AzureAngel Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 Originally posted by Gotaiken Sabering system Saber control Method Offense Normal attack How to do? = tap attack What Happens = you attack normally Combo How to do? = hold attack along with the proper directional keys What Happens = you combo Stop Attack How to do? = tap attack during an attack What Happens = you stop the attack Turn attack How to do? = Hold the action button (like it is now) What Happens = you turn from your attack by pivoting into another attack Defense Block How to do? = hold the alt attack button What Happens = you hold out your saber trying to block incoming attacks, by determining skill, how far away the saber is in relation with your body, speed at which your moving forward as a negative, speed at which you move back as a positive, crouching is a negative, walking is a positive, running is a negative (though running back is a positive), jumping is a slight negative Dodge How to do? = if you didn’t get the block even though you tried you have a chance to dodge, based on skill and whether or not you have the dodge to do the dodge. The dodge payment is a 4th of the damage. Manual Defense Counter How to do? = After a blocking animation the ability to attack presents itself, simply tap attack after a block What Happens = you attack out of the blocking animation (gotta enable the ability to do all attacks out of any blocking animation) Now I dont know much coding but this seems like it would be more trouble than its worth. although dodging is a good Idea you would need new animations for different kinds of dodges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 lolololol this is basically how the system already is, no real coding to do, just switch a few things around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 can you make the saber at all times deadly, no matter what, cause during the spinning right turn of the staff, when the saber is spun, that should be able to hit something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted May 20, 2004 Author Share Posted May 20, 2004 Yes, but that would piss people off. I've discovered during the course of gameplay, the saber blades tend to touch other players weither you like it or not. Normally they are just nicks due to the way the animation don't deform in real time due to physics (that's something that beyond the scope of the current engine). In fact, this occurs subtly enough that the players never notice unless they are really paying attention. Anyway, the point is that the we can't make the saber lethal 100% of the time since these nick hits would instantly kill other players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 then can you make just those type of animations attackable. its only a few of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted May 20, 2004 Author Share Posted May 20, 2004 attackable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 so that the turning animation counts as an attack animation so that the spinning saber can hit something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted May 20, 2004 Author Share Posted May 20, 2004 turning animations? wha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted May 20, 2004 Share Posted May 20, 2004 play the game, get a staff, hold right and attack, the part where the saber is spinning in the air, that should be hittable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted May 20, 2004 Author Share Posted May 20, 2004 Right, well, I beleive that's already the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 just thought about this one, the turning speed (all sabers) can you up it, to make the turning more fluid like a real turn. also i was thinking about making some sort of pivoting attack possible, not sure if it can be done, but just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted May 22, 2004 Author Share Posted May 22, 2004 Originally posted by Gotaiken just thought about this one, the turning speed (all sabers) can you up it, to make the turning more fluid like a real turn. I agree there, the spin animations do need to be sped up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 big request razor, can you add all the sabering stuff, like sped up turning animations, tweak the indivdual saber speeds, etc. in the next build, im not sure on the coding but i think that things like that should be the easiest to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 the reason i ask is because its the quickest way to boost up the beta, and itll give all the testers a feel of how the game will be, that way people can voice their opinions on what needs to be changed and such. Its also easier than adding all the other non important stuff (ledge grabbing) and the essentials (in my opinion) should be focused on first. And the most essential is the way the sabers are handled, and you can change them the quickest. Another idea i had was, can you make cvars for the indivdual attacks, regarding their speed, and each tester could make their changes and we all post are collective opinions as to what the actual speeds should be. (this isnt really that important, just an idea) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted May 22, 2004 Author Share Posted May 22, 2004 Its also easier than adding all the other non important stuff (ledge grabbing) and the essentials (in my opinion) should be focused on first. And the most essential is the way the sabers are handled, and you can change them the quickest. We do things based on what we feel like working on. Secondly, the saber system is a massive undertaking, so expecting it "done" in the next release is pretty unreasonable. The reason I started working on the ledgegrab was because Keshire had figured out the animations system and we needed a test bed to make sure it worked. In addition, other people were actually contributing material, that's a pretty big deal so those types of projects normally take presidence. Another idea i had was, can you make cvars for the indivdual attacks, regarding their speed, and each tester could make their changes and we all post are collective opinions as to what the actual speeds should be. (this isnt really that important, just an idea) Nope, we're not XMod. However, I might occasionally provide a test cvar or two to allow people to tweak things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 I understand that expected a completed mod is unreasonable. Its just that I feel that doing the basics, since they can be done the fastest and easiest, should be the number 1 priority, you could tweak the saber speeds, turn speed etc in a relatively very short time. Other request, can you give me a url to the enhanced mod, i deleted mine by accident and wiped the recycle bin later in the day. You could do the saber speeds and turn speeds then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 The Enhanced distro is up at the website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 movie battles blocking system is much more effecient then the current one in ojp, i say we use that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted May 28, 2004 Share Posted May 28, 2004 after some vigorious playtesting i must honestly say that the mb2 blocking is much more effecient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 any thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted June 3, 2004 Author Share Posted June 3, 2004 Ok, my opinion is as follows. The Good: - I like the way you can either manually set block position or have what basically is an autoblock. However, even with the autoblock = walking concept, there doesn't seem to be a need to have autoblock be a seperate button. You could just have it be whenever you're walking. - The blocks don't have the spaz saber condition of the OJP system. I'm guessing this is due to the block system having a different block radius but I don't really know. - I like the look of the micro lock stuff. - I also like the attempt at getting the players to not just spam attacking. However, since there doesn't seem to be an disadvantage to losing all your BP, I don't think it's really done yet. The Bad: - There doesn't seem to be much benefit to manually blocking at least in it's current form. - micro lock don't seem to lock the players in place so it makes it looks like their animations are just jammed. The Ugly: - For some weird reason, I keep seeing bots teleport around occasionally when they get hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 how bout this, auto block is always on, for cosmetic reasons. if a saber touches your saber but doesnt do any damage you block. with proper microlocking this will look nice. the walking concept makes sense and should be used. manual blocking is pointless so take it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gotaiken Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 btw i was thinking, if you make z targetting you could do mouse sabering pretty easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dacks Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Well in the System's defense : - There doesn't seem to be much benefit to manually blocking at least in it's current form. With Manual Blocking you can disarm the opponent of his/her saber. During battles, losing your saber mostly means dead. - For some weird reason, I keep seeing bots teleport around occasionally when they get hit. True, this happens with bots. I would suggest playing it online, as that's where it truly comes to it's justice. Players do not perform the same ''teleporting'' as bots do. And it is intended to be played online afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeOfPhunk Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 However, even with the autoblock = walking concept, there doesn't seem to be a need to have autoblock be a seperate button. You could just have it be whenever you're walking. The main consideration here is button placement. The control system needs to work when playing either gunner or Jedi. When playing as a gunner, you dont' want walk as one of the mouse buttons (this is discounting people with 3-7 button mice - I think it's safe to say the average buttons are 2...). So walk will be a keyboard key most likely... The most natural place for the 'block' button as a Jedi, however, is the right mouse button. Trying to manipulate the walk keyboard button and the directional keys during an intense duel adds unnessesary complication... And at the end of the day, our use of the right mouse button for saber defense has not caused one complaint. People have no problem having saber throw on another key - so I think this point is pretty mute anwyay... However, since there doesn't seem to be an disadvantage to losing all your BP, I don't think it's really done yet. You can still defend yourself even with no BP's. BP's are really more accurately a backup - i.e. if you miss a block, your BP's can save you and therefore prolong the duel a little bit. They can also allow you to have a limited block ability while running. But the fact is if someone was able to block exceptionally well (with block button held), that player would be able to survive without BP's for quite a bit. ..and of course this does still cut down spam attacking since to block without BP's, you HAVE to use your block button, which means you can't just constantly attack. ...well, this is the princple anyway. There are a couple of problems with this imp. in B15, but we are sorting them in the next build. SO dont' get me wrong - there is still more work to do on our saber system (some of it is already done and is waiting to come out in the next Build release) but I just wanted to clear those couple of things up... - For some weird reason, I keep seeing bots teleport around occasionally when they get hit. Yeah, this is a wierd one. As Dacks has already said, it isn't a massive concern for us, since we are prodominantly an online mod - but I will get to the bottom of that one eventually. I have a suspicion it may be to do with damage knockback - but it;s only affecting bots for some reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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