[MOD] EAW: Open Conflict

[Tal Odo-ki]

Welcome back! Missed ya.

 

Well I expect the AT-STs to be more powerful than the hover-tanks which are best suited for a hit and run tactic. But you're right about the spawns... I'll probably reduce the numbers of AT-STs per squad to three too.

Please don't change the squad size. The Empire normally deploys them in fours. The AT-STs having the max firepower ability rather than barrage is what's making them so powerful. If you want to really fix the AT-STs, revert them back to their original special ability. After that, then fine-tune them if necessary.

 

The Acclamator would need some rebalancing if I upgrade its proton torpedoes and at the same time replace its relatively small missiles with those massive damage missiles.

That's fine. The idea is that capital ships (cruisers and destroyers) carry big missiles and anything else carries small ones. If you want starfighters to have more "punch", perhaps you can add a new (cloned) missile/torp type just for them that's able to bypass shields? (Not because the missiles can, but because the starfighter itself is getting "under" the shield.) ALL other missiles/torps should not bypass shields. That's, IMO, a HUGE problem with the game as it currently stands. EAW proton torps ignore shields and that's just not right (or canon).

[Adonnay]

About the AT-STs. Okay, so no squad size change... but I don't think I will revert back to the barrage ability... it was so odd that firing aimlessly at a certain area suddenly makes more damage in a shorter time than precice aimed shots. I will just tone it down and make modifiy the reuse timer. I will also reduce the spawn of the facilities.

 

I didn't worry about the fighters not beeing powerful enough (the bomber torpedoes still penetrate the shields, but not the X-Wing ones), but I worry about the Acclamator becoming too powerful. It's the only ship with torpedoes and rockets... well I'll have to play around with the missiles still.

[Tal Odo-ki]

Well, while you're looking at the various missiles please please remove the ability for the non-fighter missiles (Acclamator, Venator, starbase, pirate frigates) to bypass shields. It's very non-canon. BTW, the Venator should carry the exact same number of concussion missile tubes as the Acclamator (if it doesn't already).

[mandead]

Welcome back Adonnay

 

Been messing about with the MasterTextFile, adding strings for added stuff (I have seperate descriptions for the two Mon Cal classes, as well as the TIE Avenger and Moff Tarkin's Accuser, etc., etc.) - will send you a copy later.

[Adonnay]

Great... thanks!

[Tal Odo-ki]

BTW, for the sake of balance bear in mind that a Broadside cruiser has TEN times as many missile tubes as either the Acclamator or the Venator. I don't know if that degree of firepower is properly represented in the game. OTOH, an ISD has 5 times as many turbolasers as a Nebulon-B (or about double that of the Victory ISD), and I don't think that's properly modelled in the game either. The big ships in EAW (for both sides) seem to be underpowered in terms of how many weapons they mount.

[arkodeon]

BTW, for the sake of balance bear in mind that a Broadside cruiser has TEN times as many missile tubes as either the Acclamator or the Venator. I don't know if that degree of firepower is properly represented in the game. OTOH, an ISD has 5 times as many turbolasers as a Nebulon-B (or about double that of the Victory ISD), and I don't think that's properly modelled in the game either. The big ships in EAW (for both sides) seem to be underpowered in terms of how many weapons they mount.

 

Of course, you must realize that it's impossible to add 5 times more weapons, then balancing becomes an issue, and they becoming nearly invincible. ):

[Tal Odo-ki]

The proper counter to an ISD is a Mon Cal cruiser. I read a story (not a game AAR) about 2 Victory SDs defeating an entire pirate armada of 140 corvettes and converted freighters. A single ISD is supposed to be able to easily handle a typical Rebel fleet composed of a few frigates and a bunch of corvettes.

 

Vastly increasing the firepower of SDs (and equivalent vessels) can be balanced by making them very expensive (as they are in canon), much slower to build, and use a lot more cap points.

[mandead]

I agree with the points raised here. Afterall, we are going for both canon and realism

[Tal Odo-ki]

Here are a few comparative credit values of some of the ships in the roleplaying game:

 

ISD*: 145,670,000 (*price for the ISD II, I don't have a price for the ISD I)

Mon Cal**: 131,800,000 (**price for MC90, I don't have a price for the MC80)

VSD II: 50,000,000 (the version in EAW)

Interdictor: 52,240,000

Acclamator: 29,000,000

Nebulon-B: 9,000,000

Corellian Gunship: 4,800,000

Corellian Corvette: 3,500,000

Marauder: 2,398,000 (original version, EAW's missile version would be much more expensive)

 

Note that you can "buy" over 5.5 Nebulons for the cost of a VSD, and about 3 VSDs for the cost of just one ISD. Puts things into some perspective, I hope.

[HomoUniversalis]

Interesting thoughts. Regarding the planets, adding them should be no problem. The amount of buildspaces on the ground and in space can be easily set, along with the planet's location, it's texture, and the map it references to. You can even set it to be non-accesible (like Bespin).

 

Trade routes should be possible if you select one core planet for all the trade routs to go to, and then have them spread from there. In essence, have a trade route go from, say Manaan to Coruscant, and Coruscant having trade routs with the surrounding planets, and Manaan with the surrounding planets. The amount of income received from the traderouts (which is essentially a modifier) can also be defined.

 

About the AT-STs. Okay, so no squad size change... but I don't think I will revert back to the barrage ability... it was so odd that firing aimlessly at a certain area suddenly makes more damage in a shorter time than precice aimed shots. I will just tone it down and make modifiy the reuse timer. I will also reduce the spawn of the facilities.

 

Perhaps remove the barrage ability alltogether and give them the ability to fire a rocket? After all, they are supposed to have a blaster on the left side, and a rocket launcher on the right for close unit combat, and the lower blasters on the side for long range (2km) anti-vehicle combat.

 

I don't think they are as much over-powered as the damage of the RPG units is under-powered. I set their health to one-tenth, which makes them butter for the ATST's, but with a modified RPG, meaning one-hit one-kill, the game becomes more balanced and more realistic. Aside from that, if we are able to make them stealthy, they could wait for a couple of ATST's to pass by, and destroy them utterly.

 

It will give users a potential to use different tactics than just swarming them, in which case, the ATST's SHOULD have an advantage.

 

but because the starfighter itself is getting "under" the shield.

 

If I remember correctly, they can't. Shields 'repel' fighters, like an invisible wall, meaning they blow up. Much the same for missiles, the way I understand it.

[Tal Odo-ki]

There are actually two different types of shields in Star Wars. The energy shields that deflect lasers are permeable to projectiles. The other type, so-called "particle shields", are for repelling meteoroids and other kinetic impactors. Energy shields create a form-fitting "bubble" a very short distance away from the ship, while particle shields are more like a 'skin" that closely hugs the ship's surface. It's possible for a skilled pilot to "get under" an energy shield while flying very close to a capital ship.

 

You may recall that Red Squadron in Ep4 passed through the DS1's energy shield (which was projected a fair distance from the DS itself) on their way to the attack. Note that the land-based anti-energy shields in EAW are also permeable to moving objects. They are the same type of shields that are found on starships. If an airspeeder on the ground can fly through them, then a starfighter flying close to a capital ship can do it too (with skill and luck).

[HomoUniversalis]

Hmm.. I guess so. So with all those wise engineers they have building starships, not a single one was able to project the energyshield just above the hull? I don't know how Vader keeps up with them

 

Anyshoe, I think we would have to set the range of the missiles to be close to the capital ship, so you'll have tie fighters protecting the capital ships in case some fighters come to ruin your day.

 

What do you think about my idea on the AT-ST's?

[Adonnay]

Oh well... there's sure alot to do. I have to make a proirity list first or I'll never get done with it, so don't expect the next update too soon

 

edit: In addition to that I could use a few testers... it takes alot of time to implement something AND test it thoroughly (balance issues mostly like prices, damage tables and such).

[Tal Odo-ki]

Oh well... there's sure alot to do. I have to make a proirity list first or I'll never get done with it, so don't expect the next update too soon

Please fix missiles first. Should be the easiest of the changes to do. Next I'd think would be the AT-STs. Then everything else.

[Adonnay]

Okay folks... I put a testversion up.

 

Major changes:

- some ship costs drastically changed (i.e. ISD 24000) - according to data provided by Tal

- capital ship and station shields are now much more efficient

- increased firepower of the ISD and the VSD - Tal again

- replaced all station and starship fired missiles with the new assault missiles. High payload but slow and with a low maneuverability

- added two new satellite options: assault missile and turbolaser defense satellite against slow moving targets, vulnerable to fighters.

- changed the population cap for space battles to 100

- changed the population value for almost all vessels to fit the new pop cap (i.e. TIE fighers beeing the lowest with 1, ISDs the highest (non-hero) with 25)

- doubled the damage done by PLEX Soldiers against AT-STs - tell me how they do now HomoUniversalis

- added a PLEX soldier to every rebel soldier squad (untested)

- lowered all garrison respawns (no vehicle spawn is unlimited anymore, troops still are) - as per request of Hammer22

- Smugglers taken off the imperial payrolls (they can't build cantinas anymore). Bounty Hunters are of course still in. - based on HolisticGod's idea

- raised the cap on raid groups from 3 to 8 (yet to be tested, might be too much, especially for smaller planets) - also HolisitcGod's point

 

Thanks for all your contributions, be it ideas, data or just loudly spoken thoughts Many of these changes are based on these.

 

-> Version .006c <-

 

Almost forgot: There's a master textfile included (for the new satellites to be able to tell them apart since they use the same icon). So BACKUP YOUR OLD ONE before you extract!

[Tal Odo-ki]

Okay folks... I put a testversion up.

Thanks!

 

replaced all station and starship fired missiles with the new assault missiles. High payload but slow and with a low maneuverability

Do these new missiles no longer bypass shields? (I hope.) Haven't tested them yet, but I will as soon as I finish this post.

 

There's a master textfile included (for the new satellites to be able to tell them apart since they use the same icon).

I've edited your textfile and corrected a few strings (Victory Star Destroyer, Venator-class Star Destroyer, etc. I'd like to send it to you. Can you PM or email me your email address?

 

I have more data for you:

 

Tartan tooltip says "armed with 4 laser cannons". Corellian Corvette tooltip says "armed with 8 laser cannons". The Tartan actually has 20 lasers, but their overall firepower is equal to the Corellian Corvette's actual number of 6 double turbolasers and 4 (anti-fighter) laser cannons. You may need to adjust the Tartan's and Corellian Corvette's specs and/or tooltips.

 

The Corellian Gunship tooltip says "armed with 2 laser cannons and 4 concussion missile launchers". The actual vessel has 8 double turbolasers instead of just 2. It also has 6 quad lasers for point defense. Each quadlaser is equal in firepower to one of the Corellian Corvette's double turbolasers, while each of the Gunship's double turbolasers have double the firepower of one of the Corvette's double turbolasers.

 

I think the tooltips and the stats for each of the following may also need to be changed:

• Interdictor has 20 light turbo quadlasers (each equivalent to one of the double turbolasers on the Corellian Gunship).
  
• Nebulon-B has 12 turbolasers (each equivalent to one of the double turbolasers on the Corellian Gunship), 12 (anti-fighter) laser cannons (each one-fifth the power of the turbolasers), and 2 tractor beams.
  
• Acclamator has 12 turbo quadlasers (each has 50% more firepower than those on the Interdictor), and 24 point laser cannons (similar to those on the Nebulon-B), plus 4 assault concussion missile tubes.
  
• Mon Cal MC80 has 48 turbolasers (equivalent to those on the Interdictor), 20 ion cannon, and 6 tractor beams.
  
• ISD has 60 turbolasers (each 25% more powerful than those on the Interdictor), 40 point laser cannons (similar to those on the Nebulon), 60 ion cannon, and 10 tractor beams.
  
• Victory II has 20 turbolasers (each has 75% more firepower than those on the Interdictor), 20 heavy turbolasers (each equal to those on the Interdictor), 10 ion cannon, and 10 tractor beams.
  
• If you want to model the Victory I design, it has 10 light turbo quadlasers each equal to the turbolasers on an Interdictor), 20 heavy double turbolasers (each has the same firepower as one of the light turbo quadlasers), 20 assault concussion missile tubes, and 10 tractor beams.
  
• The Broadside missile cruiser has 40 assault concussion missile tubes and 2 turbolasers (don't know how powerful they are).
  
• The Alliance Assault Frigate (Mark II) has 15 laser cannons (each has half the firepower of those on the Interdictor), 20 quad laser cannons (equivalent to those on the Interdictor), and 15 turbolasers (equal to those on the VSD II, ie: 75% more powerful than those on the Interdictor).
  
• The Venator has 8 heavy turbolasers (each has double the firepower of those on the Interdictor), 2 medium dual turbolasers (each has 50% more firepower than those on the Interdictor), 52 (anti-fighter) laser cannons (similar to those on the Nebulon), 4 proton torpedo launchers, and 6 tractor beams.

Please note how I relate the strengths of the various guns to those on the Interdictor (and Nebulon), which in turn are compared to the Corellian Gunship, which in turn are compared to the Corellian Corvette. That should allow you to properly scale all ships to each other.

[Adonnay]

For the textfile... I think mandead already has one which has been edited quite alot, I just haven't been able to get in contact with him. You might want to talk to him about adjusting some specs/names, or you both send me your files and I merge them (somehow)

 

As for the missiles, yes... no missile penetrates the shields anymore but the Bomber's torpedoes.

 

Thanks for the numbers again, you're a real well of information

I'll try to change the ships accordingly.

 

Perhaps you can do me a favor... how many different turbolasers are there, so I can model every type of Turbolaser (and large/medium lasers too), put em on the ships and adjust their firepower according to the number of hardpoints by setting their rate of fire. Best would be the dice charts. Those should be convertable quite easily.

[Tal Odo-ki]

Thanks for the numbers again, you're a real well of information

Thanks. I've been gamesmastering SWRPG for almost two decades, and in that time I've amassed a considerable collection of books. I'm also good at finding anything on the Web that I don't have in one of my books.

 

Perhaps you can do me a favor... how many different turbolasers are there, so I can model every type of Turbolaser (and large/medium lasers too), put em on the ships and adjust their firepower according to the number of hardpoints by setting their rate of fire. Best would be the dice charts. Those should be convertable quite easily.

 

• A-wing: double-linked laser cannon (5d10x2).
  
• X-wing: quad-linked laser cannon (6d10x2), 2 proton torpedo launchers (9d10x2).
  
• Y-wing: double-linked laser cannon (5d10x2), 2 proton torpedo launchers (9d10x2), 2 linked light ion cannon (4d10x2).
  
• Z-95: triple blaster (3d10x2), concussion missile launcher (7d10x2)
  
• TIE: double-linked laser cannon (5d10x2)
  
• TIE bomber: double-linked point laser cannon (3d10x2), concussion missile launcher (9d10x2)
  
• TIE scout: laser cannon (4d10x2)
  
• Millenium Falcon: 2 quad laser cannon (6d10x2), dual-linked concussion missile launchers (9d10x2).
  
• Slave I: double-linked blaster cannon (5d10x2), concussion missile launcher (8d10x2), ion cannon (5d10x2), tractor beam, seismic mine layer.
  
• Tartan: 20 laser cannons (4d10x2).
  
• Corellian Corvette:6 double turbolasers (5d10x2) [3 front, 1 left, 1 right, 1 rear], 4 laser cannons (4d10x2) [2 left, 2 right].
  
• Corellian Gunship: 8 double turbolasers (4d10x5) [2 front, 3 left, 3 right], 6 quad lasers (5d10x2) [3 left, 3 right].
  
• Marauder Corvette: 8 heavy double turbolasers (4d10x5) [2 each arc], 3 tractor beam [2 front, 1 rear]. (note this is the canon version, not the game's version)
  
• Interdictor: 20 light turbo quadlasers (4d10x5) [10 front, 5 left, 5 right].
  
• Nebulon-B: 12 turbolasers (4d10x5) [6 front, 3 left, 3 right], 12 laser cannons (2d10x2) [6 front, 2 left, 2 right, 2 rear], and 2 tractor beams [both front].
  
• Acclamator: 12 turbo quadlasers (6d10x5) [6 front/left, 6 front/right], and 24 point laser cannons (2d10x2) [8 front, 8 left, 8 right], plus 4 assault concussion missile tubes (9d10x5) [all front].
  
• Mon Cal MC80: 48 turbolasers (4d10x5) [12 each arc], 20 ion cannon (5d10x2) [8 front, 4 left, 4 right, 4 rear], and 6 tractor beams [4 front, 1 left, 1 right].
  
• ISD I: 60 turbolasers (5d10x5) [20 front, 20 left, 20 right], 40 point laser cannons (2d10x2) [10 front, 15 left, 15 right], 60 ion cannon (5d10x2) [24 front, 18 left, 18 right], and 10 tractor beams [6 front, 2 left, 2 right].
  
• Victory II: 20 turbolasers (7d10x5) [10 front, 5 left, 5 right], 20 heavy turbolasers (4d10x5) [10 front, 5 left, 5 right], 10 heavy ion cannon (7d10x2) [2 front, 3 left, 3 right, 2 rear], and 10 tractor beams [6 front, 2 left, 2 right].
  
• Victory I: 10 light turbo quadlasers (4d10x5) [5 left, 5 right], 20 heavy double turbolasers (4d10x5) [10 front, 5 left, 5 right], 20 assault concussion missile tubes (11d10x5) [5 each arc], and 10 tractor beams [6 front, 2 left, 2 right].
  
• Broadside missile cruiser: 40 assault concussion missile tubes (9d10x5), 2 turbolasers (7d10x5).
  
• Alliance Assault Frigate (Mark II): 15 laser cannons (2d10x5) [5 front, 5 left, 5 right], 20 quad laser cannons (4d10x5) [8 front, 6 left, 6 right], and 15 turbolasers (7d10x5) [5 front, 5 left, 5 right].
  
• Venator: 8 heavy double turbolasers (8d10x5) [4 front/left, 4 front/right], 2 medium dual turbolasers (6d10x5) [1 front/left, 1 front/right], 26 dual laser cannons (3d10x2) [12 front, 6 left, 6 right, 2 rear], 4 proton torpedo launchers (9d10x2) [all front], and 6 tractor beams [4 front, 1 left, 1 right].

Key: 4d10x5 means 4d10 and multiply the result by 5. The extra gun tubes of double and quad mounts are already factored into the damage numbers given, so if a ship has 8 heavy double turbolasers, it will inflict 8 sets of 4d10x5 (not 16 sets). All x5 weapons are capital-grade, while x2 non-ion weapons are anti-fighter point defense guns (except the turbolasers on the Corellian Corvette -- all turbolasers are long-range weapons unsuitable for anti-fighter use). The Venator's turbolasers are mounted in so-called "partial turrets" that can fire into two arcs. Sorry, but I don't have fire arcs for the Tartan and Broadside. You'll have to make an educated guess.

 

Note that there are more different types of blaster cannon, lasers, and turbolasers than those that are used by the ships listed above. But I'd rather not get anyone upset with me for copyright infringement by publishing a full table of them. Besides, if the ships in EAW don't use them, then you don't need to know. Unless you wish to model some other ship. If you do, just ask me for the specs on that particular ship (or ships).

[Adonnay]

So the Corvettes "Turbolasers" do less damage than the fighter-cannons?

[Tal Odo-ki]

So the Corvettes "Turbolasers" do less damage than the fighter-cannons?

The Corvette mounts the weakest of the 9 different types of turbolasers.

 

Please note that I edited my post to add fire arcs for all ships larger than 100m in length. Don't worry about arcs for the small ships.

[Adonnay]

Oh my... I just tried to implement the weapon charts for the corvette, the gunboat and the nebulon B... if I do that 1:1 the corvette will do ridiculously low damage with a ridiculously low rate of fire or the larger ships will go through the roof with their damage and their rate of fire...

 

The margin between the damage values and the number of weapons is so vast compared to the number of hardpoints a model has. I mean I have to put 60 turbolasers onto 4 hardpoints on the ISD but at the same time 6 cannons on 6 hardpoints for the corvette. On the corvette it's fine... if I define that every cannon can shoot once per second its easy. But to have 60 cannons on 4 hardpoints and let each one shoot once per second... you can do the math. The monster would have to spit out lasers at a rate of 15 shots per second...

 

Ah well... I'll stop complaining... I hate math

I'll guess I have to start with one shot every 2 seconds and I might come out fine with 7.5 shots per second for the ISD. Do you have ICQ or MSN?

 

edit: concering the fireing arcs... I don't know how the firing bones are placed on the models so I can't really tell where they point to adjust their firing arc. That would take a looong test phase (i.e. activate only one cannon and see where it can target enemies etc.)

[Tal Odo-ki]

Hey, I did the easy work of getting the specs. You're doing the hard stuff. I'm still busy modding UFO:Aftershock and Civ4, so I'm letting you do all the heavy thinking for EAW. hehe

 

I don't use ICQ or MSN. But you're welcome to PM or email me as much and as often as you'd like.

 

As for arcs, I provided them in case you needed them. I don't expect that EAW will allow you to be as "realistic" as the pen & paper RPG is. RPGs are intended for much more serious gamers.

[Adonnay]

Umm... didn't you tell me the Venator has assault missile tubes? In your chart above he doesn't...

[mandead]

Hello, chaps

 

I'm still here, don't worry. I'm tweaking the MasterTextFile, but stuff's being changed all the time so the main units I am leaving 'till you've finished them (well, more or less) until I update the tooltip information.

 

Just saves me a lot of work in the long run

 

It's being worked on, though. And can you double (or more?) the power of the Hypervelocity gun for the next release? I suppose increasing the price would be good, too.

 

Cheers!