. If someone could increase the accuracy and projectile speed of some of the guns I would probably enjoy it a lot more. In CS or RTCW a normal person isn't just able to dodge incoming fire that easily and I don't think anyone in JA should be either, except maybe Jedi(but personally I think they should just use their lightsaber to protect themselves like in the movies).

[razorace]

I say go for it. It's time consuming so I probably won't be doing it any time soon but it would make a great addition to the project.

[RenegadeOfPhunk]

WhiteShdw,

 

I think you will be interested in Movie Battles II - my OJP-based mod project for JKA. Amongst other things, I will be adjusting the Siege gametype to play in a more CS-esque type manner.

 

Also, I'm going to be altering the classes avaliable - adding a lot of SW specific ones like Droideka, Gungan, Sandpeople, Wookies etc. as well as the current MB I classes - Mandalorian, Hero, Soldier and of course Jedi.

 

The website is being worked on now, I'll post a link when it is ready...

[WhiteShdw]

Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk

WhiteShdw,

 

I think you will be interested in Movie Battles II - my OJP-based mod project for JKA. Amongst other things, I will be adjusting the Siege gametype to play in a more CS-esque type manner.

 

The website is being worked on now, I'll post a link when it is ready...

 

Cool. I'll keep an eye out for it.

[Marker0077]

Originally posted by gothicX

I there are 5 or so people running around with those colors, in an FFA, and I'd see those during comabt, it'd be awfully distracting.

Do you think red only names are distracting too? I don't mean to be sarcastic I'm just saying, I've never heard anyone say that before.

 

Anyways, there is a CVar built in JK2 to make the player ID come up in the center of the screen or at the bottom left I think, I'm sure it was passed down to JK3 as well.

 

Either way though, I've used it, it's certainly not anymore distracting than where the new on-screen text is printed in JK3. If you can deal with that, colored names is nothing.

 

Maybe we could just have a client side CVar for enabling/disabling it. We'll see.

Originally posted by Kurgan

Now I don't know about Gamespy3d since I've never used it (I didn't know the difference between it and GSA or GS until I read your rant in the other thread),

This is just an FYI...

 

I did some testing to see if GS3D had more servers than ASE & at the time they did but I recently did it again & the ASE server list totally blew the GS3D list out of the water.

 

The problem is GS3D can do tons more stuff, the main thing is the custom filters. You can make a filter for any specific type of server you like all varying upon the CVars each server has showing (i.e. g_forcePowerDisable, # of players, g_gametype, etc; etc.).

 

My solution is to take the server list from ASE & import it to GS3D which works out wonderfully, especially considering there are some servers in GS3D that are not in ASE.

Originally posted by Kurgan

There are ALWAYS Siege servers. It's the third most popular gametype (behind FFA and Duel).

 

MOST servers are playing with All Weapons and SOME force powers disabled.

 

This is how it's been in ASE for almost 2 months, and how it is in the fixed in-game server browser.

Yes but Siege has problems, at least with me anyways. Maybe it's because I'm a Win98 user, I don't know but when I mess around in the UI menus too much my computer locks up. So I lose interest in Siege pretty fast but I love the Swoop bikes.

 

Anyways, I didn't see that before because of the restricted server list I was getting from GS only. Now I get it from all the ASE sources & GS too.

Originally posted by Kurgan

This isn't JK2 my friend. In JK2 it's all sabers only force/NF dueling or "honor" crap in FFA. This isn't JK2, this is JA, different animal.

Not really. I can see where you are going with the "different animal" as far as Siege is concerned, that's a big improvement, but most people still just play FFA & Duel. I myself play Duel & it's not such a big change that I would consider it a "different animal". All they really did was make JK3 like JediMod with better duals & staff. To each their own opinion I suppose.

Originally posted by Kurgan

JK2 has more game modes, but they are all pretty low except for FFA & Duel (with CTF going up and down). Again, different community.

Actually I think Holocron & Jedi Master & all those game modes are still in JK3, they just don't make them accessable via the main menu probably because no one played it.

Originally posted by Kurgan

Besides, if you say nix support for Siege players or gun players, you're just trying to shoe-horn JA into a JK2 clone community

Sorry, you lost me here.

 

I'm guessing "nix" is Unix/Linux & if that's the case, why would you not make your mod "nix" compatable? They are a much better server OS to use, which is why people use it in the first place.

Originally posted by Kurgan

What's the point in that? No offense, but sounds like you're one of those "Jedi only" purists. Sorry, but Raven didn't make for you and nobody else!

Ummm, what's the point in what? Name coloring? It adds fun factor.

 

How did you get "Jedi only" purists out of that? FFA is the leading gametype & even though I don't play it, this is something that would improve it a little.

Originally posted by razorace

Uuuhh. Who are you talking to?

He was clearly talking to me at first but the last 2 paragraphs lost me a bit. Good to know I'm not the only one. :-)

Originally posted by WhiteShdw

I'll say this right now, I don't like the guns in JA.

I've been playing some CS for a while now, and after playing some Siege games with JA guns, I can't say i enjoy it.

This is the #1 concept for the "Action Jedi Outcast" mod I had in mind. The problem is a mod of this caliber will take a team of coders & I don't plan on pursuing this until at least CM is released.

 

Games like CS, Urban Terror, etc; etc. all originated from Action Quake 2 & you can call me old fashioned but I must say I prefer the original to this day & I plan on shaping AJK around AQ2.

 

CS is way cool but it's not worth dealing with all the cheaters; Besides, the HL code for firearm attacking is crap. It doesn't do firearm rounds individually, it does them in groups meaning damage isn't taken on a player until whomever is firing either misses or stops firing.

 

Example:

You can have person 1 with 1 health & person 2 with 100 health. They both start shooting at the same time. Person 2 hits person 1 first & they both unload a full clip which is enough to take off 100 health but since person 1 stopped firing (or missed a round) first, person 1 wins = gh3y.

 

The saber code in JK is similar to this as well. 2 people can not do damage to each other at the exact same time meaning if 2 people lunge at the same time, the person who lunges secondly would win because the first persons saber would only do damage until the second persons saber started making contact; Which is why you never see any draw duels. This is also gh3y.

 

Anyways, getting back on topic, I don't want to leave all the details about AJK here (just due to post size) but some of the cool features will be you can kick firearm weapons out of peoples hands with the standard double jump kick, there will be various items & weapons, each one has their own unique advantages & disadvantages, etc; etc.

 

The way I see it, if you can't take the force powers & lightsabers away & have yourself a game worth playing with just the weapons alone - you're doing it wrong. If I can make this happen then the Jedi vs. Merc mode should be fabulous, especially on these new JK3 maps where you can throw vehicles into the mix.

[WhiteShdw]

Originally posted by Marker0077

The way I see it, if you can't take the force powers & lightsabers away & have yourself a game worth playing with just the weapons alone - you're doing it wrong. If I can make this happen then the Jedi vs. Merc mode should be fabulous, especially on these new JK3 maps where you can throw vehicles into the mix.

 

You pretty much sum up my feelings right here. So far I've only been playing JK2 and JA for the sabercombat. If it had some improved weapons(no more of those standard Quake style weapons) and weapon physics, I and I'm sure plenty of other people would enjoy it a lot more. That would also help the other game types. I'm sure Siege would be the most populair gametype if it could compete with games like CS or RTCW. Adding sabercombat would just be icing on the cake then.

[razorace]

The saber code in JK is similar to this as well. 2 people can not do damage to each other at the exact same time meaning if 2 people lunge at the same time, the person who lunges secondly would win because the first persons saber would only do damage until the second persons saber started making contact; Which is why you never see any draw duels. This is also gh3y.

 

That's not 100% correct. Yes, one saber will hit first, but that's the nature of most computer programming, the game engine can only do one thing at a time.

 

However, these scans are done many times per second for each saber, so as long as the hits aren't lethal, they will both take damage.

 

When the saber hits are lethal, whoever does their saber attack scan first will do the damage and instantly kill their opponent. This prevents them from doing their attack scan and kill the other player. There's a way to fix this (make the sabers do damage for a few seconds after death), but I imagine this sort of thing was so rare that Raven just ignored it.

[Marker0077]

Originally posted by WhiteShdw

I'm sure Siege would be the most populair gametype if it could compete with games like CS or RTCW.

It wouldn't compete with CS. Last I checked RTCW can't even compete with CS which is a shame.

 

CS is a league all on it's own. Lucasarts would have to do some advertising in order to make something of that caliber become reality. Actually, they would have to implement it into the base game. Most people don't play mods, they check the game out via a demo, maybe play it in a store, not to mention to the fact of all the people who don't even know about mods, etc; etc.

 

It would definitely improve the Siege aspect & would get more people interested. Personally I think I am not the only person that Siege crashes on which is another big drawback to the gametype.

 

Even if you did get Siege with these weapons & not crashing, I still think FFA would & will always be the reigning champ of gametypes. It's that way with MoH so I would imagine it would be no different here. Although, I think Siege is much better than the MoH OBJ gametype.

Originally posted by WhiteShdw

Adding sabercombat would just be icing on the cake then.

I see it reversed tbh. SW to me has always been & will always be about using the lightsaber.

Originally posted by razorace

However, these scans are done many times per second for each saber, so as long as the hits aren't lethal, they will both take damage.

That hasn't been my experience playing online. There's been plenty of times where someone hits someone else & it's plain as day that they were hitting the person & because the opponent started hitting them second the first opponents damage stopped but like you said, it can only do 1 thing at a time which is perhaps what I am thinking of. Either way, this should be fixed.

 

Another thing that is gh3y is when you hit a person, it's plain as day you hit the person, & it doesn't count it. This is more common among the high pingers & I am thinking that perhaps when this happens to low pingers it's due to packetloss or a lag spike etc; etc. Is there anyway to resolve that?

Originally posted by razorace

There's a way to fix this (make the sabers do damage for a few seconds after death), but I imagine this sort of thing was so rare that Raven just ignored it.

it sounds like it's more than just that though. It's not just on death, it's also when you're alive & 2 people are attacking at the same time.

 

If it can be fixed that would be fabulous.

[razorace]

Most of the hit detection "issues" are the result of:

 

1) Lag

2) non-Kyle player models

3) Too low of a sv_fps setting

[razorace]

There are somethings that I can try to see if it will improve the hit detection but it will take a while to impliment.

[RenegadeOfPhunk]

Actually, they would have to implement it into the base game. Most people don't play mods,

 

Ermm - last time I checked, CS started out as JUST a mod.

 

Personally, I think most JKII / JKA mods are too involved with just jazzing up existing gameplay, rather than trying to make a totally new type of game...

 

....in fact, anybody trying to do anything too 'different' is told by a good section of the current playerbase 'you can't change that!' - and then they go and download the next admin mod that let's them /amsit - calling it the greatest mod that ever existed!! lol

 

...I'd say that's the No.1 reason why you don't see mods like CS (or DoD, or NS). Just plain lack of desire amongst JK modders to make a game like that in the first place - an attitute that is perpetuated by the playerbase itself...

[WhiteShdw]

Originally posted by Marker0077

It wouldn't compete with CS. Last I checked RTCW can't even compete with CS which is a shame.

 

I know. I think RTCW and/or DoD(Half Life WWII mod) are at least as fun and perhaps more fun than CS. You can tell that Siege mode was fashioned after RTCW's objective mode. The only difference is that with RTCW you have much better weapons and maps.

 

JA Siege mode just uses weapons from the SP game, which is crap. They should have things like weapon classes as pistols, rifles and sniper weapons. And it should have more than one weapons per class. For pistols you could have the standard pistol, the bryar gun, the Han Solo pistol(that one is different than the standard right?) and perhaps the dual Jango pistols, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. For rifles you can have the battledroid rifle, Clonetrooper rifle, standard stormtrooper rifle et.. . CS has this, so does RTCW.

 

This whole idea of using all the weapons that the Sp game has, is old fashioned I think. MP is much faster and more competitive and the weapons should reflect that.

[RenegadeOfPhunk]

And it should have more than one weapons per class. For pistols you could have the standard pistol, the bryar gun, the Han Solo pistol(that one is different than the standard right?) and perhaps the dual Jango pistols, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. For rifles you can have the battledroid rifle, Clonetrooper rifle, standard stormtrooper rifle et.. . CS has this, so does RTCW.

 

I totally agree.

...this are the kind of weapons I will be including in MB II - not just the SP game weapons. In fact I will be removing most of the SP copies...