Attack bonus and critical hits - D&D rules question

[Achilles]

I'm trying to figure out the benefit of the Critical Strike feat tree in KotOR. As some of you may remember me mentioning before, I am a complete D&D (PnP, AD&D, etc) n00b

 

Here's what I think I understand thus far:

 

In a d20 system, all rolls are based on a 20-sided die. To score a critical hit, your attack roll must be either 17, 18, 19, or 20 (depending on the critical hit range of the weapon). If one of these numbers are rolled then damage is doubled, unless the critical range has a modifier (i.e. Massive Criticals), then a separate die is rolled to determine if the damage is tripled, quadrupled, etc.

 

Additionally, characters are granted a base attack bonus (BAB) based on their level. This enhances the characters ability to land a blow in combat. In KotOR Scouts, Scoundrels, Consulars, and Sentinels have a max BAB of 15 (at level 20). Soldiers and Guardians have a max BAB of 20 (at level 20).

 

On top of the BAB, the attack roll is also affected by the character's dexerity bonus and any attack bonuses granted by the weapons/armor/items the character is wearing/using.

 

So, if my "To Hit" is at 20 (thanks to BAB, cool weapon upgrades, etc) does this mean that I score a critical hit every time I roll? If so, what is the point of the Critical Strike feat tree (or Sniper for that matter)? I could use the default attack and score a critical hit, correct?

 

Lastly, I noticed that in the description for Critical Strike, it states that it only works with Melee weapons. Does this mean I cannot use it with lightsabers?

 

I've never used this feat before if helps to explain my sudden curiousity:D

 

TIA for any and all responses!

[DarthBuzzard]

I don't know very much but I'll help with what I can...

 

I **THINK** that you're "to hit" number is used every time you attack. whenever you make a move, your "to hit" number is rolled against the targets defense. the higher your to hit roll is, the better chance you have of smacking your opponent. Likewise, the higher your targets defense roll is, the better chance it is they can escape the blow. I don't know what happens after that but im 90% sure that's what happens.

 

Melee weapons refers to all weapons that are close ranged, sword and saber mainly. HOWEVER on your feat selection they are two different things...

 

If i made any sense I hope i helped

[Achilles]

Thanks for chiming in DarthBuzzard. Although your input is appreciated, it does not answer my question. I'm aware of the significance of the To Hit roll and how it measures against an opponents' Defense roll, I'm just not clear how Critical Hit play into the equation

[DarthBuzzard]

How critical hit plays into the equation...I'm looking for some links/material to help you, but it may be a while achilles I'll let you know if I find anything interesting...so far its been sifting through basic d20 rules.

 

:EDIT: does this help?

 

When a character makes an attack roll and gets a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), the character hits regardless of the target's Defense, and the character has scored a threat of a critical hit. To find out if it is actually a critical hit, the character immediately makes another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll that scored the threat. If the second roll also results in a hit against the target's Defense, the attack is a critical hit. (The second roll just needs to hit to confirm a critical hit; the character doesn't need to roll a second 20.) If the second roll is a miss, then the attack just deals the damage of a regular hit.

 

A critical hit multiplies the character's damage. Unless otherwise specified, the multiplier is x2. (It is possible for some weapons to have higher multipliers, doing more damage on a critical hit.) Some weapons have expanded threat ranges, making a critical hit more likely. However, even with these weapons, only a 20 is an automatic hit. The Critical column on Table: Ranged Weapons and Table: Melee Weapons indicates the threat range for each weapon on the tables.

 

Bonus damage represented as extra dice is not multiplied when a character scores a critical hit.

 

I found it on this website...http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/srd/srd_modern_html/msrdcombat.html

[Darth Dex]

Him, I'd love to help, but I more confused than anyone else.

[Achilles]

Originally posted by DarthBuzzard

I found it on this website...http://www.darkshire.net/~jhkim/rpg/srd/srd_modern_html/msrdcombat.html

Thanks again DarthBuzzard. I read something very similar to that right before I posted my original message.

 

I guess I'm still up in the air regarding the benefit of having Critical Strike over Flurry or Power Attack.

 

I thought maybe I was missing something, however it appears that Critical Strike is just a bloated p.o.s. feat

 

If I can roll a 20 with Critical Strike and have a critical hit and I can also roll a 20 with Flurry and have a critical strike, then I don't understand why anyone would waste feats on that tree. I suppose that the threat range is the determining factor, but you can get the same thing with Nextor crystal.

 

Also, I still don't understand if my Level 20 Guardian is landing a critical strike everytime he swings with his +20 BAB, etc.

[DarthBuzzard]

Well, it appears Bioware is using a modified D20 system, and one thing I've noticed is that critical attacks are incredibly common (basically what you wrote achilles) It appears that many people were confused by this (definentally me!), and also angry. (Bioware's forums, I found a thread where someone wrote 2 pages of statictics of critical hits and how d20 shouldn't allow the critical hit to be so common because a person with a 1 to hit could kill a person with 40 defense with a critical hit or something). I have never really used the critical hit, IMO it is useful only for scoundrels because they can stun the enemy then deal the finishing blow. (I usually add it to my PC with KSE just for fun )

 

Ooooh and now to get back on topic...did you get what you were looking for??

[Achilles]

Originally posted by DarthBuzzard

Ooooh and now to get back on topic...did you get what you were looking for??

Not sure yet. I'm starting a new game and I'll track the feedback screen to see what's up.

 

Thanks for the Bioware info. I didn't think to check their forum

[DarthBuzzard]

Originally posted by Achilles

Not sure yet. I'm starting a new game and I'll track the feedback screen to see what's up.

 

Thanks for the Bioware info. I didn't think to check their forum

 

Well good luck...I know I'm interested in what you have to say, so report back Then I can publish meticulious studies on Achilles results and become...Dr. Buzzard But really...good luck, and if you want I can try to find more stuff for you

[RedHawke]

Originally by Achillies

In a d20 system, all rolls are based on a 20-sided die. To score a critical hit, your attack roll must be either 17, 18, 19, or 20 (depending on the critical hit range of the weapon).

 

This is true, a 20-sided die roll is used for all attacks. Usually only an unmodified naturally rolled 20 would be a critical hit. But in D20 the critical threat range numbers indicates if a critical is scored if the natural unmodified D20 roll is the lowest number in the range or above, even then no matter what a natural 20 is always a critical hit.

 

Originally by Achillies

If one of these numbers are rolled then damage is doubled, unless the critical range has a modifier (i.e. Massive Criticals), then a separate die is rolled to determine if the damage is tripled, quadrupled, etc.

 

Critical damage is rolled normally, then the massive criticals dice are rolled (if any) then multiplied by the critical damage multiplier of the weapon used. That is represented in the game by the X? after the critical threat range, like so 17-20 X3 (This weapon will score a Critical on a natural roll of 17+, and do triple damage).

 

So to answer your question Achillies, your bonuses shouldn't affect your chances at a critical hit at all only the natural unmodified die rolls give you critical hits. That is why the Critical Strike and Sniper Shot lines of Feats are so nasty, they add to the possible critical threat range, enabling you a far better chance to do massive damage on a single hit.

 

With a weapon that crits on a natural roll of 17-20, level one Critical Strike or Sniper Shot would make that weapon Critical on a natural roll of 13-20, level two Critical Strike or Sniper Shot would make that same weapon Critical on a natural roll of 9-20, level three Critical Strike or Sniper Shot would make that same weapon Critical on a natural roll of 5-20.

 

A 5-20 chance on a D20 is a 75% chance to do double or triple or even quadruple damage, that is a major can of whoopass in anyones book.

 

 

I always face Malak, Single Saber, Master Dueling, and Master Critical Strike, first wipe out his recharging stations with Force Lightning then whack him with Critical Strike until he drops... and he will drop... fast.

 

 

Critical Strike and Sniper Shot also have a chance of stunning a target as well.

 

And Yes Critical Strike does work with Lightsabers.

 

I hope this helps answer your questions Achillies!

[Achilles]

Thanks for the info, Redhawke. I was not aware that the ranges "stacked" like that. I thought the greatest range possible was 17-20. I think I'm a huge Critical Strike fan now

[RedHawke]

^^^^

The best item critical threat range you can get is 15-20, but the feats can definately go further than that, with a 15-20 item and Master Critical Strike it will give you a critical on a natural roll of 3-20 or something like that, its discusting.

 

But yes, Critical Strike and Sniper Shot pwns!

 

Flurry the little guys and Crit Strike the heavies!

[DarthBuzzard]

!!! Well, I guess that I'm going to be using more of Critical Strike in the near future. What I've been using in the past (if I'm scoundrel or decided to give myself lots of feats, powers, and levels and stuff with KSE . ) is that I use Critical Strike to do some good damage (with stun possibility) and then power attack for MASSIVE damage + sneak attack bonus where enemy is incapacitated (stunned).

 

Thanks for the info RedHawke

[RedHawke]

^^^^

You two are most welcome.