Finally accused of cheating, how about you?

[TK-8252]

Originally posted by Kurgan

I mean like, does it appear in the window where you pick your team in-game, or is it like on the loading screen where it loads the map?

 

It's just a message that appears on the bottom of your screen as you're playing.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by TK-8252

It's just a message that appears on the bottom of your screen as you're playing.

 

 

Interesting, so it appears "while" you're playing, not the instant you join or something. Does it just appear once? Multiple times?

[Oidar]

multiple times and from what I've seen it only appears when the server lags terribly. I wasn't able to grab a screen of it quick enough but I did manage to get one of the message in the console. Everyone started to get little lag spikes then BOOM our pings went from 90-125 to over 750. It only seems to happen when it lags really bad or at least thats what I've seen.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Oidar

multiple times and from what I've seen it only appears when the server lags terribly. I wasn't able to grab a screen of it quick enough but I did manage to get one of the message in the console. Everyone started to get little lag spikes then BOOM our pings went from 90-125 to over 750. It only seems to happen when it lags really bad or at least thats what I've seen.

 

Interesting, very interesting. I seem to recall that when people mentioned it in my server, we were either lagging at the time, or lots of people were joining (and every time somebody joined there was a slight pause).

 

Could the speed hack be some kind of debugging fix that LA put in to deal with lag prediction? But forgot to comment out the message when they finished the game up? Or perhaps it was some failed cheat detector?

[Shok_Tinoktin]

Originally posted by Kurgan

I've seen people do this, but I have one question: are you holding any kind of movement keys when you're doing this, or are you only using the mouse to move after you leap off? Because with my method I'm strafing and moving forward the whole time. I just wondered if that was even necessary.

 

I just hold 'w' the whole time. And I too, have gotten the speed hack thing, but assumed it was a bug or something, because I didn't notice anyone moving faster then normal.

[d'spadawan]

I have had this message also, in the middle of playing a game, but I wasn't lagging at the very moment it came up however I lagged at other moments on the server (was a home server I think) I had my (sorry if this sounds nooby but I don't know it's actual name)shotgun thingy on which makes you run faster when it happened and I was running about alot with it, when I seen the message on my screen I thought it was the admin, and he knew a feature to print messages on my screen like the features in JK2 and JKA. But now I think it's just a bug, I don't cheat and I have the origanal copy of RC not warez or cracked.

 

Just to put it out here(if it hasn't been already), there was speed hacks for the UT games, maybe RC is expecting them too.

 

Maybe it's some kind of joke the developers put in not knowing how often it would occur..just a guess.

[Oidar at Work]

I don't think you'll find it being caused by a hack from another game. This game is using a modified version of UE2.5. The file structure is similar to that of UT2K4 but the files are named with different extensions also from what I understand when the second to last UT patch came out it almost totally eliminated any kinds of hacks that could be used in that game.

I'm guessing this message is kind of like the connection interupted message from JA.

I've never seen it unless there has been a lag issue and I've seen it on almost every server I've been on.

 

When someone host a server though there should be some kind of log file made, maybe that would have some more info in it.

[Kurgan]

Good detective work guys. So it's not just people being paranoid, it actually is something happening, but we're not sure what.

 

 

I seem to remember back in the day some mod for UT called "Zero Ping" that would let you have instant hits and actual zero 0 on the internet in the game.

 

But the developers officially denounced it because it was fatally flawed... a person could disconnect their internet connection, run up to the now frozen other players, shoot them all in the head, then reconnect and get all the kills.

 

Could the "speed hack" with regards to lag have something to do with that?

 

Or maybe tell us what the "speed hack" was and exactly what it did in UT... that might shed some light. I played UT for a long time, but not UT2k3 or 4 (only the demo) so I never experienced any "hacking."

[Oidar]

i downloaded a couple Generic "speedhacks" to test to see where this problem was coming from. Found something rather interesting.

 

What I've found is that currently with RC there are no working hacks for it, there are no UT hacks that work for it and as of the last patch the "speedHacks" that were usable in UT became useless.

 

The generic speedhacks I got (won't post the links to them) did nothing to enhance your game play infact it was quite easy to see i was using one. Your ping increases incredibly, usually I ping an easy 90-125 my ping was over 900 with the hack on.

These generic hacks just speed up your system making the game run faster, on the net they worked horrid and caused exsessive lag.

 

I did however jump on a non dedicated server and within a matter of a couple min the "speed hack detected" message came up and everyone had been experiencing lag.

 

So, my final though and conclusion on this is this.

The speed hack detected message is being caused by lag. Its most likely very much like the connection interupted message you get with JO/JA. I think though that the reason it says "speed hack detected" is a joke on behalf of the people from Unreal.

I did email LA to see if they could shed any light on the subject, I'll let you know if i get an "official" response.

[Kurgan]

Good job Oidar, that info really helps.

 

So we can pretty much just ignore this until it's patched. Too bad it will make some ignorant people think that real cheats are being used. But if we admins don't take it to heart, it shouldn't matter.

 

Still, it may make some people paranoid. ; P

 

Well, I got accused of hacking again today (not a day goes by where I play and don't get accused it seems). This time it was by this guy named "Gregory." When he "emptied an entire clip into you and you didn't die" he proceeded to throw out accusations.

 

Then again, he called everyone who scored on him a "MODDER FAG", "MOD FAG" or similar. He also posted his (fake) home address claiming he wanted to physically fight the people on the server and "beat your fag ass".

 

It was rather surreal. Anyway... heh

 

PS: Got some interesting responses from the LucasArts Forum thread

 

Xersues

Total Posts: 48

Member Since: 10/04 Date Posted: Mar 21, 2005 01:17 PM

 

The patch before the latest UT patch to the engine fixed this if I remember right.

 

It occurred during the following:

 

Low latency when you have broadband in a low latency server

Certain mods had it worse then others

Glitch in the UTserver manager that could cause people with low latency to show up as high, so in the conflict it would yell speed hack, even though your own latency was being read inccorectly.

 

All this should have been fixed in the latest UT engine. If not LA has some 'splainin to do

[Oidar]

Right, so I got a reply to my email and well... Would this be considered an answer?

 

Hello,

 

Has this error occurred on one specific server, or every server you've tried?

It may be that you are being alerted to another player using some sort of 'hack'

while playing. It has often been reported that the error is given wide-spread

through the server in order to warn other players of possible cheating. Keep

your eye on http://www.lucasarts.com for more information regarding this issue.

 

Sent information gathering questions

 

If you need further assistance, you can also reach us online at

http://support.lucasarts.com. Please include all previous replies when/if

responding to this message.

 

 

Best Regards,

********** at LucasArts Technical Support

 

 

I took out the name of the person that helped me.

 

So...ok,

I'm confused cause currently there are no known cheats, be they Unreal or any unreal based ones that work with RC. Trust me on this, I've been downloading every UT based cheat I can find and none of them work.

I'm writing a reply to this cause I'd like some clarification and wtf does sent information gathering questions mean?

I love talking to the Techs at some companies its like trying to get information from a hindu guru.

A long drawn out process which usually has great rewards at the end of it but geezus its a process to get the info you want.

 

I'll keep posting as I get new info.

[BeBop]

lol kind of sounds like something the guy would just cut and paste as the first reply to anyone who reports a on screen error message. Well good luck with that... hope you don't give into their little 'stress the error reporter out till they go away' game. j/k

 

Sent information gathering questions

 

ooookay......

[Kurgan]

Perhaps they are just waiting for more people to report the error (Ie: if one person does it, he's crazy, if two people do it, probably weird, three people, etc... finally it's a movement!)?

 

Long as you've got his attention you might want to mention some of the other stuff!

 

Anyway, best of luck.

 

At least they're aware of it...

[Kurgan]

Running a dedicated server for the first time (where I actually sort of knew what I was doing) and saw some interesting things in the panel window:

 

ScriptLog: Possible speed hack by ######

ScriptLog: Possible speed hack by ######

ScriptLog: Possible speed hack by ######

 

 

(where #### was the name of the player, occured to several of them, so I assume it was just lag)

 

The window also shows peoples IPs. I wish there was a way to just display a nice list of who was in the game (or see what people are saying), etc, but I don't know enough about the UT2k4 console and any changes LA did to RC's version of it.

[Kurgan]

On the upside, people have taken to calling me a "noob" now instead of a "hacker" (with few exceptions, heh). So I guess we're making progress!

[Nokill]

well i gotten kicked on a server for suspicion of cheating

and i yust gotten the hang of killing ppl again at that point

and i lost it becouse of it

[Kurgan]

If a person accuses you, you could ask "how am I cheating?" that can sometimes buy you some time.

 

 

I find it hard to believe that you were "kicked" though, considering nobody is able to kick people.

 

The only way I've seen that people get kicked is if the server goes to the next map and more people join ahead of them and it says they were kicked, or if MaxIdle time is set and people get kicked for standing around for too long.

 

I know of no way to manually boot people in RC, that's the trouble.

 

I'm sure as soon as its possible people will get kicked just for winning, but that's a risk you take in any game. Still, I'd love to know how to kick, if it were possible. The old UT commands don't work.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Whoa, triple post there Kurgan

 

But is it just me, or is this problem more common in the Star Wars MP gaming community. I've only played a bit of JO and JA MP and Battlefront other then RC.

 

Battlefront didn't suffer from "lamerz" like this, at least, I didn't play a lot outside clan battles.

 

I've had the most experience from BF1942/Vietnam and Enemy Territories(and some other WWII related shooter but this one is my fav) and never have I had a server admin(or in this case host) kick me out of the server(or in this case, pull the plug) for being on top of the K/D list.

 

My experience with JA and JO isn't much but I know a lot about all the "honor" and bowing and everything fun about it but I would not believe it would happen in a shooter without Jedi being involved.

[Oidar]

I've been bitched at cause i shot someone while they were typing. I figure if your gonna type then your taking your chances at being killed by me or someone else.

 

The people that really seem to complain the most are the honor ppl from JO/JA. There wasn't any honor BS in DarkForces2:Jedi Knight. Dunno where it came from, probably the same place the noob admin tools came from.

 

RC will always have people about stupid things, cheats, people being cheap and using the AA or repeater. Those people need to grow up.

 

I've been kicked from BF1942 servers for owning the admin on at the time. I've been kicked from DOD servers for doing the same.

This didn't happen all the time, just on certain servers, if your in a clan and quite good it can cause alot of problems as well cause then people are constantly calling you out trying to make a name for themselves.

 

Odd 'eh. Its almost like street fighting or being in the mafia.

People will go around saying, Oh will I beat, so-an-so and then instantly expect people to be in fear of them.

 

Sad fact is, if you suck at FPS games then you suck at FPS games.

Certain games allow for a greater degree of "stress" to the player, Quake for example with its notorious Rocket jump, or the unreal games where you can easily pick up 200armor and 199health and just go brutal on everyone.

 

 

Point I'm trying to make is this, no matter what the game, or what kind of game. Someone will always be ready to call the person on top a cheater, for some strange reason it makes them feel justified if their killed by the person, "oh well doesn't matter that I died, cause that person is a cheater". Even on "cheat" protected servers someone will always use the C word.

I've even seen it at lan tournaments.

 

Cheaters are the lowest rung on the online gaming ladder, they choose to use exploits and hacks to make themselves seem almost godlike in a game and usually suffer from what we grown-ups like to call "bitchy baby syndrom"

 

I can't stand cheaters, never could, never will. Counter strike and Americas Army are the worst I've seen for cheaters(and I play both) There always seems to be some smacktard that wants to ruin the game for everyone and I for one, feel sorry for that person.

 

See this started about RC and ended up being an I hate asshole cheaters rant.

[lukeiamyourdad]

*pads Oidar on the back*

 

It's alright mate, let it all out.

 

 

It happens to me that the word "cheater" comes across my mind sometimes.

This one time, I was playing Forgotten Hope and some guy killed 3 of my teammates and me in 4 shots, none missed.

 

For a second, I thought he cheated(never would I call anyone a cheater). I sat down for a sec and realized that he was only good and we were stupid enough to run out of cover on an open plain without any obtacles between us and him.

[Oidar]

a few weeks ago on Day of Defeat I got 5 kills on a 30 round clip from a Thompson. I was instantly kicked from the server for using an "aimbot". All I kept thinking was wtf. someone kills a half dozen people with a grenade by tossing it into a room they claimed they didnt know anyone had been in and I get kicked cause the people on the enemy team like to run in a straight line.

It was quite dumb but a quick change of my name and I was right back in there.

 

I can understand some people running around stupidly calling others a cheater on RC, fact is sometimes you'll shoot someone and it doesn't seem to register that their being hit, either that or your totally missing and are a crap shot. Either way its only a small percentage that will grumble cause they think things aren't balanced.

 

Heheh, I love forum arguments where someone says a certain team is at a disadvantage cause of their weapons. Everyone is using the same freaking weapons, how is that a disadvantage to a certain team? Oh wait, its cause one of the teams has scales on their fingers thus not allowing for optimum contact and feel on the trigger of a gun. Thats got to be the disadvantage, curse the devs!.

 

My biggest complaint with people that call others cheaters is this, NO PROOF. They make the call then can't back it up. Its like if I ran upto Kurgan on his server, shot him and he didn't die...is he cheating? no, not likely the reason he didn't drop is cause I didn't shoot him enough. I could understand if you nail someone face on with the AA gun and they dont die and you do. That might.(remember I said might) be a reason to look suspiciously at someone but its not a reason to call someone a cheater.

 

In regards to BF1942. I was in a match one day and and was sneaking around the back of an island(playing as a sniper) and to my suprise I had someone coming directly towards me, right over the mountain i was going around. I was shot and promptly asked how the guy knew i was there, someone informed me that he was using a radar hack. I decided to test this by hiding in buildings and under docks and sure enough everytime I was killed. I finally had enough and in a failed attempt to have the fool vote kicked I was killed once more, forcing me to leave the server from sheer frustration.

 

To bad anti cheat software like punkbuster doesn't work that great, if it did you'd probably see alot less threads about people calling other people cheaters.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad

Whoa, triple post there Kurgan

 

But is it just me, or is this problem more common in the Star Wars MP gaming community. I've only played a bit of JO and JA MP and Battlefront other then RC.

 

Battlefront didn't suffer from "lamerz" like this, at least, I didn't play a lot outside clan battles.

 

I've had the most experience from BF1942/Vietnam and Enemy Territories(and some other WWII related shooter but this one is my fav) and never have I had a server admin(or in this case host) kick me out of the server(or in this case, pull the plug) for being on top of the K/D list.

 

My experience with JA and JO isn't much but I know a lot about all the "honor" and bowing and everything fun about it but I would not believe it would happen in a shooter without Jedi being involved.

 

Yeah, "oh no, a moderator broke his own rules, ban him!" it's because I made (or tried to make) that post as I was leaving out of town and the forums exploded! Database error, please try again later, blah blah blah.

 

I tried...

 

As to the whining being specific to the SW community I say "baloney." In SWBF people whined about bots, Jedi, camping, spawn camping, and bugs. They also whined about vehicles. People will whine about anything and everything that makes them lose in a game or just to pass the time. Not every single player of a game whines, but there's enough folks out there that it can't be denied that the problem exists. In every game community I've been a part of there have been whiners, Star Wars or not.

 

In RC you can go through a few games without anyone talking at all. This is probably because there's a lot of non-english speakers (though I've seen people talk in their own languages), kids (13 years old seems to be the average age), and people who don't realize how to type in the game (hit T to talk!).

 

Many people don't know how to pick up weapons, how to use team chat, voice chat, or what to do when you run out of ammo. Clearly manual reading is not something everyone who buys the game does. Anyway, I digress.

 

IF you've ever hosted a game on the internet for awhile, you've seen all these kinds of people.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Oidar

I've been bitched at cause i shot someone while they were typing. I figure if your gonna type then your taking your chances at being killed by me or someone else.

 

Agreed, and generally accepted by the competative gaming communities at large. "Go use IRC if you're wanting to chat without dying."

 

 

The people that really seem to complain the most are the honor ppl from JO/JA. There wasn't any honor BS in DarkForces2:Jedi Knight. Dunno where it came from, probably the same place the noob admin tools came from.

 

I don't interview every person who plays RC and whines if they are an honor player from JA/JK2. Generally people who even mention those games either do so to whine that RC lacks any game mode options (ie: talking about Siege, even I do this) or to say "Jedi are pussies, they suck! They're so cheap and stupid. REAL grunt soldiers are what this game is about!" and thus bash JA/JK2 (I heard plenty of SWBF players do the same thing when that game came out).

 

If they were honor players I would think they would instead by praising JK2/JA and demand that RC be more like it, rather than say they are so glad they are finally rid of the previous game.

 

Whining about being killed while typing, whining that a certain weapon is "cheap" these are all things I've heard outside of SW games before. So it's not something that came about as a result of JK2/JA.

 

As to the origin of the honorz thing, yes, it started in JK2, however.. though I was never a part of the Heretic II community, people complained that the game was "ruined" because of "honor codes" that people created for staff dueling in that game. Apparently this transferred over from one Raven game to another (to JK2). Raven made both games and thus were known by these loyal fans. The honor code followed them.

 

So I think it's not due to Star Wars itself (though it was given a star wars spin in JK2, which was completely illogical... no Jedi I know of ever bowed before a duel or whined when force powers were used mid battle, and we have numerous instances of Jedi fighting non-saber users).

 

JK1 did have a sort of honor code type thing about it. People whined when killed while they were typing just like every other online game, that was not it. The thing was, JK1 had no dueling mode whatsoever. So if anyone ever wanted to have a saber duel, they HAD to make up some house rules or ground rules. It was simply how it worked. Sure people created maps with no health pickups and no weapon pickups, but there was still no dueling mode. So some kind of honor code (when you're saber dueling, NOT for guns or anything else) would make sense.

 

I dueled people and played the game normally, so I participated. I don't recall people whining in the middle of a FFA. It was just that sometimes people would say "let's duel"or something and people would either say "sure" and do that, or they'd say "nah" and the person would eventually leave.

 

Only a very tiny minority ever played JK1 and only used the lightsaber, because the lightsaber just wasn't that powerful against guns. Sure it was a 1 hit kill most of the time, but you had to get very close. A good full force gunner would smoke a good full force saberist in an all out battle.

 

Anyway, JK2 introduced a seperate game mode for dueling and the saber challenge to protect a pair of duelists from the rest of a FFA game. But the honor code fundamentalists decided that this wasn't enough and made up more rules, tried to apply those rules to all game modes everywhere, and admin mods were created to "punish" the "lamers" (people who didn't follow those made up rules).

 

So I can see how it developed, but I really think it was the influence of the Heretic II community who were Raven Software fans that contributed to it most. And then we had them teaching a new generation about it.

 

RC will always have people about stupid things, cheats, people being cheap and using the AA or repeater. Those people need to grow up.

 

I've been kicked from BF1942 servers for owning the admin on at the time. I've been kicked from DOD servers for doing the same.

This didn't happen all the time, just on certain servers, if your in a clan and quite good it can cause alot of problems as well cause then people are constantly calling you out trying to make a name for themselves.

 

I agree that in general online games will contain sore losers. The sore losers will make any excuse as to why they didn't win. They will say you used a cheap or "unbeatable" tactic, exploit, or whatever. They will demand you not use some weapon they feel is "too powerful" or "has no counter." They will blame lag, the map, their team, anything, even resort to accusations of cheating.

 

SOME of this is caused by simple ignorance. They won't know how games work. They don't know about little known tactics or manuvers. Something they can't explain they will chalk up to "hax" or something. But much of the time it's simple poor sportsmanship.

 

The "I was typing!" thing is simply annoying. They are being selfish. They don't understand that the game doesn't stop just because they stopped playing. The game isn't just for them.

 

Sure, it's a bit annoying when you get killed when you weren't ready, but really.. who's fault was it that you weren't ready? Your own. Instead of owning up to it, the sore loser blames it on somebody else. Why should everyone stop the game they are playing and wait for whatever silly thing you're talking about?

 

Anyway, some of the nonesense in RC could be lessened if there had been bots in the game for people to practice offline and learn about how things worked, etc. Some of it could be lessened if there had been an MP training mode like UT hade or Q3 had. Not all of it, but some.

 

I figure most players are 13 year olds who played SP, then play MP, they didn't read the manual, they probably don't play online games much at all, certainly not FPS games on the internet. And if they do, they must be incredibly frustrated people, because the internet doesn't spoon feed them exactly what they want 24/7.

 

Odd 'eh. Its almost like street fighting or being in the mafia.

People will go around saying, Oh will I beat, so-an-so and then instantly expect people to be in fear of them.

 

I hear you there. Typical thing people say:

 

"YOU SUCK. Your opinion is ****. I'm in [badMofosClan]. We are the best clan ever. We have never lost a match. Remember BMF-Jim? BMF-JOJO? I'm better than they are. I beat them every time. And they beat everyone else! So I know this game, and you suck. You would never be in BMF!"

 

In most games you have hundreds or thousands of players. The chances of encountering another person in a game like this are virtally nill. I went throughout my entire JK1 career (3 1/2 years) without meeting many of the so-called "greatest clans" (by their own estimation. Even in the latter days I still regularly met people who had never heard of me or of JK.net (which I worked at since 1998).

 

Today people will visit my RC server (entitled Kurgan's Meatgrinder) and they don't know who Kurgan is. They don't know of the name Meatgrinder either (I hosted a JA server with that name for over 3 months and it was quite popular as far as Siege servers go). Recognition just doesn't happen very much.

 

Sure, most Quake players have heard of Thresh, but he had to win a sports car in a big tournament to get that recognition. He wasn't just some guy in a clan who was top rated on Big Bob's Clan-O-Rama Ladder.

 

People do have an inflated view of self in an online gaming community. They think they are super important and everyone should give deference to them. Instead, most people have never heard of you and even if they have they won't really care.

 

Sad fact is, if you suck at FPS games then you suck at FPS games.

Certain games allow for a greater degree of "stress" to the player, Quake for example with its notorious Rocket jump, or the unreal games where you can easily pick up 200armor and 199health and just go brutal on everyone.

 

I suppose. People talk about this in terms of "speed." But there's a certain snobbery here too. "Oh you play X game? HAHA, that game sucks. It takes no skill, unlike the game I play, game Y. Play a real man's game." Or "You're playing game X like one would play game Y! Stop playing game X and go play game Y! If I wanted to play way I'd go play game Y instead of game X!"

 

Instead of just playing a game and enjoying it, these folks have to try to control everything and one-up anyone else who has fun or learns how to do well. Instead of acknowledging that somebody else has done something good, they make excuses. But if they are doing well they will try to rub it in and make sure that EVERYONE knows just how good they think they are.

 

It's like the little kid who wins at checkers and dances on top of his chair going "I'm the bestest! I'm the bestest!" then when he loses he knocks over the board and says "You cheater! I don't want to play anymore."

 

Yes, I know I'm ranting along with your rant, but I do agree with you on most of your points.

 

Point I'm trying to make is this, no matter what the game, or what kind of game. Someone will always be ready to call the person on top a cheater, for some strange reason it makes them feel justified if their killed by the person, "oh well doesn't matter that I died, cause that person is a cheater". Even on "cheat" protected servers someone will always use the C word.

I've even seen it at lan tournaments.

 

Yeah, it's pretty sad. I haven't seen anyone call cheater on a tournament, but I haven't been in very many, and none recently.

 

Cheaters are the lowest rung on the online gaming ladder, they choose to use exploits and hacks to make themselves seem almost godlike in a game and usually suffer from what we grown-ups like to call "bitchy baby syndrom"

 

Yeah. But I think you'll admit that the number of ACTUAL cheaterse is probably much less than the number of ACCUSATIONS of cheating. The fact that cheaters may exist is a convenient excuse for people calling "cheater"whenever they lose.

 

As for RC we have a hard time proving they exist at all, yet people called cheater within days of the game coming out!

 

 

I can't stand cheaters, never could, never will. Counter strike and Americas Army are the worst I've seen for cheaters(and I play both)

 

Roger that. Cheaters in JK1 were pretty danged annoying. The main problem was their incredible arrogance and the fact that they were just trying to be griefers. They weren't even just trying to sneak them in to win a bit easier, they were just doing it to try to piss people off and waste their time.

 

I bet you though, that a lot of people who cry "cheater" in a game have never encountered an actual cheater. Their paranoia and excuses let it be the first thing out of their mouth when things aren't going their way.

 

There always seems to be some smacktard that wants to ruin the game for everyone and I for one, feel sorry for that person.

 

Agreed.

 

And there's my rant too, heh. Wow, I feel better now.

[Oidar]

I wonder how many script kiddies we'll see in a game like this, scripts aren't cheats but they do allow you to pull off multiple commands at the same time. I don't even know if you could consider a script an exploit.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Originally posted by Kurgan

As to the whining being specific to the SW community I say "baloney." In SWBF people whined about bots, Jedi, camping, spawn camping, and bugs.

 

I never said it was specific, I just felt it was worse then some other communities.

 

I've never been called a cheater on a Wolf:ET server. It happened a few times at BF1942 but it was once every two months. I rarely see anyone whine about "cheaters" and getting owned in BF1942.

 

 

Though we must specify that not all whining is unjustified. In many cases, game unbalances can cause whining(such as no auto-team balance and every switches team the second it starts winning) or the use of an exploit that shouldn't even exist(Helis healing and reloading on an enemy helipad to continue camping).

Those things are not cheats but some imbalances and problems with the game mechanics.