New to modding, and feeling overwhelmed. (Many questions inside.)

[bluewhale]

A little bit of an intro: I've never wanted to make a mod before. Or, I should take that back. There are times when I've briefly thought about making a mod for other games, but then quickly remembered that I really had no interest in programming. So any thoughts about modding in the past have been fleeting. However, I've thought seriously about KOTOR modding for a few reasons... It seems much more accessible to mod than other games, and both KOTOR 1 and 2 have affected me in ways that few other games have. KOTOR 1 in a good way, and KOTOR 2 in a... way that is difficult to describe. But that's a topic for another thread, anyways. Even though overall, I like KOTOR 2 less than KOTOR 1, I didn't really feel like KOTOR 1 needed mods, as it feels like a pretty complete game as it is. KOTOR 2 didn't feel whole.

 

Qualification: I know nothing about modding. I know nothing about programming, which in the past has seemed both daunting and not very interesting to me (but I am willing to try to learn more about it). I definitely feel more comfortable on the creative side of things. I know modding will be difficult at first for me, because I know I will want to be focusing my energy with refining the ideas, but I also realize that without learning the technical side, ideas cannot be implemented. I've spent the past few days reading over various introductory posts about modding, reading threads about mods seeking to changing similar things, and looking over the tools, and I still feel way over my head. Everything seems esoteric and byzantine, a confusing mishmash of long scripts and strange file extensions.

 

I thought that a better way to get started would be to download some of the tools, and just start poking around. So, I downloaded KT and DLGEditor. DLGEditor seemed the most accessible. I mean, dialogue trees seemed like they'd be easy to understand, something laid out in both a logical and visual manner, which would be more comfortable to start with. So I felt a little despondent to find even that was not as straightforward as I thought it would be. Sidenote: Does the DLGEditor have a wordwrap function of some sort? It didn't help things seem any easier when you have to scroll to read each entry. Afterwards, I loaded up KOTOR tool and looked around at the items. I figured they'd be easy to edit, but I have no idea how to change the XML for the item properties.

 

I guess I'm writing this post because I'm both feeling totally overwhelmed, and I'd like to know more about what I'm getting into. It would be nice to know what's feasible and what's not from the experienced modders in the community. I apologize if this post is verbose, I know there's a lot of questions in here, but don't feel obligated to answer all of them, just the ones you can.

 

Initially I didn't plan on the mod being very complex, just a few small things. However, the more I thought about it, the more ideas I had, and soon, the mod seemed very ambitious. I have since broken it up into six levels, from what seems the easiest to the most difficult, and I figure I'll try to complete one level at a time, so even if I decide not to do all six levels, there will still be something to show.

 

Here's the basic outline I have right now, along with questions about each of them. These are arranged in what I've gleaned to be the easiest to the most difficult from reading other posts, so if you have actual modding experience, please let me know if you disagree with the order. I apologize for not giving too many details on the mod. I'll start a WIP thread that will be less cryptic, after I have gotten some feedback and am more sure that I will start working on this.

 

Okay. So here's the breakdown of the plan I have so far.

 

Level 1 Goals: Basic Item Editing. Learn how to create and edit custom items that are not shown in-game (belts, armbands, headgear) learn how to extract and modify inventory icon .tga's for said items.

 

Questions: For the basic items, I'd like to change things that affect critical range and damage, but none of the things I plan to change are actually weapons. Is this possible? I'd also like to have things add damage ranges. Is there a maximum damage that a non-weapon item can add?

 

Level 2 Goals: Advanced Item Editing, Basic Scripting. Learn how to create, edit, and retexture custom items shown ingame (armor). Learn how to make both basic and advanced items available ingame.

 

Questions: How difficult is it to modify textures for items? Is there a good way to do this without having to constantly switch back between editing a 2D texture and having to load up the game to view the results in 3D? How difficult is it to add a new item with a custom model without replacing an old one?

 

Level 3 Goals: Add New Feats, Force Powers, and Forms. Learn how to modify and create all of these, as well as add new icons to their respective areas. Connect finished Feats and Powers with animations and visual effects.

 

Questions: Is this even possible? I have not seen any mods that have created new feats as of yet. Some of the things that are planned as feats I could get away with putting in Force Powers, but many are planned for as feats, and would work better there. From some of the posts I've been reading, I've started to get the impression that feats are not modifiable for some reason. Is it still possible to create new ones?

 

I've also yet to see anyone add or modify the Lightsaber Forms, so is this even possible?

 

Level 4 Goals: Add new NPC's and dialog to existing modules, learn how to implement Talk Fight Talk Sequence, and "Player has learned new feat" dialog sequence.

 

Level 5 Goals: Add new plot and sidequests, learn how to add/update journal entries, learn advanced scripts and triggers that check to see what things player has already done.

 

Level 6 Goals: Add voice/music.

 

I'm also hesitant to begin modding, since the TSLRP doesn't seem too far off (hopefully), and I'd prefer not to have to go back and redo everything, if I'm able to finish the mod. So, sidequestion to those with mod experience, does anyone have an idea of what types of files the TSLRP is going to affect, or any guesses as to how difficult it will be to integrate mods with it?

 

Anyway, thanks, and I appreciate any answers you all can offer. I've really enjoyed using some of the mods everyone here has put out.

[SithRevan]

Well I think your goals a very reasonable and well outlined for what you plan on doing in the future but I do recommend to go with the flow... in so many words. Don't try to plan out learning how to mod. Just pick up things as you go along. Now about some of the questions you had. Item editing is probley the most basic skill in modding besides retexturing that you can learn as it is all pretty much automated. The first thing I would do is pick up a good tutorial on how to do it. I recommend this one here as it is the one that I started on. Now just follow that and try your best and I think you will do fine. Ok now on to your question about feats and forms. Those two particular things I am pretty sure are not able to be modified. They are actually set within the hard coding and to my knowledge there is no way to make new ones. Unfortunatly that is one of the problems you may face in modding. I hope this helps you out a little and I hope we can see some of your mods come out soon. Just remember to be organized (very organized) and not get too stressed while doing it and I think you will have major fun. Also remember that if you are stuck on something to post a thread asking for help. I am sure that everybody will be totally happy to help you including myself. So good luck and may the Kotor Tool serve you well.

 

Oh yeah also in case nobody told you... Welcome to LF:waive1:

[PrimusPilus]

Well hello!

 

It looks like we have parallels in our modding adventures. I too have never modded a game before and I have been inspired to MOD thanks to this game and a few individuals on this board.

 

A few tips I have found which have helped me learn:

 

1. Download a MOD which is close to what you are trying to do and dissect it.

 

2. Read and then re-read and then re-read again the many tutorials on this board for how to MOD this fine game. For example, you are looking how to change item properties and create a custom item in your Goal #1. This link here: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=143456 will give you much of the information you are looking for.

 

3. ASk questions. The only dumb question is the one that is never asked. There are many fine people on this board who will help you. Unlike some other places, they seem to remember what it was like when they first started out modding and will help you tremendously.

 

4. Make Kotor Tool your friend . Learn this program in and out. Just mess around with it if nothing else.

 

5. A good graphics paint program like Photoshop is essential for your Goal #2 re-texturing.

 

6. Get KSE (save game editor) as this has helped me find the ItemResRef that I wish to modify.

 

Now, to help get you started on part of your goal#1:

 

- Open Kotor Tool

- If this is for KOTOR then make sure you are navigating in the Kotor 1 tree and if this is for TSL, then make sure you are navigating in the Kotor 2 tree.

- Open the tree called .BIFS

- Open the tree called templates.bif

- Open the tree called Blueprint, Item

 

A whole mess of files all ending in the extension .uti should of opened up. These are the items that are in the game. Everything from armour, to belts, to implants to weapons.

 

- Double left click on one, it doesn't matter which one, and the Item Editor should of now popped up. There are four tabs across the top. General, Properties, Description, Comment. Take a look at these and see if any of it starts making sense. If you want to perform any permanent modifications, then you need to extract the file using the big Extract File button. Save it some where handy. If you want to open the file you just extracted, load up Kotor Tool, Click File at the top, click Open GFF files, navigate to where you saved the file in question, highlight it and click open. Remember, only modify a file you have extracted, you don't want to permanently change a game file!

 

Hope this helps a bit, and I can definatley give you some assitance if you have any more questions. Some of your later goals, like adding new plots and sidequests I haven't attempted yet, but perhaps we can share our findings and make life easier on the both of us.

 

PrimusPilus

[JC9542]

Hi there, I'm pretty new to the KOTOR modding scene myself. However, I've found it pretty fun and more than a little addicting. So far I've mostly tweaked existing items and learned how to futz around to combine mods, but really it hasn't been too hard at all. I'm not very experienced yet, but I can offer a little starting advice. Hit up the tutorials on the boards here if you haven't already. There's a lot of good advice in them.

 

So far I've found that modding/adding items isn't too hard, you may want to play around with a few of the existing mods and use them as examples to see how things work. Replacing the inventory icons shouldn't be too hard either. With Kotor Tool you need to go to ERF's -> TexturePacks-> I. Just double click on the file name and it should bring up a little preview, and you can hit extract on the main window to dump the file somewhere to work with it. Working out what some of the properties are for the items can be a little tricky, but so far I've managed to figure out most of what I want to do through trial and error and the occasional post here.

 

Adding items to a unique NPC, merchant, or unique container isn't too bad either. Although you may have to do a little digging through the modules to find the correct file. There's UTC files for the NPC's , UTP for placeables (containers and corpses), and UTM for merchants if I have this right. If you want to directly add an item to a container/NPC, you have make sure that particular file isn't one of the generic templates that gets used throughout the game a lot. You can bring up the inventory for the NPC or container and just drop it in. If adding a completely new item, I usually drop in an existing item and then override the name. So it's pretty easy to give Davik something, but adding something to a generic foot locker would require a script.

 

Scripting doesn't seem to bad for the most part, although I used to be a Comp Sci major so my opinion is going to be a bit biased on that. But again take a look at the source scripts out there for existing mods and hit the tutorials and that should give you a basic start.

 

Other than that start small, take it in steps, backup your original files, and save your work often. I've only been modding for about a month, but I've found people on this forum are extremely helpful.

 

Good luck and have fun.

[Darth InSidious]

Welcome

 

Just a quick note, unfortunately, feats and forms are hard-coded and un-moddable, and the critical range stuff is I think also integral to the items themselves

[stoffe]

Level 1 Goals: Basic Item Editing. Learn how to create and edit custom items that are not shown in-game (belts, armbands, headgear) learn how to extract and modify inventory icon .tga's for said items.

 

Questions: For the basic items, I'd like to change things that affect critical range and damage, but none of the things I plan to change are actually weapons. Is this possible? I'd also like to have things add damage ranges. Is there a maximum damage that a non-weapon item can add?

 

The base critical hit values and base damage of weapons are set on the base item type (e.g. "Vibrosword") rather than the individual items (e.g. "Arkanian Vibrosword +2"). This means that in order to make a weapon of a certain type that deviates from the others of the same type you have to add a new base item type for it. This works for most weapons except lightsabers. This is done in the baseitems.2da file.

 

Things like bonus damage and doubled critical hit range can be added as item properties to individual items, set in their UTI templates.

 

I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean with changing critical range and damage of things that aren't weapons though. What other things would do damage?

 

Level 2 Goals: Advanced Item Editing, Basic Scripting. Learn how to create, edit, and retexture custom items shown ingame (armor). Learn how to make both basic and advanced items available ingame.

 

Questions: How difficult is it to modify textures for items? Is there a good way to do this without having to constantly switch back between editing a 2D texture and having to load up the game to view the results in 3D? How difficult is it to add a new item with a custom model without replacing an old one?

 

If you have a 3D modeling tool you can probably load the model you change the texture of there and see how the texture affects it, as well as check how the UV-mapping is laid out, as well as use an existing texture for the same model as a base.

 

As for adding new item models without replacing that depends. For armor/clothing/robes you have to replace one of the base body appearance variations, since the game is hardcoded to only handle 15 different body variations for each appearance type (set in the appearance.2da file). That only applies to changed models though, since each body variation can have many different texture variations assigned to it, which are added at the end of the filename of the texture and then set in the TextureVariation field in the UTI template of the clothing/armor item.

 

For things such as weapons and masks/visors is is easier since each base item can have 255 different model variations. You add them by naming your custom models according to the base item and then setting the Model Variation number at the end of the filename to something unique. This number is then set in the ModelVariation field in the UTI template for the item to tell it what model to use.

 

 

Level 3 Goals: Add New Feats, Force Powers, and Forms. Learn how to modify and create all of these, as well as add new icons to their respective areas. Connect finished Feats and Powers with animations and visual effects.

 

Questions: Is this even possible? I have not seen any mods that have created new feats as of yet. Some of the things that are planned as feats I could get away with putting in Force Powers, but many are planned for as feats, and would work better there. From some of the posts I've been reading, I've started to get the impression that feats are not modifiable for some reason. Is it still possible to create new ones?

I've also yet to see anyone add or modify the Lightsaber Forms, so is this even possible?

 

New feats can be added in the feat.2da file, but they can only be put to fairly limited use since you cannot specify what they should do directly like some of the standard game feats (e.g. "Power Attack"). Your new feats will do nothing, but you can check for their presence in scripts and then make that script behave differently if a character knows the feat. This limits their usefulness to things that are handled by scripting. You could for example make a feat that causes all force powers to do +10 extra damage, or makes it easier to persuade people in dialog. You could not make a feat that makes weapons do extra damage or have a better chance to hit (without employing more or less ugly workarounds at any rate).

 

Normal new force powers can be added without a problem. Pretty much all of what a force power does when cast is handled by a script, so a new force power could do anything the scripting language makes possible. The only thing you can't do related to force powers I can think of is alignment-limited powers (like the Jedi Master Inspire Followers or Sith Lord Crush Opposition), and passive force powers (like the deflect/reflect powers), since they work exactly like feats do.

 

As for Force and Saber Forms there is not much that can be done with them as far as I know. You can edit some of the behavior of the existing ones that affects how force powers are used or resisted, but I don't think you can add new forms, or make them affects weapon combat in different ways.

 

 

Level 4 Goals: Add new NPC's and dialog to existing modules, learn how to implement Talk Fight Talk Sequence, and "Player has learned new feat" dialog sequence.

 

Quite possible to do. New NPCs and dialogs can be added either by putting UTC templates and DLG files in the override folder or into the affected module file directly. Then you can spawn your new characters into the game world either via a script, or by altering the GIT file of the area (which contains lists of all dynamic objects (like characters, containers, triggers, sounds etc) that the area contains). Modifying the GIT file requires you to either put it back into the module file, or to repackage the module, since they don't work in the override folder without causing problems.

 

Creatures, placeables, waypoints, stores and sounds and items can be spawned into an area with scripts, while triggers, doors, cameras and encounters must be pre-placed within the GIT file if new ones should be added.

 

(The GIT file is a GFF format file and can be edited with K-GFF.)

 

 

Level 5 Goals: Add new plot and sidequests, learn how to add/update journal entries, learn advanced scripts and triggers that check to see what things player has already done.

 

Also possible. New journal entries have to be added to the global.jrl file, a file that contains all the journal entries and quest stages used throughout the game. This file can be put into the override folder when edited. The global.jrl file is a GFF format file and can be edited with k-gff. Each individual quest is identified by a text name tag i this file, and a number of numerical quest stages.

 

Journal entries/quest stages can either be updated directly from a dialog node in a DLG file, or via a script using the AddJournalQuestEntry() function. Both methods use the name tag of the quest from global.jrl, and the quest stage number that should be set.

 

To keep track of plots you can either check at what stage a quest is in the journal, or use global variables (added to the globalcat.2da file and then set or checked in scripts) to keep track of player actions. Many of the standard quests in the game, including the main plot, use a combination of journal stage and global variables to keep track of the progress.

 

 

Level 6 Goals: Add voice/music.

 

Normal voiceover for dialogs are set in the DLG file where there is a field for each dialog node where you can associate the name of a sound file with that dialog node. Lipsync files (.LIP) should be named the same as the sound file to be used.

 

Adding new music is done in the ambientmusic.2da file, where you set the name of the sound files containing the music, including any transition stringer sounds when combat music stops playing). The line numbers from this file are then set in the GIT file of an area to make it play that music when the player is there, though area music can also be changed dynamically via scripting.

 

Adding new soundsets for characters is done by adding entries for the various barks to the dialog.tlk file and setting the relevant sound files for those entries. These entries are then referred to from a SSF (Soundset) file which tells the game what entries to use in what situation. Finally the name of the SSF file should be added to the soundset.2da file to make them available to the game. The line number from this file is set in an UTC template to make the character use a soundset.

 

I'm also hesitant to begin modding, since the TSLRP doesn't seem too far off (hopefully), and I'd prefer not to have to go back and redo everything, if I'm able to finish the mod. So, sidequestion to those with mod experience, does anyone have an idea of what types of files the TSLRP is going to affect, or any guesses as to how difficult it will be to integrate mods with it?

 

While I don't know much of how the TSLRP mod works, in general compatibility depends on what you are changing. If you change standard game files there may be compatibility problems with other mods modifying the same files, though if either mod uses a mod installer that automatically merges the files that can be avoided with many file types. Standard game scripts have to be manually merged though, and as such I recommend you only modify them if you have to in order to accomplish what you desire to do.

 

As a general rule of thumb, pick a unique short suffix or prefix that you add to the filenames of new files you create in the cases where you can freely pick filenames. (For example I prefix all my new files names with "st_".) This decreases the risk of other mods adding new files that are named the same as yours are.

 

* * *

 

If you are new to modding the KotOR (or Neverwinter Nights) games you probably won't understand most of what I've written above yet, but hopefully it can be of some use down the line.

 

Good luck with your project, and don't give up when things get messed up. It can be quite confusing in the beginning, but soon you'll start to see how things fit together and it will become much clearer.

[bluewhale]

Wow. Thank you all for your responses. All the other posts I've seen weren't kidding about just how friendly and helpful this community is.

 

 

SithRevan: Thanks for the warm welcome, and the links.

 

Primus Pilus: Thanks for all of your tips! I'll have to go download KSE when I get the chance. I've been reading other tutorials, but if anything your instructions have been clearer and made more sense than other ones I've read!

 

Hope this helps a bit, and I can definatley give you some assitance if you have any more questions. Some of your later goals, like adding new plots and sidequests I haven't attempted yet, but perhaps we can share our findings and make life easier on the both of us.

 

Heh. First things first. If I am able to get to that point, I'd be happy to share notes with you. However, one step at a time

 

JC9542: Thanks for the detailed instructions! I will definitely refer back to them when I get further along.

 

Darth InSidious: Thanks for adding your input.

 

Stoffe: Thank you so much for your response. You are honestly the modder I look up to the most, from the mods I've used, so I really appreciate that you took the time to write out such a detailed answer.

 

You could for example make a feat that causes all force powers to do +10 extra damage, or makes it easier to persuade people in dialog. You could not make a feat that makes weapons do extra damage or have a better chance to hit (without employing more or less ugly workarounds at any rate). [/Quote]

 

Some of the Feats I'd like to add are more or less passive feats, where all they would do is modify to hit and damage bonuses... so does this mean that a feat such as this is doable?

 

If you are new to modding the KotOR (or Neverwinter Nights) games you probably won't understand most of what I've written above yet, but hopefully it can be of some use down the line. [/Quote]

 

Heh. This is totally true. For parts of your post I was like, "um, I'm not sure what this means." I'm still glad you wrote it, though. I'm sure it will be useful later on, and again, I really appreciate it.

 

I'm starting to feel more like this is doable, and I think I'll start trying to figure this all out.

 

I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean with changing critical range and damage of things that aren't weapons though. What other things would do damage? [/Quote]

 

I'm really glad you picked up on this. It's actually the whole point of the mod. I suppose I can finally reveal it, though. The general idea is to make an Echani Unarmed Combat mod. That's why I need to modify things that change damage that are not weapons.

 

Thanks again to everyone. I'll end by saying this:

 

Level 1 is in progress.

 

I'll get a WIP thread started soon with plans and more details.

[PrimusPilus]

No problem, glad I could help a bit . Just let me know if you need any more assistance.

[stoffe]

Some of the Feats I'd like to add are more or less passive feats, where all they would do is modify to hit and damage bonuses... so does this mean that a feat such as this is doable?

(snip)

I'm really glad you picked up on this. It's actually the whole point of the mod. I suppose I can finally reveal it, though. The general idea is to make an Echani Unarmed Combat mod. That's why I need to modify things that change damage that are not weapons.

Offensive item properties (like Attack and Damage bonuses) added to glove/gauntlet items are applied to unarmed attacks as far as I am aware, so that would probably be the easiest way to go. You can add Feat requirements to such item so they cannot be equipped unless the character knows a particular feat.

 

You can also make armbands or other items that an be activated that buff up the character with different bonuses depending on what feats they know.

 

Making new feats that more directly affect the base damage or attack bonus of unarmed attacks (like the Unarmed Specialist feats) would be harder though. As far as I know you cannot make such feats that works like normal without using workarounds. Since unarmed fists aren't a weapon item as far as I know it becomes difficult to modify or tie feats to.