Vostok's RTS Design Version 3

[Admiral Vostok]

Purism never betrays me. If you want to believe that two craft flying escort in atmosphere is enough evidence to suggest that the Geonosian Fighters will replace the thousands upon thousands of Droid Starfighters already in service, that's your problem.

 

But let's look at this realistically: Geonosian Fighters are specially designed to only be piloted by Geonosians. Do you really think the galaxy-spanning Confederacy would neglect the Droid Starfighter, which can be mass-produced much more cheaply, for a fighter whose numbers are limited to the population of a single planet? Not to mention that Geonosis is now occupied by the Republic, so Geonosian pilots would be even harder to come by. It just doesn't make sense.

 

But the most potent argument, which you seem to overlook, is that of Gameplay rather than Realism. If I include the Geonosian Fighter I have to include all the Geonosian units, and to do so would be far too unbalanced. The Separatists would have far too many units with all the Geonosian units included, and most if not all of these units already have a gameplay counterpart in the existing Separatist design. The Geonosians work far better as a Minor Faction, it would be stupid for me to have the Minor Faction system and not have the Geonosians as such.

[DK_Viceroy]

But you don't undertsand putting Minor Factions in games is increadibly unfeasible especially when you link it in with the space battles argument you even said that yourself.

 

Putting in Minor faction at the expense of the Major Factions should be avoided and Minor factions will take funds away from the rest of the game.

 

The Geonosians should be in with the seperatists. Vostok your summoning figures from thin air no where not even in EU do they claim that after naboo the federation or the other conglamorates had thousands of the droid starfighters.

 

If you actually look at episdoe 2 which should be no problem for you since you are a self proclaimed scholar you'll notice that there are millions of geonosians in the arena and millions more thoughout the hive you saw them crawling around when anakin entered the hive you saw them flying around in the production facility we didn't see that much of the hive and if what we saw so far was anything to go by there could have been several million million of Geonosians and your also neglecting that the Geonosians could have colonies elsewhere in the galaxy other hives and there were more than hives on Geonosis and it could have been quite possible to evacuate a few and set up hives elsewhere to build weapons for the confederacy after all why bother buidling a droid to build droids when you have living workers who can build droids and have the barest requirements. You saw how much i mean how little space they had a drone to about as much elbow room as a sardine this also menas they could propably reproduce very quickly and since the geonosians could propably provide themselves with all the nessacery requirements it is propably very feasible that the Geonosians would continue to work for the confederacy and how do we know that later on Geonosis is not recaptured and if it was you would have a near limitless supply of pilots and of course just think there could be hundreds of underground foundires i doubt the republic would have been able to find them all so you would end up with millions of pilots and aircraft for a good deal of them. Anyway i'm sure in episode 3 we'll be seeing Ships and things designed exclusivley for the confederacy not for any of the major powers in it for the confederacy as an entity.

 

I will continue arguing for the Geonosians inclusion in the game since they are increadibly important it's ignoring a vital piece of film, and since their is scant EU that is post ep2 and pre ep 4 period The films will be the guiding lights and the guidance they give is Droid STarfighter ou Geonosian Starfighter in.

[Admiral Vostok]

How are Minor Factions unfeasible? The developers have to create virtually all of the units anyway for the toybox, what I'm suggesting is allowing these to be played in the game. All the art and that sort of hard work is done, the second biggest job of balancing doesn't need to be done, all that is needed is the coding, which would take a day at the most.

 

Here's the realism arguments that you're ignoring:

• The Separatists are money minded and will always chose an endlessly renewable unit such as the Droid Starfighter over a limited, more expensive and less expendable unit such as the Geonosian Starfighter. It doesn't matter how many Geonosians there are, there can always be more droids for a far smaller cost.
  
• Geonosians did not partake in the Battle of Geonosis, which was on their own planet, it seems incredibly unlikely they would partake in a Separatist battle eslewhere.

Here's the gameplay arguments that you're ignoring:

• With Geonosians included, the Separatists will have too many units. They already have slightly more than the others, but Geonosian inclusion will make them far too powerful.
  
• The tasks performed by Geonosians are already covered by other units, and there's no point having redundancy.

[DK_Viceroy]

I can imagine loads of people complaining about not having the geos in. The geonosain Warrior can easily replace the stap it would be cheaper for the confederacy instead of buidling two things send a geo which also isn't suceptible to being knocked out by signal loss. The Geonosians wern't particularly ready for a war at thast time would you expect to be suddenly descended on by an army? especially by the republic. We see only 1 front of the battle of Geonosis and it also depends when you say the battle started some would say it started when anakin and padme landed some would say in the arena regardless we saw only one front and on other fronts their could have been a geonosian army there. also count poggle says he'll send his warriors to hide in the catacombs which meant the geonosians would have takemn part on the battle, also Count poggle helped the battle and he is a geonosian so therefore the geonosains took part because one of them commanded the battle. instead of having some units you cojured for some reason or another put ion Geonosian units.

 

I liked your nearlier Templates earlier because they didn't hash up what were excellently balanced factions.

 

It would take considerably more time than a day they'd have to come up with cocnept art animate them but the art in put sounds in and certainly spend more than a day coding them perhaps a week or a month which is a peroid of time not spent on major factions.

[Admiral Vostok]

Still ignoring the points above I see. There is no way anyone would chose to use Geonosians when droids are cheaper and unexhaustible.

 

It would take considerably more time than a day they'd have to come up with cocnept art animate them but the art in put sounds in and certainly spend more than a day coding them perhaps a week or a month which is a peroid of time not spent on major factions.

Read what I wrote again. I'll spell it out further for you:

Concept Art: Already done for toybox

Design: Already done for toybox

Animation: Already done for toybox

Sound Effects: Already done for toybox

Coding: Will take a day at most

Balancing: Not necessary

 

So in turning toybox units into playable units, it is an extra day of work for a huge benefit.

[DK_Viceroy]

Look If there isn't a toy box then you won't have any units to make into these minor factions and i don't beleive you when you say it'll take a day for them maybe a day for each minor faction but propably a week for each you don't do anything worthwhile quick Geonosians would fit in better than droids. Droids arn't as effective as hman beings especially aircraft wise so ergo they would us ethe geonosian starfighter instead of the droid starfighter. adding 3 more units will hardly unbalance it even more especially since i recall alot of people saying you need more units so take a hint and add them.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Originally posted by DK_Viceroy

I can imagine loads of people complaining about not having the Geos in.

The Geonosian Warrior can easily replace the STAP. It would be cheaper for the Confederacy. Instead of buidling two things, send a Geo, which also isn't suceptible to being knocked out by signal loss.

The Geonosians wern't particularly ready for a war at that time. Would you expect to be suddenly descended on by an army? Especially by the Republic.

We see only 1 front of the battle of Geonosis and it also depends when you say the battle started. Some would say it started when Anakin and Padme landed. Some would say in the arena.

 

Regardless, we saw only one front and on other fronts there could have been a geonosian army there. Also, Count Poggle says he'll send his warriors to hide in the catacombs which meant the geonosians would have taken part in the battle. Also, Count poggle helped the battle and he is a geonosian so therefore the geonosains took part because one of them commanded the battle.

Instead of having some units you conjured for some reason or another put in Geonosian units.

 

I corrected all the mistakes I could find and seperated the big text into smaller paragraphs which makes it easier on your eyes.

If you want to debate, write clearly.

[DK_Viceroy]

Thank you luke maybe Vostok will wake up and see the light from his demented path of being a xenophobe.

[Admiral Vostok]

Look If there isn't a toy box then you won't have any units to make into these minor factions

That's true, but I plan on there being a toybox since it's a very popular addition to a game.

and i don't beleive you when you say it'll take a day for them maybe a day for each minor faction but propably a week for each you don't do anything worthwhile quick

As a software writer, I know this would take a day. I could do it in a day by myself, so a team would no doubt be able to do it. Since the toybox already exists, all that is needed is the coding to allow buildings to build units. You don't have to believe me but it is true.

Geonosians would fit in better than droids. Droids arn't as effective as hman beings especially aircraft wise so ergo they would us ethe geonosian starfighter instead of the droid starfighter.

BUT DROIDS ARE CHEAPER AND EXPENDABLE! STOP IGNORING THIS POINT!

[lukeiamyourdad]

Originally posted by DK_Viceroy

Look, If there isn't a toy box, then you won't have any units to make into these minor factions and I don't believe you when you say it'll take a day for them. Maybe a day for each minor faction but propably a week for each. ???

You don't do anything worthwhile.

 

Quick Geonosians would fit in better than droids. Droids aren't as effective as human beings-->( Geonosians, not human beings. Intelligent life-form would have been better used here.), especially aircraft wise, so ergo they would use the geonosian starfighter instead of the droid starfighter. Adding 3 more units will hardly unbalance it. Even more, especially since I recall alot of people saying you need more units. So take a hint and add them.

 

Yet again... I just corrected mistakes, some sentences have missing words or don't make a lot of sense.

[DK_Viceroy]

Thanks again Luke.

 

The Geonosian Starfighter cvan be used by Geonosians and Humans it can be easily modified either way since the entire thing has a modular design it's got a far higher survivability rating than the droid starfighter it has a far superior range.

 

If a geonosian Is piloting he can use Olfactory signals and They are Incredibly deadly.

 

Since they have a higher survivability that means more come back after each mission meaning that theyr are cheaper in the long run and can help to have a greater numerical superiority and with each increase that swamps defenders meaning that even more come back in one piece.

 

 

MEANING THAT THEY ARE CHEAPER IN THE LONG RUN TO DROIDS AS WELL AS SUPERIOR

[Admiral Vostok]

They are not cheaper in the long run. Broken droids can be recycled, so the fact more Geonosians make it back is negligible.

 

The Geonosians are army builders, they are not primarily a race of warriors. If Count Dooku came to them and said he wanted to use Geonosian Starfighters, the Geonosians would rather build a droid-piloted version of the Geonosian Starfighter than send Geonosians themselves.

 

I'd also like to use this excerpt from the Star Wars Databanks to back me up:

Though labeled "warriors," Geonosians do not have a standing military. They instead use their droid foundries to build armies for corporate interests wealthy enough to afford them -- entities such as the Trade Federation and the Techno Union. Despite relatively simple minds, the Geonosians are adept at mechanical construction, and are contractors to many of the galaxy's biggest manufacturing concerns. They are responsible for the construction of some of the largest feats of engineering ever witnessed.

 

I guess I'm never going to get you to agree with me, Viceroy, so I'll just be comfortable with the fact that the only criticism you have of my design is that I've included the Separatists and the Geonosians as separate civs instead of a combined civ.

[DK_Viceroy]

Give the Einstein a cookie he's finally realized what I stated sveeral Posts ago

 

Remeber This

 

The Geonosian Starfighter should be in the separatists.

 

That applies to the pair of your templates no matter how many times you blown your horns ring your bells and argue to your blue in the faces they should be in.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Originally posted by DK_Viceroy

The Geonosian Starfighter can be used by Geonosians and Humans. It can be easily modified either way since the entire thing has a modular design. It's got a far higher survivability rating than the droid starfighter. It has a far superior range.

 

If a geonosian is piloting, he can use olfactory signals and they are incredibly deadly.

 

Since they have a higher survivability rating, it means more come back after each mission, meaning that they are cheaper in the long run, can help them gain a greater numerical superiority and with each increase, it swamps defenders, meaning that even more come back in one piece.-->Weird sentence. I badly corrected it because I have a hard time figuring out what you exactly want to say here.

 

 

THEY ARE CHEAPER IN THE LONG RUN TO DROIDS AS WELL AS SUPERIOR

 

 

1-It takes time to train a pilot.

2-Droids can simply have a flight program implanted in them.

3-Not good bussiness to send workers to their deaths.

4-Clones have already proven their superiority as pilots and soldier in general thus creating human/geonosian/alien piloted vehicle would prove quite costly in terms of lives.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Originally posted by DK_Viceroy

Give Einstein a cookie. He has finally realized what I stated several posts ago.

 

Originally posted by DK_Viceroy

The Geonosian Starfighter should be in the Separatists.

 

That applies to your two templates. No matter how many times you blow your horn, ring your bell or argue until your face is blue, they should be in.

 

 

He really needs to be Einstein to figure out what you're trying to say.

 

*Made the post clearer*

[DK_Viceroy]

But The geonosians already have trained pilots they can Train Others, Living Pilots are Far Superior to any flight program or droid they don't have intuition they don't have feelings they can't think on their feet and also their very vulnerable to any Ion Blasts and of course vulnerable to being affected by loss of signal since if a Droid Starfighter looses signal for more than 2 minutes it self destructs, Your also forgetting what powers a droid Starfighters Engnine, Fuel Slugs which means they have to return for refueling a lot quicker than other Fighters.

[Admiral Vostok]

Viceroy, I suggest you go and read all about Geonosians and Geonosian Fighters in the Star Wars Databanks. They support the fact that Geonosians are not a militarily-active part of the Confederacy. In fact the EU parts, which I would have thought you of all people would pay close attention to, directly contradicts many of the points you've made above.

 

Now, let's leave this point since I can argue until I'm blue in the face but Viceroy will never see the truth. Is there anything else in my design that warrants discussion?

 

Just another comment about Minor Factions: this is probably one of the most important features of my design. Not only is it a unique idea no-one else has done before, but it would improve sales since many people want to play as some of these Minor Civs but wouldn't be able to if they needed to be properly developed and balanced like a Major Civ.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Originally posted by DK_Viceroy

But the geonosians already have trained pilots. They can train others.(1) Living pilots are far superior to any flight program or droid. They don't have intuition, they don't have feelings and they can't think on their feet. Also they're very vulnerable to any Ion Blasts and of course, vulnerable to being affected by loss of signal.(2) If a Droid Starfighter loses its signal for more than 2 minutes it self- destructs.

(3)You're also forgetting what powers a droid Starfighters engine, Fuel Slugs which means they have to return for refueling a lot more often than other fighters.

 

1-They also are more costly, need training, cost food, etc.

2-Canonical proof? Even if there is, the Tie fighter also has limited range. If its command ship blows up and it's left alone, there is no way it will survive.

3-Canonical proof? There no proof of this anywhere besides some EU material which aren't that reliable.

 

Why would they need a long-range fighter? The Empire did pretty well with almost none.

[Admiral Vostok]

Indeed LukesDad has brought up an important point that I was going to suggest. Giving the Separatists access to the Geonosian Fighter would make them stronger than the Empire when it comes to aircraft. However I firmly believe the Separatists should have the worst air of all the civs, since they rely on numbers and not skills.

[DK_Viceroy]

How Dare You Doubt The Supreme God Of EU

 

I am indeed going off EU I have my Data files right here though because of Deagonstini's unreliability They know owe me a years worth of credit and heavn't sent so much as a scarp of paper.

 

They are faster And Far superior, EU has nothing to do with you you have said that repeatedly you have said it more time than i have said truth, and what i speak is truth in all and every way the Geonosian Starfighter is Superior.

[lukeiamyourdad]

From Star Wars Databanks, under Geonosians:

 

Though labeled "warriors," Geonosians do not have a standing military. They instead use their droid foundries to build armies for corporate interests wealthy enough to afford them

 

 

Under Geonosian Starfighter:

 

and unlike their battle droid designs, the Geonosians have not marketed the craft to outside consumers.

 

This is mostly due to the ship's control systems being specificially tailored for a Geonosian pilot.The complex multi-axis control yokes require a Geonosian's dexterity, and vital performance feedback is provided to the pilot via a scent-stimulator mask that exploits the accute Geonosian olfactory senses.

 

 

Oh and by the way: Databanks>Your EU data files

[Admiral Vostok]

Indeed, yet the so-called "EU God" believes otherwise:

The Geonosian Starfighter cvan be used by Geonosians and Humans it can be easily modified either way

[DK_Viceroy]

I doubt The veracity of star wars .com since most of the information there is either out of date or inaccurate or both.

 

If as you claim they didn't have a standing Military which is wrong, Then how did they have Pilots ready to Pilot those Fighters. A Fighter force would certainly coutn as a standing Military and those warriors in the foundry certainly count as well as that huge sonic cannon they used in the arena and with the speed they pulled it out they must have a large amount of their own military equipemtn ready for a moments use.

 

And I read that In one of my issues that was increadibly chewed up by the dogs unfortunatly it was too damaged to make all of it out but that was the general gist. I have asked for a replacement but as i have said before DeAgonstini is as reliable as Ivan The Terrible is at Deleveirng a pizza from beyond the grave.

[Admiral Vostok]

Something tells me starwars.com would know a bit more about Star Wars than your mysterious datafiles which are only available in the UK.

 

By the way a Security Force is not a Standing Military. Naboo also had a Security Force, yet as Panaka said "We have no army".

[lukeiamyourdad]

Originally posted by DK_Viceroy

How Dare You Doubt The Supreme God Of EU?

 

I am indeed going off EU, I have my Data files right here though because of Deagonstini's unreliability, they owe me a year's worth of credit and haven't sent so much as a scarp? of paper.

 

They are faster and far superior-->Superior to what?. EU has nothing to do with you. You have said that repeatedly. You have said it more often than I have said truth-->Reformulate and what I speak is truth, in all and every way the Geonosian Starfighter is superior.

 

Goddang it man. If you weren't british I would understand but this is ridiculous.

It's supposed to be your native tongue(or second I don't know). It's the one you use everyday. You're being corrected by a vietnamese french canadian guy to whom english is the third language.