Vostocks GB2

[Puzzlebox]

"Of course it has to do with a Force power. Why are the Emperor and Vader always telling Luke to give in to his hate?"

 

I don't consider rage to be a power in used in the movies. Either way we both agree it doesn't conflict with Star Wars.

 

"And Throw Saber is not a Force Power. I have no Force Powers but I could throw a lightsaber."

 

uhuh, tell me, how exactly would it be getting back into your hand.

[Admiral Vostok]

Originally posted by Puzzlebox

uhuh, tell me, how exactly would it be getting back into your hand.

Throwing a lightsaber in itself is not a Force Power. The Jedi or Sith uses telekinesis to guide the saber through the air and bring it back to their hand. So Telekinesis is a Force Power (which includes Force Push, Force Pull, lifting things like rocks, X-Wings, protocol droids, etc), but "Throw Saber" is not a Force Power.

[Puzzlebox]

Nice try

 

Throw Saber is a force power in the game, in Star Wars it would involve using the force to guide the saber back into the Sith/Jedi's hand.

 

In the game it expends force points when done it is therefor a force power. I did not mean and obviously so that throw saber was in the movies or in the Star Wars universe a power unto itself as force lightning is.

 

I would bet you just made a slight oversight and I nailed you.

 

"Puzzlebox, what bias? The game is going to involve both individual Heroes and large scale battles, as such my scenario is a typical one and not biased in any way."

 

Your question was clearly biased and I bet if you asked anyone here they would agree with me.

[Admiral Vostok]

Okay I suppose from a gameplay point of view, Throw Saber is an ability the Jedi/Sith can use.

 

I maintain my question wasn't biased. How are you expecting the game to be played if you think my example of using both Vader and a huge army at the same time is biased?

[DK_Viceroy]

You wouldn't need the force to get a lightsabre to come back just a handheald magnets you know they had pretty strong magnets from how they rescued artoo from the dune sea.

[Puzzlebox]

Vostocs comment was that he didn't have force powers but he could throw a saber.

 

Either the point escaped you DK or you were engaging in a little self serving intellectualism. I hold that it was the latter and as such don't mind, or so you might expect.

 

Here Vostoc

 

Here was my Question-

"If you had Darth Vader in an RM Map would you rather have one force power and one unique power that is not realistic to Star Wars or power or 8 force powers that are?"

 

Here is an unbiased version of my Question-

"If you had Darth Vader in an RM Map would you rather have one force power and one unique or power or 8 force powers?"

 

Your Question-

"If you had Darth Vader in an RM Map in addition to a massive army would you rather have one force power and one unique power that is realistic enough and quick to use or 8 force powers that will require concentration that will make the rest of your army suffer?"

 

Unbiased Version

"If you had Darth Vader in an RM Map in addition to a massive army would you rather have one force power and one unique power or 8 force powers.

 

Your original question was biased because you formed it in a manner that automatically made one scenario more optimal than the other and unduly so, you alleged that mine would require a significant amount of concentration and thus would not be able to be utilized quickly, irreguardless you may just be intending to use heroes as armies after all and not surgically, if that is so it is a really stupid move, in my game Vader would not last long at all against an army.

[Admiral Vostok]

Oh, I see, in that sense yes it is biased. I thought you were meaning the situation I had described (namely using Vader alongside an army) was biased.

 

I understand now. So is your answer to the unbiased version of my question still what is was before? Namely:

The answer to your question is one force power and one unique power.

[Puzzlebox]

No my answer then would be no.

[Admiral Vostok]

So you'd prefer to micro-manage your Force Powers at the same time as organising your army? Especially if you have multiple Jedi, each with eight powers, I just don't see how this is possible.

 

I guess what I'm trying to determine is how exactly are you intending Jedi to be used in your game? If they're meant as a force in their own right, that don't need the co-operation of the rest of the army, then giving them a 8 Force Powers borders on manageable. Of course to do this their survivability would have to be pretty much the same as WarCraft3's Heroes, which I wanted to avoid because the game is so focused on the Heroes and leaves the rest of the units in the background.

 

But if you're expected to use both Jedi and an Army at the same time in a combined offensive, much like the existing SWGB, I just don't see how it can work.

[Puzzlebox]

"So you'd prefer to micro-manage your Force Powers at the same time as organising your army? Especially if you have multiple Jedi, each with eight powers, I just don't see how this is possible."

 

Not particularly, by default they will use their powers on their own, when and which powers would be used will be dealt with via unit behavior scripts.

 

In the case of heroes I would enjoy micromanaging the force powers, if I didn't have the luxury of focusing on the unit I would just set it back to default stance/lets not get this much into minutia via buttons etc...

 

I intend them to be used as surgical units, for example if an opposing player is expanding and has just started building up another base near a resource they can rush in and hack everything to pieces and be gone before the opposing players heavy units arrive.

 

Or if another player is moving a group of units to a fight, the Jedi/Sith could deal with them before they got to the battle.

 

A little thought will get you other possibilities I won't mention. Force points will exhaust fast and there shouldn't be more than twenty Jedi or Sith employed by a player an average game, and thats stretching it.

 

"But if you're expected to use both Jedi and an Army at the same time in a combined offensive, much like the existing SWGB, I just don't see how it can work."

 

I keep referring to unit behavior scripts, you know when a trooper starts shooting and you didn't tell him too.

 

Having a Jedi or Sith use his powers freely with be handled like a stance, by default they do this, but you can turn that off and play around with them if you so choose.

[FroZticles]

Pussle Box- Seems like an easy way out to just hand the role over to the computer to deal out the powers. If your Jedi have that much power I'm sure there micro would be enormous with people using hot keys to dispense all 8 powers in a matter of 5 seconds.

[Puzzlebox]

?? what are you talking about

no no no

 

Jedi Padawan

 

Hit Points-120

Attack-15

Defense-4

Armor-0

Evade(Not Shown)-10%

Shield Hit Points(Not Shown;because it doesn't have one)-0

Deflect(Not Shown)-50%

Speed(Not Shown)-Can't

Bound Speed(Not Shown)-Can't

Attack Rate(Not Shown)-1.9 Secs

Rate of Fire(Not Shown because it isn't a ranged unit)-0.0 secs

Accuracy(Not Shown)-0%

Garrison Capacity-(Not Shown because it doesn't have one)-0

Range(Not Shown because it isn't a ranged unit)-0

Area Effect(Not Shown)-0

Force Points-50

Special Action Points(Not Shown because it doesn't have any)-0

Meditation points-56

Jedi Knight-44

-------------------------

Force Push-30

Force Speed-40

X-40

X-35

 

Regeneration Time Hit Points(Not Shown)-1=15 secs

Regeneration Time Force Points(Not Shown)-1=25 secs

 

While Meditating-Hit Points(Not Shown)-1=8 secs

While Meditating-Force Points(Not Shown)-1=10 secs

Meditation Point Rate(Not Shown)-1=12 secs

----------------------------------------------------------------

*Lets clear this up*

 

Behavior Scripts. ex. health is below 30 and unit has more than 40 force points, it will use heal.

 

Remember unarmed units running in SWGB...

 

Average game will have round 15 Jedi or Sith per player provided the given player wants them.

Stance A-Unit will use force powers only when necessary.

Stance B-Unit will use force powers at will against enemies.

Stance C-Unit will use defensive force powers at will.

Stance D-Unit will not use force powers.

 

If you select ten Jedi you will see both these stances and the powers, if you want them to stupidly or not so stupidly use all of their powers on one target then you can do so, if you want them all to use Discipline so their defenses are better before a battle, do so.

 

If in said situation you want them to attack an army head on and wield their powers set them to aggressive and select stance B, then order them to the area.(In my game they are able to go to an area while attacking enemy units on the way, a sadly missing feature with the Age of Kings engine) Their unit scripts will have them attacking groups of units with force lightning(Sith) or mind trick and bounty hunters and such with force push or force choke as is the case for the Sith etc...

 

In about fifteen seconds you be upset with yourself for wasting all of your Jedi.

 

If you went with Stance A they would have healed themselves when their hit points were low enough and recovered enough health to last another ten or twenty seconds, however if you wanted them to go in and destroy the group of repeaters you could use force speed and try to run in and nail them and retreat before you lose them all.

 

They are surgical units first and foremost, but when deployed with an army they can easily make the difference.

[DK_Viceroy]

I can tell you precisely whu because Lasers are included in a different section Under Technology and DeAgonstini Is notoriusly unreliable and i have yet to receive a new issue for 5 months despite the fact that they owe me a credit

[Puzzlebox]

Are you feeling well?

[DK_Viceroy]

Just angry AT those SWINDLERS DeAgonstini

[Puzzlebox]

You're insane.

[DK_Viceroy]

Now Now Now pezzy you wouldn't want to get yourself in trouble now would you.

 

I thought that much was clear based on who my avatar was

 

 

 

 

THE GREAT Joruus C'Baoth Jedi Master Supreme

[Puzzlebox]

I thought your avatar was one of those see what you want pictures, I saw an aquatic looking thing with an odd gun.

[DK_Viceroy]

Now i wonder where oh where is that ignore list pannel there's a certain bantha cleaner i don't want to hear any more. Blasphemous infidel