Admin Control

[Paro]

Multiple(preferably limitless number) rconpasswords with each having it's own rights.

 

Example:

1.rconpassword having the rights to execute any rcon commands and even change the rights of other rcons

2.rcon could only execute kick,cancelvote,change map etc.

3.rcon ...

 

It would be a good way of controlling admins. I'm not talking here about making OJP an 'admin mod' but just simply adding some new features.

 

 

PS: Yes I did ripped this from my other thread because I got a feeling this idea got somehow 'lost' in there..

[razorace]

I'm more of a fan of allowing the regular players do their own admining by voting rather than redesigning the rcon system to allow retarded sub-admins.

[Paro]

razorace wrote:

retarded sub-admins

Actually the point was to have the option of lessering the rights of those kids.

[razorace]

Err, my point is that I don't think it's our responsibility as moders to have to account for people giving rcon access to people who aren't responsible enough to handle it.

[Paro]

What if You had(owned) a server and simply didn't want Your admins to be able to '/rcon quit' it or change variables/strings?

[ensiform]

Then you find admins who you can trust.

[Paro]

I'm talking about something like forum rights, each moderator has his own part of the forum he moderates and can only do certain things while the main admin can screw the whole forum.

[Paro]

Link @ja+ forums wrote:

I'm giving clanmod a trial and it has its good and bad points...

 

JA+ has a better admin system.. but clanmod has better features AND most importatnly is that its open source so my friend can finally make his own mod and get rid of things we dont like in clan mod.

 

Theres a big chance i'll go back to ja+ but if it doesnt keep up with competition then more servers will become clanmod. Sorry to say that slider, i love ja+... but new features are like once a year...

http://japlus.net./phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=3351&sid=fb7a62930c2408bcdfd071c76e7976a8#3351

 

What I'm trying to point out is the thing that JA+ is so widely used because it gives the server owner better control over his server(& because it caters for the noobs...). Even the 'abused' commands slay,sleep,punish,silence etc. are a great addition. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not voting for admin-abuse. Just saying that a server owner should be able to actually control his server so he doesn't have to kick the troublemakers but so he can simply slap them so they get his point that they're doing something wrong. Of course the commands are abusable, but even the kick/ban command is abusable and I don't see it being removed.

 

I know You don't want OJP to become an 'admin mod' but a lot(read most) of the server admins wont even consider a mod that doesn't have admin-control an option. Admin-control in the sense of having control over the admins(limiting them from causing intentional or accidental damage/changes to the server/cfg).

 

That's why I said it would be nice to have multiple customizable rconpasswords. Preferably the number of the rconpasswords should be customizable too.

 

And if You would code in an ability to 'name' the rconpasswords(1. could be 'council' etc.) and an 'login' function(simply a substitute for 'set rconpassword') it would make OJP a wanted mod indeed.

[razorace]

The biggie has been that I haven't really cared about it enough to bother adding a 'good' admin system because it simply isn't something that I'd be interested in.

 

I understand that there is a bit of a market for this admin stuff but I also understand that most admins are picky enough that catering to them is a waste of time unless you give them every tiny little thing they want (read, abuse commands and emotes.)

[ensiform]

http://japlus.net./phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=3351&sid=fb7a62930c2408bcdfd071c76e7976a8#3351

 

What I'm trying to point out is the thing that JA+ is so widely used because it gives the server owner better control over his server(& because it caters for the noobs...). Even the 'abused' commands slay,sleep,punish,silence etc. are a great addition. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not voting for admin-abuse. Just saying that a server owner should be able to actually control his server so he doesn't have to kick the troublemakers but so he can simply slap them so they get his point that they're doing something wrong. Of course the commands are abusable, but even the kick/ban command is abusable and I don't see it being removed.

 

I know You don't want OJP to become an 'admin mod' but a lot(read most) of the server admins wont even consider a mod that doesn't have admin-control an option. Admin-control in the sense of having control over the admins(limiting them from causing intentional or accidental damage/changes to the server/cfg).

 

That's why I said it would be nice to have multiple customizable rconpasswords. Preferably the number of the rconpasswords should be customizable too.

 

And if You would code in an ability to 'name' the rconpasswords(1. could be 'council' etc.) and an 'login' function(simply a substitute for 'set rconpassword') it would make OJP a wanted mod indeed.

 

imo Shrubbot is about 50x more powerful than Council, Knight system in JA+. However it is IP based instead of password based because JKA does not have any GUID system but it could easily be changed to a password system. I'm actually considering adding a way for the server admin give some of the users a password that can be set to their admin item which can allow them to get their proper level if at a different IP.

[Kurgan]

I don't see the point in trying to make OJP "conform" to the supposed admin mod standards of admin mods that are popular. Essentially, yes, that entails sub admin features and abusive crap and pointless emotes.

 

That sort of thing has already been done to death, there's no benefit (and much deteriment) to adding it here. Kick, Ban, and teamvote kick (which is not abused like "vote kick" often is on public servers, by its very nature) and vote for map change/restart are really all you need.

 

We've run our server (Meatgrinder) for over a year with our latest host, and we currently have four admins (including myself, and not including Razor!). Three of those admins have been with us for many many months, and so far we've had no problems with people messing things up or any falling outs or having to "fire" people.

 

And we've been using OJP basic (or enhanced on occasion) this whole time, with no more "admin commands" than basejka came with (other than TeamVote Kick, which was part of Asteroids Mod originally, and a team switcher option). No sub admin features, all admins share the same password.

 

So find people you can trust, and these systems are not necessary.

 

Basically I think the corruption gets in when you have an IRC style system where people hand out subadmin functions to their friends or fans a "reward" for whatever, and then people abuse it or suck up to try to get these "powers." They don't do it for the good of the server, they do it as some kind of fun "perk." Thus you get substandard admins and you get people handing it out like candy to random people who abuse it.

 

This notion of "total control" over a server not being possible without multiple levels of admin and abusive functions to "punish" people is complete nonesense.

 

This stuff wasn't included in the Q3 engine initially, because it was unnecessary AND could lead to problems like that.

[Paro]

Basically I think the corruption gets in when you have an IRC style system where people hand out subadmin functions to their friends or fans a "reward" for whatever, and then people abuse it or suck up to try to get these "powers." They don't do it for the good of the server, they do it as some kind of fun "perk." Thus you get substandard admins and you get people handing it out like candy to random people who abuse it.

This so reminds me of JA+ servers :/

 

Ok point taken.

[DDROM]

Firstly I appologize for revieving and old thread......

 

A suggestion if i may,, the ability to have a cvar for no same names...would be handy,

 

All to often trouble makers deliberately use the name Padawan, Making it hard to kick or bann the offender. They play on this , and can cause no end of trouble.

In other mods a second padawan becomes padawan2 padawan3 etc, no biggy just a way to prevent the accidental kicking of players.

[[Alpha]-0mega-]

If you remember which Padawan you want to kick you can just use clientkick #UserID#

[phasmatis6]

Ah the competing interests. You want OJP to be popular (eagerly counting JK3Files downloads), but are making it primarily a gameplay mod. That's fine, but as Paro said, most people won't even consider a mod unless they can control and micro-manage their server. Once they've used JA+, why would they go back to a mod without /amsleep? As for giving rcon to "trusted admins", you have to realize: There aren't as many people playing JA as there once were. Many people are going to have to rely on "untrusted admins", who need to prove themselves with little responsibility before they can be given the full control over the server.

 

So, I'll make a prediction: Until OJP has most of the JA+ features, it will never surpass JA+ as the #1 mod.

[Maxstate]

You could argue that most of the old players moved to better mods like MovieBattles or FM3, which (AFAIK) lack the more intricate administrator functions. Even any new games they might've moved on to will lack these very same things, unless they decided on star wars galaxies.

 

There's an untapped source of players who are waiting for a no-bull**** mod that doesn't crash every 30 minutes and has a decent saber system. These players have been showing up on OJP servers. I've counted between 8 and 10 online servers on my last count, I would give you an updated list if it weren't for the masterlist borking all the time (we need to see if we can fix this).

 

What I'm trying to say here is, that people who used to play this game when they were 13 and felt the urge to dominate anyone they didn't like with all kinds of nasty administrator features, have grown. I'm betting that, they've grown so much that they're willing to accept themselves as being just another ordinary player; just another player if the mod that they are playing is a good mod that makes them feel at home.

 

OJP's V1.2 release has a download count of near-7000. This is something we should be proud of. We've made a little dimple in the amount of bandwidth that was going to JA+ for almost 8 weeks in a row. People have gotten a taste of what it's like to play a real mod, and are eagerly awaiting more.

 

We can give them more, and we will give them more. And we'll hopefully draw players that "moved on", back to the game that used to eat up most of the time that wasn't spent in school or doing homework. I've been reading the SA Forums, and they had a thread in their games section where people were going back to JKA base just to annoy the Honor-duelists. The same happened multiple times on Totse, and god knows how many other forums.

 

The potential playerbase is there, we need not worry. I also think we shouldn't be making any predictions or bets yet, so I'll put a foot in my own mouth here.

 

Let's concentrate on doing what we do best and make OJP even better than it is now.

 

Here's something I haven't excluded as a parameter; a good-spirited hope/

 

To 10.000 downloads for V1.3!

[SilentSight]

most people won't even consider a mod unless they can control and micro-manage their server

And those are the kind of admin abusing control freaks we don't want in OJP.

[Carbon016]

That's fine, but as Paro said, most people won't even consider a mod unless they can control and micro-manage their server.

 

 

Then they can go get hit by a dump truck. SilentSight is right.

 

Comparing a gameplay modification to one that enables a slew of dumb admin commands is not fair, end of story. If OJP should be "competing" against anyone, it should be the other gameplay mods that exist, not JA+. You can argue that OJP is not a gameplay modification, but ever since Enhanced was chosen the way forward rather than Basic I think it's given it's not a add-on mod anymore.

 

Your opinion of the MB team aside one thing they did do correctly is carve out the gameplay mod niche in a way FM3 failed to do effectively. They locked down the play style to the point where a MB server was a MB server and if you wanted to run some wacky honourz duel MB server you'd end up banning people en masse. OJP doesn't try to do that, but it does impose standards of play implicitly, probably because of its higher learning curve versus the base game. Therefore while OJP may be used to whatever end you wish, it has already proven itself not to be the kind of mod that requires including whatever (relatively useless) features exist elsewhere, because it's already clearly defined what it's going to be. Will the flexibility be gone? No. But there's a difference between flexibility and pandering. If you came to OJP, especially *now* thinking it was going to be an admin mod, you didn't do your research.

 

I would also make the assumption that where the players go so will the server owners: we often think of it as the reverse, but many have had a long time to wise up to the fact that getting in on the ground floor when a mod's single release had 5K+ downloads beats running some 2-player-average base server or something. I don't think server owners will go "welp, I could become one of the main supporters of this mod by hosting a server a lot of people will use, but if only I could slap people across the map. Guess I'll give up on this."

 

edit: I just want to clarify - I'm not opposed to a subadmin feature. Every Linux admin knows you don't give everyone root. I don't think, though, that anything other than adding another permissions level is valid, primarily because of the reasons above.

[DDROM]

Not that im waving the ja+ flag but People dont down load ja+ from jk3 files now as the version of ja+ on jk files is too old, Ja+ 2.4 beta 3 is only available from sliders site. hence the low downloads from jk3 files for ja+..... just a point,

 

Btw keep up the great work on OJP guys..

[[Alpha]-0mega-]

Wasn't that 2.4 beta 3 only the client-side plugin?

Or did they update the server too after all these years?

[Maxstate]

I'm with Razorace's prime directive on this one.

 

The only administrative or penalizing functions that should be used are ones that the players themselves can influence. Take for example something that MovieBattles uses: penalty points. You get a penalty point each time you frag a person on your own team. When you reach the server's specific maximum of penalty points, you are kicked or specced.

 

It should be clear that we don't want to specialize in penalizing our members as much as MovieBattles does, but there should be a way, in my opinion, to decrease the number of hard-earned points someone has. The point-gathering system has gone through some changes as of late and because of these changes it's harder for a player to gather the points they need to survive. Combine this thought with our original premise of wanting to make the game more "dangerous", giving players the will to live in-game.

 

It's not hard to reach conclusions that mention point-reduction in the same breath as they do team-killing, or self-killing.

[razorace]

So, you're suggesting that team-killing or suicides could reduce your skill point count?

 

That seems reasonable to me as long as it's a server setting. I'd also suggest that you shouldn't be able to lose points below the starting exp points setting.

[phasmatis6]

You could put some kind flood control on team kills, so that those who join just to disrupt the game are ineffective at it.

[SilentSight]

'Good' and 'Evil' are a matter of opinion, so you are always going to find people who are going to both agree and disagree in this matter. I feel RazorAce's method of neutrality suits the situation best as it grants no-one power. Absolute Power, Corrupts Absolutely.

 

On a seperate note, I'd like to make a call for the ability to disable manual selection of team choice as a server command. I've played through enough team matches in any game to safely say that people are too greatly inclined to choose the side that happens to have the advantage at the time of joining irrespective of actual number.

 

Side Edit: And a cool-down timer for voting. People get over-eager when their votes aren't accepted by the majority.

[[Alpha]-0mega-]

Side Edit: And a cool-down timer for voting. People get over-eager when their votes aren't accepted by the majority.

 

lol I remember that from URPC.

Some guy kept spamvoting and after I informed the admin voting got disabled, and everyone got mad at me.

 

Only problem with ''suicide'' reducing skillpoints is that at the moment some of the ''grip into abyss'' kills count as suicides due to collision with other objects or something.

 

I guess you'll have to either fix that, or just accept it.