Congratulations are in order (???)

[Darth InSidious]

I do not deny you your right to comment about your own country but find your lack of nuances rather displeasing.

 

Every country which just got independance will feel the secession backlash within the first years.

We aren't talking about 'secession backlash' - there is no money in the country. There hasn't been for centuries.

Ireland for example, was quite poor for a long time, yet if you look at today, one of the countries with the best living standards in all of Europe. A real fiscal paradise some say. So neither Wales or Scotland will suddenly see a beautiful increase in living standards but this does not mean they never will.

Scotland has the infrastructure to support itself, and the ability to build on it.

 

Wales has nothing. It is a destitute subnation with no infrastructure and still divided to a surprising degree along tribal/regional lines. North Wales considers itself a separate entity from the South, the South resents the North's resentment, the middle is fed up of both of them...Wales is not cohesive, has no infrastructure, and won't build one because they lack the willingness to put aside common mistrust for the greater good. Why do you think the Welsh haven't rebelled/had an uprising since Owain Glyn Dwr?

 

There isn't a national identity - there isn't a cohesiveness beyond the most basic local level. Wales cannot support itself mostly because of this, and also because the only asset that Wales had/has is the landscape and a miserable and rather damp history. The landscape is frequently marred by their butt-ugly idea of architecture, and the history - after the yet another set of infighting and another failed rebellion in 1301 or something it gets rather dull.

 

Second, if independance was all about money, I'd rather never see a country secede. Coming from an ex-french colony and living in what some of my peers consider an english colony, I can understand how it's important for a group of people to want to have the control of their own destiny.

 

That is why there are Welsh constituencies. And also why the West Lothian Question needs answering.

 

To put it in brief for you: right now, there is a Welsh Assembly that governs Wales' local affairs, as well as the 50-odd Welsh constituencies, out of a grand total in the entire UK of 646. Given the relative size, I am sure you will agree that this gives fair representation. Not only this, but while they and their Scots counterparts can vote on English affairs, English MPs cannot vote on Scottish or Welsh affairs, or influence the Welsh Assembly/Scottish Parliament.

 

Controlling your destiny is one thing - but this isn't about that.

[Hallucination]

what's so bad about toronto ?

It's the only city in Canada with hard-core, American-style crime.

 

@LIAYD: Please let me give some background on what will happen if Quebec leaves, and why everyone is afraid of it, from an Anglo-Canadian point of view:

 

1) If Quebec left, Newfoundland would drift off to sea.

2)The other provinces in the area would follow it.

3) B.C. would float off to Asia, and I would have to learn either Mandarin, Hindi, or Korean.

4)The prairie provinces would separate, and form a new country, most likely named Harperia, Flatland, or Wheatington.

5)The territories would realise what was happening and have their own Ice Age so they aren't stuck with Ontario.

6)Ontario would see that they are doomed to fail miserably, try to join the UK (who would reject them), and then commit mass suicide with some type of nuclear maple tree, and crime.

[lukeiamyourdad]

1) If Quebec left, Newfoundland would drift off to sea.

2)The other provinces in the area would follow it.

3) B.C. would float off to Asia, and I would have to learn either Mandarin, Hindi, or Korean.

4)The prairie provinces would separate, and form a new country, most likely named Harperia, Flatland, or Wheatington.

5)The territories would realise what was happening and have their own Ice Age so they aren't stuck with Ontario.

6)Ontario would see that they are doomed to fail miserably, try to join the UK (who would reject them), and then commit mass suicide with some type of nuclear maple tree, and crime.

 

1. Doesn't it already do?

2. Same.

3. Nah, Québec doesn't need to secede for that. It's already underway China's going to start by sending massive numbers of immigrants to Vancouver and eventually gain absolute majority in the area. Then, they'll spread to the rest of the province and begin a secession movement, that since most are Chinese now, will win without a doubt. After secession has been made, they vote to unite with China. BC becomes the stepping stone of Chinese invasion of North America.

4.

5.

6.

 

 

To put it in brief for you: right now, there is a Welsh Assembly that governs Wales' local affairs, as well as the 50-odd Welsh constituencies, out of a grand total in the entire UK of 646. Given the relative size, I am sure you will agree that this gives fair representation. Not only this, but while they and their Scots counterparts can vote on English affairs, English MPs cannot vote on Scottish or Welsh affairs, or influence the Welsh Assembly/Scottish Parliament.

 

Never stopped Québec to want to secede. Like I said, there's much more then money to a secession movement or relative control over "the state".

 

We aren't talking about 'secession backlash' - there is no money in the country. There hasn't been for centuries.

 

Yeah, we are. Whatever happens, you simply do not consider all the possible scenarios. Granted, the movement might not be very strong, but you cannot predict the future and say that it never will. Nor can you say that a country will forever be poor.

 

Ireland went from hellhole to one of the richest.

Vietnam went from bombed out jungle with dirt roads to second fastest growing economy since the US embargo has been lifted.

 

You seem to be from what is called the cultural branch in comparative politics. A quite outdated one as well, though some still like to use it. Max Weber, for example, used it to explain how protestantism was the only religion capable of getting rich off of capitalism. Why do I say it's an outdated vision? Weber's claim cannot explain how confucianist and buddhist Asian economies got the nickname "tiger" for their incredible growth.

 

You put no importance into the political actors and economical actors. Both can change the landscape and turn a whole country around. Historical neo-institutionalism ftw!

[Darth InSidious]

Never stopped Québec to want to secede. Like I said, there's much more then money to a secession movement or relative control over "the state".

Never said there wasn't. I was just pointing out that thte desire to secede is perhaps a little less justified than has been made out.

Yeah, we are. Whatever happens, you simply do not consider all the possible scenarios. Granted, the movement might not be very strong, but you cannot predict the future and say that it never will. Nor can you say that a country will forever be poor.

Wales isn't a country, TBH. It's a collection of tribes. Wales has nothing to grow an economy out of, unless a fairly small trade in largely English tourists counts, and the Welsh hate the English.

Ireland went from hellhole to one of the richest.

Vietnam went from bombed out jungle with dirt roads to second fastest growing economy since the US embargo has been lifted.

In Wales there's no cohesiveness, no will for the common good, no desire to put aside differences to do best by the whole. I can tell you now that if Wales was granted secession the first thing that would happen would be that border would be closed, and the internecine divisions would begin.

You seem to be from what is called the cultural branch in comparative politics. A quite outdated one as well, though some still like to use it. Max Weber, for example, used it to explain how protestantism was the only religion capable of getting rich off of capitalism.

I'm not using any 'branch' of politics. I'm telling you what Wales is like. And this is it, believe it or not. I'm not saying that Welsh can't make a go of it - I'm saying they won't. You keep saying I don't know, but in truth, you don't know. You don't know Wales at all, I suspect.

 

Why do I say it's an outdated vision? Weber's claim cannot explain how confucianist and buddhist Asian economies got the nickname "tiger" for their incredible growth.

 

You put no importance into the political actors and economical actors. Both can change the landscape and turn a whole country around. Historical neo-institutionalism ftw!

I'm looking at both. Wales has an economy based solely on agriculture and tourism, and a politics largely based on secession on the grand scale. Wales at the more basic level is, however, still divided on tribal lines. Believe me.

 

Don't tell me that those divisions have no relevance. In Wales who your great-great-great-great-grandfather was, or how long your family has lived in this here village is very important. I think you underestimate the impact of culture on politics.