Nute Gunray Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 If you want to be specific, the entire US Sixth Fleet is somewhere near Taiwan. It's pretty sad for China, Russian, and South Korea when it's said that the dominate military force in the Far East is a mere segment of half a Navy from an entirely different part of the world (That would be the Sixth Fleet). (Until it's the Seventh Fleet and I got confused). The Chinese would want to be able to use their <a href="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/type-80.htm">Type 80</a>, <a href="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/type-85.htm">Type 85</a> and <a href="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/type-90.htm">Type 90</a> tanks, since they are most comparable to US/NATO tanks, but they're heavy which would be a major problem for them in an amphibious campaign. They would probably wind up using older, lighter tanks such as the <a href="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/type-69.htm">Type 69</a>, <a href="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/type-62.htm">Type 62</a>, and <a href="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/type-59.htm">Type 59</a>. <a href="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/index.html">This is the best list of non-American military equipment that I've seen</a> Just as a note, the British don't have MLRS. That's an American vehicle. If they British had such a system, it would probably be the LRM or MARS. Nor do you have Challenger Is in service anymore. But I'm fairly certain that that British would use anything that still moved and had a gun on it if they were fighting China alone. And assuming they could make a massive airlift of armor to Taiwan fast enough to hit the Chinese before they take control of the island. Sadly the British lack such capabilities. It is good that you picked the British. A NATO nation that's actually capable of being on the winning side of a war, but doesn't have battlefield omnipotence like the US. We've got a bomb that carries 40 bomblets that EACH go after a different target and fire a rocket straight down into it. So one bomb=40 dead PRC tanks. One B-2 can carry 34 of them. So one B-2=1360 dead tanks... ps aircraft: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/row/index.html [This message has been edited by Nute Gunray (edited July 17, 2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jabba The Hunt Posted July 17, 2001 Share Posted July 17, 2001 ok heres a half complete web site for the mod, hope you enjoy. http://realityproject.freehomepage.com ------------------ "Its Going down his leg i think we are going to have to amputate. "No, dont take the leg, dont let them take the leg, they cant take the leg!!!" "Its heading for his testicles" "Take it, take the leg!!!" jabbathehunt@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Coffeebean_uk Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Nute, I probebly know more about the British aremy than you know about the US forces. We do have a tracked MLRS, Based on an American model, With some British refinements which has been in service scince the Early 1990s. We do still have the Challenger. It is staying in service to complement the Challenger 2 untill such funds are available to totaly refit the Challenger 1 fleet and upgrade it to the Challenger 2 standard. In much the same way as youu did when you upgraded the Abrahams MBT. Using our bases in Germany, Cyprus and Gibraltar, who at the bigining of a climb to war with china would have been getting ready to move out, we could have an advanced scouting force on tiwan on a mission to slow down the Chinx, who do have far inferior equipment, within 5 days. SAS would probebly allready be there. The 6th or 7th fleet would probeby buy us some time by trying to dissuade the chinkie fleet. We would be able to have a significant force on Tiwan before the Chinx had a chance to dig in. And if we didnt, Falkland proved that we could fight against an entrenched superior force. AND STILL WHOOP THEIR ASSES. Argue over American Army with me, But dont over the British. I would hate to have to get the data to prove you wrong. mainly because it is in the Library @ school and i cant get to it till september. ------------------ Yea as I walk through the valley of the shadow of Death. I shall fear no evil, For I have The BIGGEST F***ING Stick in the valley. - Deep Blue Sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zoom Rabbit Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Coffeebeaner, are you referring to that little scrap with Argentina? Well, I guess that was a pretty tight spot for the Empire, eh, mate? *(Runs away before argument gains momentum.)* <font size=1>*(Yells 'Vive la resistance!' before disappearing over the horizon.)*</font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Coffeebean_uk Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 That little scrap with Argentina, yes. The one we sank your Battleship at. That was funny, survived Pearl, sold to Argies, Blown to **** by an inexperienced Captain, LOL ------------------ Yea as I walk through the valley of the shadow of Death. I shall fear no evil, For I have The BIGGEST F***ING Stick in the valley. - Deep Blue Sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grand_Admiral_Ice Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 I prefer you don't call my people Chinks or Chinx. ------------------ They're not children! They're a bunch of drug peddling midgets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sceltor Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 Originally posted by Coffeebean_uk: That little scrap with Argentina, yes. The one we sank your Battleship at. That was funny, survived Pearl, sold to Argies, Blown to **** by an inexperienced Captain, LOL It was a heavy cruiser, not a battleship. Besides, like a 60+ year old ship had any chance against a modern SSN anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted July 18, 2001 Share Posted July 18, 2001 you don't have MLRS. why? BECAUSE YOU DON'T CALL THEM MLRS. Your Challenger Is don't EXIST. They're Challenger IIs now. I wouldn't BEGIN to compare the Falklands (A ****ty little South American dictatorship versus the British) to Britian versus China. China's probably got 15 times more of EVERYTHING. It's not a matter of strategic posture that makes or breaks a deployment these days. Tanks and the equipment to support them are heavy and bulky. VERY FEW countries (one) have the capacity to do this. Everyone's militaries are still set up to get the Inter-German border and fight as fast as possible. Since the British were so close to Germany, then could just ferry their stuff to Calais or some other port and load it on a train. The Russians and all the other European nations would also use railroads to deploy. But the US couldn't, so we were the ONLY nation to develop heavy life capability. To get an idea of how hard it is to deploy overseas even WITH heavy airlift aircraft, I'll use the numbers for deploying a whole USAF composite wing to a prepared base (So i'm not taking anything that would be used to, say, prep the runway because the base is all finished and ready for us). Also notice that it's USAF. MOST of the stuff can fly itself. A C+ deployment (full wing, support personnel, and attached B-1Bs) is a total of 75 aicraft. It requires 1481 persons and 1464 tons of equipment. That makes for 80 C-141 Starlifter flights. EIGHTY transport planes are needed to deploy 75 things that FLY THEMSELVES into combat. You're proposing that a nation with very, very little heavy lift ability airlift thousands of tanks, hundreds of thousands of troops, thousands of vehicles, thousands of support personnel, and millions of tons of ammunition (remember, you're trying to do this as fast as possible, so there's no time to just sail a ship into Taipei and unload it. Besides, Taipei is the obvious landing point) all before the Chinese gain total control of Taiwan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zoom Rabbit Posted July 19, 2001 Share Posted July 19, 2001 You're manifesting national pride over sinking an outdated WW2 era battleship some forty years later, in the service of Argentina? Uhm... Oh, nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted July 19, 2001 Share Posted July 19, 2001 I wish the British would learn that their time has passed. It's America's time now. Someday, our time too will pass. But it hasn't yet, so we're still number one. The best pro-American comment I ever heard was in a documentary about carrier battle groups over the years. The line "by the middle of the 1980s, a single US carrier battle group had more combined firepower than all the armed forces of the United Kingdom combined" was it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jabba The Hunt Posted July 19, 2001 Share Posted July 19, 2001 Ok everyone calm down this thread is here to discuss this sort of thing, now from what i hear your both right, Coffeebeans pride in the british army stops him from seeing your point and visa versa, so here is what will happen, the deploy a small, but significant force in america to keep the americans busy while they fight the British, about half way through the game the Americans will come in, there will also be an american campagin in later versions. Ok about how fast we can deploy our units, the first few missions will make this point very very clear, there will be no bases and the whole objective will be using airlifted sas troops to sabotage enemy lines, also there will be some missions where we go in to help you guys deal with the Chineese in America. Any problems with this - complain below. ------------------ "Its Going down his leg i think we are going to have to amputate. "No, dont take the leg, dont let them take the leg, they cant take the leg!!!" "Its heading for his testicles" "Take it, take the leg!!!" jabbathehunt@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Coffeebean_uk Posted July 19, 2001 Share Posted July 19, 2001 One last point in defence of little old out dated England. One exercise, i can never remember the code name. 1 of our little low firepower ssns SimmuSank the Carrier at the centre of a CVBG. And Nute, dont talk about Britain, you know little and speek aout of your arse. Icey person, sorry bout calling your peeps chinks/chix Now back to bussines. Any ideas? ------------------ Yea as I walk through the valley of the shadow of Death. I shall fear no evil, For I have The BIGGEST F***ING Stick in the valley. - Deep Blue Sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted July 19, 2001 Share Posted July 19, 2001 1) OH NO! In a sim, a British sub sank a US carrier! FOR SHAME! A sub sunk up on a carrier and killed it. That's only happened...like A FEW DOZEN TIMES. BIG DEAL. At least we HAVE carriers. Your little floating Harrier bases don't count. Get something with at least steam catapults. Even the FRENCH have one of those under construction. 2) The Challenger 1 has been in service with the British Army since 1983. It was originally produced by the Royal Ordnance Factory in Leeds, which was acquired by Vickers Defence Systems in 1986. It is planned to begin withdrawing the Challenger 1 from service in 1998 and it should be completely replaced by Challenger 2 by 2002. SEEMS I WAS RIGHT. NO MORE CHALLENGER Is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Coffeebean_uk Posted July 19, 2001 Share Posted July 19, 2001 Originally posted by Nute Gunray: It is planned to begin withdrawing the Challenger 1 from service in 1998 and it should be completely replaced by Challenger 2 by 2002. /B] Plans Change, Note this is in Future tense. Means not happened yet, they changed their minds. You know how i know this? Wednesday 11th July 2001, on news while i was on holiday. Accident on salsbury plain - 1 Challenger fliped on to its turret killing two members of the crew. The Commander and Gunner died, The driver and armourer took injuries but were treatable. Salsbury Plain is our main training area. The news report said CHALLENGER, Not CHALLENGER II. We dont yet need big flat tops, but we can shure as hell sink em! ------------------ Yea as I walk through the valley of the shadow of Death. I shall fear no evil, For I have The BIGGEST F***ING Stick in the valley. - Deep Blue Sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Odin Posted July 19, 2001 Share Posted July 19, 2001 I would like to point out that we are allies afterall. Jabba I wouldn't put the brits to help the US, our military is large enough to handle the job. A better idea would be the brits doing what you said while the chinesse limit the help the US can give. Coffee, just because they didn't say it was a Challenger 2 doesn't mean it wasn't, they could have said one tank did something. I have taken a look at your ini file and I have to say your doing things the hard way, and your ini file is missing some parts. This may be causing some problems for you. I'll use msn to tell Jabba Back to the US Mil. what Nute said is true. We do have the best military right now. Look at some technology we have. A stealth fighter (f-22), stealth Helicopter (the Commanche), 2 Stealth Bombers. Our tanks use chasomething armor (I can say but not spell it). I point to the gulf war the proves it. We had the most soldiers and equipment over there but took the lest amount of causualties. (our tanks died do to a few instances of Friendly fired, so did some brit tanks as well) The other thing sinking one carrier in a sim doesn't really mean anything. Look at WWII The US lost carriers their to, but we still kick ass. The other thing is those sims are learning experiences, next time you might not be able to sink a carrier, who knows, who cares WE ARE ALLIES. ------------------ "Dulce bellum inexpertis." (Sweet is war to those who have never experinced it.) Roman Proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jabba The Hunt Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 Look personelly i think you all know stuff from your own point of view in our mod the Challenger 2 is not all that good, we may keep it in we may not since Coffeebean is the chief unit designer then his desicsion is final, however I think coffeebean is getting far too stressed over this, how about we just make peace etc, how about this nute you come up with a unit list you think is most realistic and you do the same coffeebean then we will compare them. ------------------ "Its Going down his leg i think we are going to have to amputate. "No, dont take the leg, dont let them take the leg, they cant take the leg!!!" "Its heading for his testicles" "Take it, take the leg!!!" jabbathehunt@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 Yes, it's 2001 and you stil have Challenger Is for a year or so. BUT your mod takes place THREE YEARS after the last Challenger I is scheduled to be upgraded. Therefore, you have no need for Challenger Is in your mod. And it's Chobam armor. Something that the British invented...we just make it for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jabba The Hunt Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 look i understand that just get me the units you think should be in it and we will discuss it. ------------------ "Its Going down his leg i think we are going to have to amputate. "No, dont take the leg, dont let them take the leg, they cant take the leg!!!" "Its heading for his testicles" "Take it, take the leg!!!" jabbathehunt@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Coffeebean_uk Posted July 20, 2001 Share Posted July 20, 2001 Ok, Nute, I say we agree to differ old boy. Im going to go all british Officer on you know for some reason. Challenger ones stay in to provide a more rounded force, we cant have the Anti Air and the twin 7.62 mm machine guns so Challenger gets the boring one, Challenger 2, as C 1 cant, gets AA capability. Admiral, thanx for the help with the ini. ------------------ Yea as I walk through the valley of the shadow of Death. I shall fear no evil, For I have The BIGGEST F***ING Stick in the valley. - Deep Blue Sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rogue 9 Posted July 21, 2001 Share Posted July 21, 2001 another problem...china doesn't have the abilty to move its army to taiwan, they could easily bomb it into the ground though as they have one of the largest air forces in the world. furthermore a conventional war with china isn't really possible as the only way to do that is eliminate there man power and even if the NATO forces eliminated 100 of the chinese for every lost NATO trooper they would still be loosing ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sceltor Posted July 21, 2001 Share Posted July 21, 2001 I sense this might turn into a China-bashing thread if we're not careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jabba The Hunt Posted July 21, 2001 Share Posted July 21, 2001 ok ok, we need another storyline, someone come up with a decent one and we will change it. ------------------ "Its Going down his leg i think we are going to have to amputate. "No, dont take the leg, dont let them take the leg, they cant take the leg!!!" "Its heading for his testicles" "Take it, take the leg!!!" jabbathehunt@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted July 21, 2001 Share Posted July 21, 2001 Becoming surprising vocal in the matter, China takes a proactive role as the third (and least often mentioned) member in the border disputes in Kashmir and invades. The NATO Coalition intervenes and attempts to repel China before two of the world's nuclear powers become desperate and attack a third nuclear power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milkshake Posted July 21, 2001 Share Posted July 21, 2001 Okay, Heres something I'm going to make up as I go along... It's some years in the Future, The United States is becoming ever more divided, in the west there are the sepratists, inspired by a strange new television channel preaching ideas of a Nation of Perfection, a nation of Peace and Unity, where all crimes are punishable by death. ALl Illness, deseases and Deformaties are treated where Death, basicly where the Weak and In-Efficiant are Punished by Death. Lead by one simply Known as the Prophet, this side seeks to turn the US into a sanctuary. In the East you've got you're average Americans. While the Goverment is trying to Play down this new threat, even trying multiply, but failed Legal Suits to Close down the Mysterious Faction. The Civilians though, are distrusting the Perfectionists more every day. Sales of Small Arms has Skyrocketed, Drug smuggling is no longer the Polices main Concern. Large Weaponry smuggling is taking up much of the Police Forces Resouces. The Number of Volunteers to join the Army is up 200% as evidence grows that the new faction is a threat the United States Unity. Spring comes. May 31 to be exact. The Perfectionists official day of good deeds, and a massive army is spotted by satilites, marching towards the East. The US Goverment Stops just short of Launching Nuclear Weapons, and Mobilises all forces, only to find that the Entire Pacific Fleet and much of the Armed Forces in the West have defected, those who do not tell tales of People of all ages willing to die for Unity under the New flag. The East, realising that they cannot fight this war alone call on their European Allies, offering their Extencive Transport network to get their forces their Quickly. While mainland Europe Hesitates, The UK Quickly Deploys Forces and are quickly picked up by American transports. The Entire British Airways Fleet is comandeered by the British Army to Transport Troops to the Front. As British Forces Arrive the fighting has Already started, to find that the East has been pushed back Dramaticly, The Ferocity of the West soon Becomes clear. The Second American Civil War has begun, destined to be even more bloody than the last. So? What do you think? Kinda Si-Fi I know, but It overcome many of the issues of the last plot, and besides, it can always be refined. So Fire Away any comments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Coffeebean_uk Posted July 21, 2001 Share Posted July 21, 2001 Very good milky. You do know Bussines Studies is over? You dont have to put the bit about BA in the story. I say the Chineese launched a successful Pearl Harbour Thingy, slowing down the Americans, giving the brits time to get out and get dirty before the Americans can deploy. It is feaseable, not likely but feasable. Say all the Americans have are a couple of LAs, Distroy a few buildings inexplacbley when we get missions on line and blame it on a LA Tommahawk strike. Yanks come in later on in a different mod and together, Blair and Bush kick ass. ------------------ Yea as I walk through the valley of the shadow of Death. I shall fear no evil, For I have The BIGGEST F***ING Stick in the valley. - Deep Blue Sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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