Balancing suggestions

[TheShaman]

The point of a limited ammo pool is not to let gunners have infinite ammo, that's all, because it's just impossible to have infinite ammo.

[Yango]

Uh maybe a buyable ammo droid that you'd have to hide and protect that would give you ammo. Once it gets destroyed you could steal your enemies' one or use yours allies'. And yeah it could manufacture ammo using energy (from shield pickups? may drain your shield) in case of energetic ammo and -maybe- some rubbish in case of other stuff. It could automatically collect low amounts of materials when moving. It could be somehow remotely operated.

[madcatmach2]

how about we use this

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/5396/shot0001tj3.jpg

you place it somewhere like the sentry droid and can be destroyed for balance issues so a player would have to hide it somewhere. Buying it with a skill points, it regens all your energy ammo so it dosn't allow unlimited missiles or det's and gunners can still have something to fall back on in long fights.

[DarthDie]

Thats a good idea.

[Yango]

Would't it be too easy to find and destroy? Atleast you should be able to pick it up and put in a different place. A feature to cloak it would be nice too.

[TheShaman]

I like the idea, except the cloak part.

 

It should have a base pool of a certain ammount, and regen very slowly.

Once it's set, it should be pickable again.

But for balance issues, it should be destroyable (give it 50 hp or so), and it shouldn't regenerate it's pool while not placed (in inventory). So you can't just place it, empty it, pick it again and let it regen, you have to hide it somewhere to let it regenerate.

[Faelion]

I like the idea, except the cloak part.

 

It should have a base pool of a certain ammount, and regen very slowly.

Once it's set, it should be pickable again.

But for balance issues, it should be destroyable (give it 50 hp or so), and it shouldn't regenerate it's pool while not placed (in inventory). So you can't just place it, empty it, pick it again and let it regen, you have to hide it somewhere to let it regenerate.

 

No way! Then a large portion of a long game would be spent guarding the dispenser.

At least say "half (or even 1/4) recharge rate while in inventory".

The game would become so dull if you had to guard it while it was recharging.

Just make a benefit to have it out; not a requirement.

 

(Why aren't UDM's and ensiform's ideas good enough?)

 

In defense of UDM's idea, it is not infinite at a given point in time. (you have to finish a fight before you can recharge) How is that worse than a dispenser? Ammo dispensers would also charge almost everything at one time (not rockets or dets as said above).

An unlimited ammo pool would not result in four or more rockets being fired in succession.

[madcatmach2]

An unlimited ammo pool would not result in four or more rockets being fired in succession.

no just a guy camping some where firing them constantly and only rockets

The game would become so dull if you had to guard it while it was recharging.

Just make a benefit to have it out; not a requirement.

or you just don't place it out until you need the ammo so then your no guarding it forever. i don't guard my sentry gun that much and besides just find a better spot to hide it. i can name quite a few out of the way spots to hide things in just the base maps alone.

[Faelion]

no just a guy camping some where firing them constantly and only rockets

or you just don't place it out until you need the ammo so then your no guarding it forever. i don't guard my sentry gun that much and besides just find a better spot to hide it. i can name quite a few out of the way spots to hide things in just the base maps alone.

 

You don't guard a sentry gun; it shoots! If anything it guards you.

 

Camping isn't any worse or better with an ammo dispenser. If rockets did take 15 seconds then it certainly wouldn't be constantly.

 

Camping can be done with a disruptor more easily than a rocket launcher. Disruptors would get ammo from either, but if I remember correctly the ammo dispensers you want to use spill out ammo very quickly.

 

The reload time on a rocket launcher alone would be enough to get to him and kill him. Now, 15 seconds? Enough to chase him all over the map! (but he needs to be stationary so... there isn't a problem with stopping them)

 

Rockets are not an issue; disruptors are dangerous! More so with an ammo dispenser that resupplies them quickly.

 

However, no one has specified how long the ammo dispenser would recharge. Too short a time spams disruptors, too long is rather annoying. Either way it may be, just remember it doesn't take a fully charged ammo dispenser to provide a disruptor with a fully charged shot.

[TheShaman]

Maybe make the ammo dispenser have a 100 ammo recharge potential, recharging 1 per second while set, and 1 per 10 seconds while in the inventory.

[Yango]

Hey they would not be THAT valuable to sit and protect it all the time. You can always look for dead (or not) opponents' dispenser.

If they were able to regenerate while in inventory I'd kill the whole thing. The trick is to hide it and come back when you're out of ammo making sure nobody follows you. As maps are not designed to hide things I'd give it cloak.

And the regen rate should be like 1 ammo point per 2-3 seconds. To get 100 ammo I'd take around 4 minutes. Of course once the ammo is in the dispenser you could grab the whole pool instantly.

[Faelion]

If they were able to regenerate while in inventory I'd kill the whole thing.

 

Why so against having a reliable source of ammo?

 

The trick is to hide it and come back when you're out of ammo making sure nobody follows you. As maps are not designed to hide things I'd give it cloak.

 

Like you said, maps aren't designed to hide things. That means that there are only so many hiding places. That means that if you leave it somewhere, that place may be one of the popular hiding spots since it seems good (and thus not a good one). So there aren't good hiding spots; get it? If you find a dark shady corner, why wouldn't another gunner?

 

To sum it up again, dark places become the most obvious places to put them, so they may as well not be dark since everyone will put theirs there.

 

There would be dispensers in every dark spot. Sure, could be useful for gunners, but Jedi could just blow all of them to tiny pieces and the gunners would all have nothing at all.

 

By the way, would Jedi be able to see it with level 3 force sense?

 

Just let gunners have an item that recharges their gun after a long time standing still (or walking or something). (UDM's idea)

[TheShaman]

Still, cloak is a bad idea I think, how to find an opponent's cloaked dispenser? And I'm not sure it could be done easily.

Also, there are maps where you can hide something easily, maybe not base maps, but big maps that we usually play on are fine to hide (jedi's home, racing something, naboohills...)

[razorace]

I think a deployable ammo generator isn't realistic. Limited ammo is realistic. If you're running out of ammo too quickly, you need to take more ammo and the pistol, which has unlimited ammo.

[Yango]

I personally don't have any problems with running out of ammo, but if we say that blasters shoot with pure energy they may use "personal shield generators" battery. Like 1 point of shield = 1 ammo point. Works like ammo pickups.

Lighsabers are unrealistic as well, cause they dissipate lots of energy producing heat and don't need any source of it.

[TheShaman]

This makes it a lot easier. Anyway the ammo management isn't a priority, is it?

And please don't start discussing lightsaber realism... I've already engaged in long debates about it, and trust me, it's unhealthy for everyone's brain. The best is to admit there is a very very powerful energy cell in the lightsaber, which has nearly infinite energy, and so the lightsaber can stay up long for hoooooours of OJP

[Faelion]

I think a deployable ammo generator isn't realistic. Limited ammo is realistic. If you're running out of ammo too quickly, you need to take more ammo and the pistol, which has unlimited ammo.

I always have a pistol and I don't have a weapon unless I can afford all of the ammo spots (the flamethrower an the other gear are the alternatives). Pistols have long intervals between shots; and ammo runs out during long matches for the other weapons.

(though I don't think that a deployable ammo generator is good; I think their should be some way to recharge)

[razorace]

It's been established that blasters use a form of gas for ammo, not pure energy.

[TheShaman]

I'm not surprised, since shots are plasma (gas being so hot that it loses it's electrons and becomes ions, so basically, hot ions). Although, jetpack uses fuel, and it regenerates, heh where's the mistake...?

[Maxstate]

The funny thing is that Jetpack is supposed to be Jump's rival, with it's regenerative ability and such and the problem lies with it being too easy to buy alongside of Jump, which cancels out it's effect.

[TheShaman]

Always the same problem, balance over realism... I'm probably alone with that mind, but I'd prefer an unbalanced realistic game, than a well balanced with ridiculous things one.

[Yango]

"It's been established that blasters use a form of gas for ammo, not pure energy."

Uh, if those forms of gas are present in maps atmosphere there could be a device to separate and collect some, right? Again, alot of energy is needed to form plasma so my shield suggestion still applies.

 

TheShaman: I'm with you, until I'm to play with (relatively) large amount of anonymous opponents.

[Maxstate]

How about a seperate thread for blasters, reloading and ammo pools so we don't clog up an entire thread on one subject?

[Faelion]

Always the same problem, balance over realism... I'm probably alone with that mind, but I'd prefer an unbalanced realistic game, than a well balanced with ridiculous things one.

 

What? Balanced games are the only good ones! You cannot make one side more powerful. Games don't need to be realistic, but they do need to be fun. Getting KOed all of the time isn't fun if the main reason you got beaten is because you enjoy blasters more than a saber. Gunner battles shouldn't turn out like Kyle's first encounter with Desann. You probably could have beaten him if he was not invincible...

 

So, would you really enjoy realism over fun? I would not.

[TheShaman]

Exactly as I said, except I didn't except Yango to agree with me <3

 

I prefer being forced to lose an amazingly realistic game than to be able to win an unrealistic one.

 

Here's an example:

I'd totally love a game where you are able to pick any Jedi in the geonosis arena, and try to survive against all those droids, knowing that you won't succeed anyway. If the game is well done, I don't care about losing. In this case, realism is more important than balance.