Anakin's Birth / Prophecy (SPOILER)

[lil_dude]

Originally posted by Kurgan

So how did Palpatine hide from everyone all this time? Then again we can ask how the Sith hid all this time... but most of the Sith I bet weren't Senators...

 

How did Yoda and Obi Wan hide from Palpetine and Vader? Vader didn't even know Obi Wan was still alive untill he arived on the Death Star. Yoda, Obi Wan, Palpetine and even Qui-Gon were all very intune with the force and would be able to hide themselves from weaker minds or even cloud evenly matched minds from sencing them.

 

At the end of ROTS Yoda tells Obi Wan that Qui-Gon will seek him out on Tatooine and train him, I assume this means complete his understanding of the force thus making him as intune with the force as Yoda and Qui-Gon, which is why Obi Wan can sence the distruction of Alderan. Then on the Death Star in ANH Obi Wan tells Vader that he has become much more powerful since the last time they met and thate he has far exceeded his powers, but Obi Wan knew it wasn't his destiny to defeat Vader and that he couldn't guide Luke as well if he was not one with the force, so he allows Vader to strike him down infront of Luke to help feed some of Luke's rage and make him more of a balanced Jedi then what they once were. Luke never becomes as strong as other Jedi by ROTJ but that's because his training was never fully completed, but Obi Wan and Yoda would always be there to guide him.

 

As for Anakin being created by the Sith I think it is a reasonable assumtion to make but there is no real proof of it, either way it's interesting to read and theorize about this kind of stuff.

[Lord Bane]

I believe that.... George Lucas is a Movie Director even if he did create Star Wars, at that time he was just a early to mid-20's dude trying to make films. I believe that the Force itself is of a basic origin, no dark or light sides. It is referred to the Force-users as Jedi but those who use the force for evil ways would be called the Sith. Depending of the corruption of the person, many may believe that in general the peraon may be Jedi or Sith. But say the person may have mixed thoughts on the sitiation will mostly likely accept the decision of acting what he is considered to do. But back to Anakins birth. Anakin was said to have been born of the Force. Some say Plagius commanded the Force to create him and others say it was the will of the Force. I believe in ages long ago, when the first Jedi and Sith appeared in the galaxy, that a pact was made. Seeing that all of the current Force Users were already influenced by the Jedi or Sith, bot laid a hand in the creation of Anakin to balance the Force because both knew the undyeing conflict would result in the utter destruction of the Force itself. What if the JEdi and Sith commanded the Force to create a super-being capable of bring the Force into balance, this I believe. The Force would be considered a God if it was a being but then again, it is considered to have a Dark and light side. I leave it for debate....

[Kurgan]

Well I guess we're left to believe that "masking your presence from other Force users" is a simple trick that any half-way decent Jedi can learn. Luke learned it, Yoda learned it, Obi-Wan learned it, etc.

 

I was meaning if in order to hide you had to "dampen out the powers of those around you" which is how I interpret the "shroud of the Dark Side" thing going from AOTC-ROTS, then it wouldn't quite make sense. Yoda and Obi-Wan would have had to be using the Force to cloud Vader/Palpatine's force abilities, and wouldn't they notice? After all Palpy is the one who's been pulling this trick on everybody for a decade or two, so he'd be one to know! And Luke, was he dampening out Vader or Palpy's powers when he hid from them? In fact, he hid from Vader, but not Palpatine ("I have felt him Master." "Strange that I have not." etc).

 

So I'm guessing whatever power lets you hide from other Force users is seperate from whatever power lets you "shroud" (or even drain) the Force abilities of those around you (something apparently only Palpatine has achieved). Then again I also wonder if the "shroud of the Dark Side" thing continued to work during the classic trilogy according to Lucas's idea. Sure perhaps it was a massive strain on Palpatine's power, and he figured he wouldn't need it anymore if he was firmly on the throne and all the Jedi were thought to be wiped out... Does the shroud only limit the power of "lightside" users? Or did it also limit the power of other Sith? So many questions... I wonder if Lucas will even attempt to answer any of them come November. But I'll be curious to find out!

[Kurgan]

I believe that.... George Lucas is a Movie Director even if he did create Star Wars, at that time he was just a early to mid-20's dude trying to make films. I believe that the Force itself is of a basic origin, no dark or light sides. It is referred to the Force-users as Jedi but those who use the force for evil ways would be called the Sith. Depending of the corruption of the person, many may believe that in general the peraon may be Jedi or Sith. But say the person may have mixed thoughts on the sitiation will mostly likely accept the decision of acting what he is considered to do. But back to Anakins birth. Anakin was said to have been born of the Force. Some say Plagius commanded the Force to create him and others say it was the will of the Force. I believe in ages long ago, when the first Jedi and Sith appeared in the galaxy, that a pact was made. Seeing that all of the current Force Users were already influenced by the Jedi or Sith, bot laid a hand in the creation of Anakin to balance the Force because both knew the undyeing conflict would result in the utter destruction of the Force itself. What if the JEdi and Sith commanded the Force to create a super-being capable of bring the Force into balance, this I believe. The Force would be considered a God if it was a being but then again, it is considered to have a Dark and light side. I leave it for debate....

 

In the original script drafts they talked about "The Force" and then what the Black Knights (Or Dark Knights) of the Sith used was called "para-Force". It was some kind of corruption. In the movies the word "Sith" is never mentioned (until TPM; though the term is applied to Darth Vader in the original SW novel from 1976). It's just "Jedi" and then "not Jedi." Vader is a former Jedi. We have no background for the Emperor, and until ESB we don't have any idea he had force powers (the novel makes no reference to that, in fact it makes it sound like he was just a corrupt politician, who may not even control the whole Empire anymore, due to manipulation by bureacrats and interests... though people explain this away by saying that particular passage was from the point of view of somebody who didn't witness the events of ROTJ). In the movies there is "the Force" and then "the Dark Side of the Force." Again, as if the Dark Side is an abberation, a corruption. In the movies there are no "force users" who are not either a Jedi or a Sith (well except Leia I guess, but we're given the impression that Luke will train her as a Jedi and in time she'll learn to "use it has [Luke] has").

 

The EU novels, starting with Heir to the Empire in the early 1990's coined the term "Dark Jedi" to refer to any Dark Side user pretty much. Authors weren't allowed to mess with the history of the Sith to a point, though they did eventually by making them red skinned aliens conquered by Dark Jedi thousands of years ago, etc. etc. Clearly the history of the Sith wasn't fleshed out at that time and it was changed when TPM came down the wire (the novel goes into great detail, setting new precedents for things about them). So then we got the rule of two, the Darth being a title thing, etc (up to that point we all thought it was a personal name.. notice how Ben refers to Vader as "Darth" multiple times in ANH).

 

In the movies there is no mention of a "Light Side" (which comes from the EU's dualism motiph of the Force and especially the video games in order to give a name to what you are as a non-Dark Sider). In ROTJ Luke says he hopes he can bring Vader back "to the good side." That's it! Even in the prequels we get no mention of the Light Side.

 

So interesting as it may be, the ideas that have started to creep in to fans or even EU writers' thinking like that the Force is the Yin/Yang and balancing means an equal number of Light Side & Dark Side users (or "uninhibited Jedi" who use both sides of the Force equally) and the idea that.

 

According to OT, the Force is something natural, a "life force" or whatnot. But then in the prequels it is given attributes that suggest a deity of sorts. Lucas intended the Force as a metaphor for faith, spirituality, etc. so the genericness makes a bit of sense that way. In-universe terms though I don't know. If the Force really has a plan, it's not fully known to those who practice the Force, I guess much as in theism the Will of God is not fully known to even the most ardhent believers. Even Prophets, favored with special revelation only get a glimpse of the Divine Plan.

 

Then again the Sith claim that their view of the Force is actually the correct one ("He will show you the true nature of the Force") but from an out-of-universe point of view, the Dark Side is a corruption, not the thing itself. I'm going out on a limb here, but the way I see it, Life sustains the Force (which came first? who knows. perhaps "God" created the Force in the beginning or they were created simultaneously) but doing evil creates the Dark Side. By "evil" we're talking passions lead to the inflicting harm such as hatred, etc. you've heard the list before. Of course this raises the question of how the Jedi can be just fierce warriors, killing with seeming impunity, without falling to the Darkside, but oh well, it's not a perfect theory.