BattleDog Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 As I side before the Force has two aspects, the Living Force and the Unifying Force. The Living Force is the web of the Force created by all living things, the heartbeat of the universe, if you will. A Jedi uses the Living Force as a tool, to move rocks, influence people's minds etc. Its also the only power the Sith have access to, the power the use to foster the dark side within themselves. The Unifying Force is like the soul of the universe, the past the future, destiny. When a Jedi like Yoda speaks of the will of the Force this is what he is talking about. The Unifying Force is what binds all things together in the Living Force. Its a very difficult concept. Basically the Living Force is the power, as it were, a Jedi or Sith has direct access to becuase the Living Force is within them. However since the Unifying Force guides the Living Force by opening yourself to one you open yourself to the other, which is what guides you. So you might be using a very small part of the Force but a much bigger part is using you. Now you see why the Sith are a corruption. They twist the Living Force into something else and so cut themselves off to the greater part of the Unifying Force. For those who are wondering I'm not making this up, its all in EPI, II & V, well mostly there with bits elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 i agree, but i challenge the theory of the capability of the Sith. what if he learns to embrace the Unifying force, from his point of veiw and passion to attain both understanding and power on both sides of the force? yes, if he did attain the Unifying force, he would still be a Jedi, we talked about this before, but this doesnt mean it isnt possible for anyone who truely understands all aspects of the force, in its intirety. edit: sunday, january 15th 2006 8:03pm: i find spiritual conflict on trying to come to the balance between the light and dark side of the force. i think i am going to re-direct my views and capability to embrace that balance, for the good...the physical pain of Darth Sion is killing me, his example of what he would go through for power, i can feel it destroying me. tell me more on how i can attain balance. and the true veiws on the Sith disturb me, like i am torn inside, between crossing the line or standing still. all i wanted to accomplish was True balance between the Jedi and the Sith. no more wars, no more destruction, peace and knowledge of the force. i want power! tell me more. seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Well, on the Living Force vs. Unifying Force Argument... I don't think the Sith is cutting themselves from the unifying force though, for one the force is not going thru them equally well (unlike YV). I think the Force itself is a neutral entity, so to "balance" the views of the Jedis there must be the dark aspact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 the aspect of the dark side is on the individuals influence in how he thinks, why he thinks this way, yet, consuming him, and controlling him, he continues on this path for his own reason. the force represents balance and i can see the Sith throwing it off balance because their teachings are opposit of the ways of the force; but does this mean his aspect towards it in Truth of what it really is, effect him by not coming to the conclusion that it is he who is off balance while seeking this ultimate power? or maybe he just didnt think on it because he was so consumed; this doesnt mean that he does not have the capability to control himself and find the Truth in the influence of the True force, not, his point of veiw on the force. seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarNProgress Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Sorry to go on subject off the subject, but I'm really shocked you guys quoted Kreia, but apparently didn't listen. After saying he was like staring into the Heart of the Force, she then said that Revan listened to himself, rather than teaching or code. It was not light, or dark, or even the Force. It was always Revan. Therefore, if you're going to base off of her, you can't even classify Revan. Revan is Revan. ... also ... Basically the Living Force is the power, as it were, a Jedi or Sith has direct access to becuase the Living Force is within them. However since the Unifying Force guides the Living Force by opening yourself to one you open yourself to the other, which is what guides you. So you might be using a very small part of the Force but a much bigger part is using you. If anyone really and truly understood this, they definately deserve a cookie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 amen. wheres my cookie? lol. this is what i'm trying to accomplish, my entire basis in theory. funny thing is, i didnt even knew it already existed. seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master omega Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 You seam to be forgoting that it has been stated in kotor2 that even when revan became a sith lord he tryed to keep the repulic strong e.g he left ordoron alone He mearly tryed to renforce the republic strenght because off the oncome threat. So do you realy think he became a sith. His only motovation durring the civil war was to strength the republic. And according to carth thats why he left at the start of kotor 2 and told carth to keep the repblic stong till he came back were he was going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 interesting. also, i have to Master Knights of the Old Republic 1, in order to understand Knights of the Old Republic 2. yeah because its for PC and my brand new dell only has 247RAM, when the game requires 256RAM, i'm stuck dreaming. i played most of the beginning of the game, got to to lower level city, but then it started freezing, so i uninstalled it and waited patiently to upgrade the RAM. ask my boss why he's being an ass....if i only worked more then 5 days a month. granted, those 5 days i make awesome money, but within a month, that isnt even a normal paycheck from week to week. i hate this ****in town. back on subject: we went through this before, but does anyone know where Revan went? seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 "Revan is not available right now, please leave a message after the Beep..." Yes, Revan is not available, he is out in Unknown Space fighting against some unknown horror. Who knows what those are? Rainbow colored(purple?) Dinosaurs? Ugly people in tentacle armor? Knife wielding Dark Elves? angry evil Dwarfs? Cockroach Hives with collective minds? Anything who think ny of the above exist must be out of their minds. :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 yeah well, someone has to know if he returns to Knights of the Old Republic 3. i cant push that on us, we arent the designers of the game, ****, i wish i was. 1 1/2 year, i will be on my way...... seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Sorry to go on subject off the subject, but I'm really shocked you guys quoted Kreia, but apparently didn't listen. After saying he was like staring into the Heart of the Force, she then said that Revan listened to himself, rather than teaching or code. It was not light, or dark, or even the Force. It was always Revan. Therefore, if you're going to base off of her, you can't even classify Revan. Revan is Revan. ... also ... Basically the Living Force is the power, as it were, a Jedi or Sith has direct access to becuase the Living Force is within them. However since the Unifying Force guides the Living Force by opening yourself to one you open yourself to the other, which is what guides you. So you might be using a very small part of the Force but a much bigger part is using you. If anyone really and truly understood this, they definately deserve a cookie! Okay, it was late let me brake it down. There are two sections of the Force, the Living and the Unifying Force. Now the Living Force is what is in all living things, i.e. Living things generate the Living Force. So the Living Force is within everything and when a Jedi lifts a rock or jumps up in the air they're using the Living Force. Also, regards healing I believe that has to do with affecting the Living Force in the patient. The Unifying Force is what binds the galaxey together, the past the future, destiny and balance. This is the higher part of the Force that is supposed to guide a Jedi's actions. The Living Force is just the here and now. So while a Jedi uses the Living Force they are open to the Unifying Force as well. Sith corrupt the Living Force within themselves and as a result do not become One with the Force, Lucas has said this and the EU can go to Hell unfortunately. The Sith do have some access to the Unifying Force but as they aren't using the Living Force properly their connection to the Unifying Force gets corrupted, which is why Palpy sees what he wants to see when he looks into the future I suppose. Does that now make sense? On to Revan: Kreia says Revan tried to keep the Republic strong, i.e. preserve stategic planets. Well by then he had fallen and was on the usual Sith acid trip, otherwise he should have realised that the best way to keep the Republic strong was to go to the Council and tell them what he found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 i think i agree, seeing it from a Jedi's point of veiw. and because i think i understand the nature in the impulse of emotion, i can see how the Sith can probably never be balanced, unless they affiliate themselves with the True Ways of the Force and its teachings. who truely understands the force? "Only Sith deal with absolutes." -Obi-Wan Kenobi i see this and understand this. they try to bend the force to themselves, thinking it is in their power to be in control of how they "use" it for "their power". i can also see how it "consumes" them, because when their mindset is manily on "themselves" and their "knowledge" {understanding} on what they think they need to do to get power, it conflicts the True Nature of the Force that they dont understand, or, want to understand; and creates a different state of mind that they embraced; by being introduced to the dark side of the force and its teachings. its absolute that the Sith deal with only themselves, their goals and their conquest. the Jedi step in for what they believe and understand, and War starts throughout the galaxy; because they have two total different understanding on the Force. do the Jedi hate the Sith if they live by their code, which promotes peace and balance; not hate? There is no emotion; there is peace. There is no ignorance; there is knowledge. There is no passion; there is serenity. There is no chaos; there is harmony. There is no death; there is the Force. seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarNProgress Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I really don't see how anyone can figure the Jedi to be balanced. There is balance in equal inbalances, but no one side can be right. Let me put forth why I see the Jedi to be so superficial and fruity: It is the human nature to love and show emotion. Without emotion, you are no more than a robot programmed by the Jedi code. Someone explain to me how showing emotions affects how evil or good you are? If you ask me, from the most part, showing emotions usually puts you more to good, whereas the lack of puts you into cold and calculating. Who EVER said that the Jedi have no passion? That's ****, right there, because they have a passion for peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 i agree. but listen to what anakin said: "Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden. Compassion, which I would define as... unconditional love... is essential to a Jedi's life. So, you might say that we are encouraged to love." —Anakin Skywalker who said that the Jedi cant be passionate about what they do? i think its when they are consumed by their passion, their emotions, and the embrace of the power in that, they learn and want more and stray away from the teachings of the Jedi, not, the code; because they use their emotions more then letting the force use them, and be in balance, they lost an understanding of control. "Attachment leads to jealousy. The shadow of greed, that is." Master Yoda arent the Sith persistant in their gain for power? so persistant that it can be called "greed" when greed can be an imbalance? “Use your feelings, Obi-Wan, and find him, you will.” Master Yoda Jedi and Sith use their emotions in almost everything they do, its just the Jedi are trained to "use" them; not be used by them. and by doing this, they have embraced their nature in the force, just the same as the Sith who embraced their nature in the force; as do the Sith "use" their emotions. "good is a point of veiw, anakin. the Sith and the Jedi are similar in almost every way, including their quest for greater power." Chancellor Palpetine/Darth Sidious power for what? what do the Jedi consider power? what do the Sith consider power? "You don't need guidance, Anakin. In time, you will learn to trust your feelings. Then, you will be invincible. I have said it many times, you are the most gifted Jedi I have ever met." Chancellor Palpetine/Darth Sidious this is encouraged by a Sith Lord, and you can tell what he is getting at when he says, "in time, you will learn to trust your feelings." how does someone have passion? how does someone accomplish their goals from that passion? and what does that person do to use his passion? does he let it control him? to know all this we need to get into both concepts of the force; the light side, and the dark side, their ways of thinking, their actions, their thoughts, their purpose (code), their knowledge and their experience. "Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.” Master Yoda why was anakin consumed by the dark side of the force? because he gave into it without control. doesnt mean he didnt know control, but this means he lost it for his own selfish reasons to gain more power, like most other Sith before him. and just because he converted to the dark side, doesnt mean he didnt have a choice not to. he crossed the line, he walked the path, and he became who he was until he died, Darth Vader. "If you are to truly understand then you will need the contrast, not adherance to a single ideal" Darth Traya seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I really don't see how anyone can figure the Jedi to be balanced. There is balance in equal inbalances, but no one side can be right. Let me put forth why I see the Jedi to be so superficial and fruity: It is the human nature to love and show emotion. Without emotion, you are no more than a robot programmed by the Jedi code. Someone explain to me how showing emotions affects how evil or good you are? If you ask me, from the most part, showing emotions usually puts you more to good, whereas the lack of puts you into cold and calculating. Who EVER said that the Jedi have no passion? That's ****, right there, because they have a passion for peace. I don't believe I said the Jedi don't have emotion, they just don't let it rule them. As to balance. As I said I don't see good and evil as two equel and opposite things because I don't think of "good" in terms of unconditional love and happiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 do the Jedi fight with a smile on their faces? seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarNProgress Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 why was anakin consumed by the dark side of the force? because he gave into it without control. doesnt mean he didnt know control, but this means he lost it for his own selfish reasons to gain more power, like most other Sith before him. and just because he converted to the dark side, doesnt mean he didnt have a choice not to. he crossed the line, he walked the path, and he became who he was until he died, Darth Vader. Ah, but that's where you're wrong. Plain and simple, he went insane. He didn't care about saving people, after all, where was his lover and unborn son's protector? Sure, it seems selfish, but all he did was put forth his best foot and made it the only way he could've done: he destroyed his former self and blocked off everything he knew. Sad part is, his former self died with Padme(?), and sure that the Jedi Order was to blame, ofcourse he's going to want power. Why? Well, eradication of them ofcourse! However, how in the *BLAM!* did we ever get on to the subject of Anakin..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BattleDog Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Yup, I would add that he walked the dark path to begin with because he believed he needed to save his wife. Which makes it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 Anakin was the prime example of EMOTION and has been probably his entire life. one of a many facts in the ways of the Sith. seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 So to be a perfect Jedi you have to be like R2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitarNProgress Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 R2? But uh, in my opinion, there's no such thing as a perfect Jedi. There may be the "best" Jedi, but none perfect . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaded6 Posted January 19, 2006 Author Share Posted January 19, 2006 come to a greater understanding of the force and you might just be perfect..... seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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