Christianity is a religion of tolerance and other assorted myths

[Samuel Dravis]

How about Stalin?

I addressed this already on page two, here.

[Totenkopf]

Kind of like how people divide themselves up into tribes/nations/etc.. but don't take collective blame when individual members break the law. Why should any group "as a whole" that you belong to ever take the blame for your decision? If you belonged to a coven and one of your members firebombed a church, should everyone in your group take ownership of that person's act? If your adult child goes out and murders someone, is that automatically your fault?

[Thor the Bassis]

Maybe take the blame is a bit extreme but i still think the group shouldn't glorify the acts of the people within their religion. The very idea of becoming a martyr, in some religions, is glorified so much, and the message to persecute certain members of society is so strong, that some people take the law into their own hands.

 

The fact is the messages many religions send their followers are so unclear that they can easily be interpreted as meaning to be violent. The individuals should take the blame and punishment but the religion should try to make their stance on such actions more clear.

[Achilles]

With Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao Zedong, persecution against theists was only natural given the political ideologies they adhered to.

Bingo!

 

No actually most don't 'respect' other people's religious beliefs. They 'tolerate' them and theres a big difference there. I don't expect anyone to respect my religion, I expect them to tolerate my beliefs...i.e not shipping me off to the gulag.

Well said. People don't respect beliefs, they evaluate reasons. Why we are told that we should suspend this perfectly reasonable practice for religion is beyond me.

 

That religious beliefs should be tolerated is questionable as well. This is not to say that religious people should be persecuted (cue Nancy's hysteria), only that it just as permissable to question someone's religious beliefs as it would be to question their beliefs about mathematics, politics, medicine, or any other subject.

[Nancy Allen``]

As you judge others, I am here to judge you, and given your insistence on attacking others the judgement is not kind.

[Achilles]

This is like finding out that they're making a movie about your life and they got Gavin MacLeod to play you.

 

Can I file for a change of venue?

[Nancy Allen``]

Let me make this clear, if you act like a ****head then of course people are going to be angry at you. Don't like it? Then back off.

[Achilles]

Let me make this clear, if you act like a ****head then of course people are going to be angry at you. Don't like it? Then back off.

No, anger I can live with. It's the idea of being judged by someone unqualified to do so that gives me the heeby-jeebies.

 

Interesting though that while I tend to address arguments and opinions, your preference is for name calling and personal attacks. Wouldn't that tend to make your judgements more hypocritical instead of less so? I wonder what your favorite gospel author, John, would think of all this.

[Nancy Allen``]

Unqualified? Because I bring truth and you condemn it? The arrogance.

[Achilles]

When in doubt, quote video game characters.

 

AbE: Sound familiar anyone?

Step away! She has brought truth, and you condemn it? The arrogance! You will not harm her. You will not harm her ever again. As you would pass judgment on her, I have come to pass judgment on you all."

―Kreia to the Jedi Masters as they attempt to cut the Jedi Exile off from the Force and she Force Pushes them back

Emphasis mine.

[Nancy Allen``]

That's enough of that. If that's how you're going to act then religion has already won.

[tk102]

PMs have been sent to Nancy Allen`` and Achilles.

Ad-hominem attacks are not welcomed here.

[Nancy Allen``]

I would like to apologize to the members of the forum for the way I acted, to show that I am man enough, well woman enough, to admit that I was wrong to react to the ad hominem the way I did. Such comments are unhelpful and counterproductive to all involved as I think has been demonstrated here. If I had hurt anyone in my comments then I am sincerely sorry, and will try to respect how other people think in the future.

[Rogue Warrior]

Religion is evil and must be wiped out.

[Achilles]

Another fine example of tolerance compliments of FSTDT:

 

...I take the long, cynical view. We are doing well, but sooner or later we will be faced with a choice to either remove the REAL source of terrorism-- Islam--- or turn around and go home, merely pretending that the enemy is completely defeated.

Have you been 'reaching the masses?' Making friends? Making allies?

 

Are they still Muslim? Well then, you're still an infidel-- and you failed. They'll forget your kindness within a generation of your departure, if it takes them that long; that's just human nature, and an ingratitude that Islam exploits quite readily.

 

We want to defeat Hitler's armies, and leave his propagandist in charge when we leave. Guess how effective that's going to be.

 

Sooner or later, we will finally be at total war with Islam. Because whether or not we want to declare it, it has already been declared on us. Repeatedly. Daily. In every mosque on earth, from the very first Muslim himself. And we won't escape from it by pretending we're not at war.

[Rogue Warrior]

Unfortunately it swings both ways.

 

http://www.ethicalatheist.com/forum/index.php

 

Reading about atheists like this makes me feel dirty.

[Thor the Bassis]

Two facts:

Many atheists think religion is brainwashing.

Many religious people think atheists are immoral.

 

brainwashing

 

Indoctrination that forces people to abandon their beliefs in favor of another set of beliefs.

 

atheism is the absence of belief in deities

 

From these sources we can deduce two things. Firstly that all people are born atheists as they do not believe in deities - they have had no exposure to the idea of a God or Gods. From this we can show that most religions are infact brainwashing as most religions at first exposure tell a child to start believing in a deity and so tell them to stop believing in their belief and start believing in the religions.

 

We can also deduce that atheists aren't immoral as the belief in atheism is simply the absence of a belief in deities and so has no impact on how immoral the individual is - this comes from other life experiences.

 

From this I can conclude that atheists aren't immoral beings.

 

Also I can conclude that religious people are stereotypical, brainwashing liars.

[Achilles]

Unfortunately it swings both ways.

 

http://www.ethicalatheist.com/forum/index.php

 

Reading about atheists like this makes me feel dirty.

Not sure I follow. Thanks for the link though!

 

brainwashing

 

Indoctrination that forces people to abandon their beliefs in favor of another set of beliefs.

As you point out, people are born atheists, therefore making "brainwashing" stick can be a bit sticky. I prefer to use "indoctrinate":

1 : to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments : TEACH

2 : to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principle

 

We can also deduce that atheists aren't immoral as the belief in atheism is simply the absence of a belief in deities and so has no impact on how immoral the individual is - this comes from other life experiences.

Sorry, I have to nitpick. Atheists are no more inherently moral or immoral than anyone else. At one point in my past, I would have argued that human beings are amoral, however more and more studies are showing that we are, in fact, hard wired for moral behavior. My point is that atheists can be immoral. The distinction that I believe you are trying to draw (which is that atheists aren't immoral because of their beliefs) is correct.

 

Also I can conclude that religious people are stereotypical, brainwashing liars.

And people call me names for my views on theism!

 

I disagree, sir. While it is true that many (if not most...if not all) theists attempt to indoctrinate others into their belief systems, I think "brainwashing liars" is more than a little strong. Both words imply malicious intent. Not all that try to indoctrinate do so with force. Additionally, while "lie" may technically be applicable, I think it far more fair to acknowledge that theists have been simply been deluded than to assume that they are intentionally trying to deceive others.

 

Thanks for reading.

[Thor the Bassis]

I disagree, sir. While it is true that many (if not most...if not all) theists attempt to indoctrinate others into their belief systems, I think "brainwashing liars" is more than a little strong. Both words imply malicious intent. Not all that try to indoctrinate do so with force.

 

Sos that was a bit out of order. My point should have been that atheism doesn't inherrently spread untruths about things by itself. Theism does, whether deliberate and malicious or accidental and through honest belief in a system. However small the untruth is there will be one in each religion (there just will be) and unfortunately this divides the world into religions (plus secularism). These divides are the major problems in the 21st century. Whereas when cultures first met there was the problem of racism dividing people, now religion divides people.

[tk102]

Saying something is an untruth, implies you know the truth. Is that what you intended?

[Rogue Warrior]

That there are atheists who...to use the specific example here, put the unethical into ethical makes me ashamed that they are representing a nonbelief of god.

[Achilles]

That there are atheists who...to use the specific example here, put the unethical into ethical makes me ashamed that they are representing a nonbelief of god.

I'm not sure how that works. If some crazy group of serial killers all happen to be right-handed, should I feel ashamed that they are "representing" right-handed people? Tools represent themselves. Their non-belief has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[Rogue Warrior]

Allow me to explain. If an atheist says we should kill Christians how do you think you would feel?

[Achilles]

I think I would disagree with him.

[Rogue Warrior]

Good. Most people would, and have the idea that atheists are like this.