Maya?

[UnaidedCoder]

Ok, I been looking high and low for the right process to take my model I made in XSI Mod Tool 4.2 (modelled it there, I used milkshape to carry it over to Maya 8 becuase I prefer maya's UV editor). Anyways, couple of questions:

 

-Someone gimme the "JKA charatcer modelling for idiots" version, starting where you rig the model.

-I been seeing conflciting usage of the xsi mod tool and 3ds max for export purposes. Which offers better support and what plugins/addons/third party software is required for each? Is Maya a possible option for rigging?

-Can I distort the skeletion or must I distort my model. As it is, my model's legs are longer than the skeletion's, since it was intended to be 7 feet tall.

-The skeletion is in .max format for 3ds max. Any way to safely transfer it over to XSI Mod tool AS A SKELETON (this sort of thing almost always results in the skeletion getting the equivalent of fossilized: It becomes polygons) in the scenario that the mod tool is superior?

[Psyk0Sith]

1.I've written tuts for 3D max:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/psykopat/tutorials/jk2_guide.htm

and here's how you actually attach the mesh to the skeleton:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/psykopat/tutorials/skin_modifier.htm

 

2.3D Studio max 4 up to 8 will export a valid .XSI file and the plugin was written for version 4 at the time. Forget about Maya.

 

3.No you cannot alter the skeleton in any way, period.

 

4.If you can export it to .XSI it should keep same attributes, XSI should see the bones as bones and not convert them to meshes.

[UnaidedCoder]

Thanks for the tuts

 

Yeah i found and tried it on 7 and the exporter works fabulously. Need to go get the importer.

 

Dammit That's why chewie is so short, eh? Shame, a 7 foot master chief would be much better in the long run but if nothing can be done...

 

Now anyways, about the skeletion: I tried that already, but the result is a little annoying. I use mod tool 4.2 (been using it sicne it was released, it is probably the best mesh editor I've ever used but other programs do other fucntions better, but no matter, I can retro convert it back into the mod tool via milkshape). The skeletion isn't converted into xsi skeletions, it's converted into nulls, and not actually having any bones (just joints) is somewhat taxing.

[Psyk0Sith]

Hmm i see, i'll ask around for a XSI version that still has bones.

[UnaidedCoder]

Eh, I might as well just rig it in max 7. It seems to be more adapted to JKA styles (including yours), and XSI's weighting is sort of awkward. Just wish Max 7 had a decent camera to move around the perspective views with.....

 

[edit] might as well show off what i got so far before I finish texturin and deform it to fit the skeletion:

 

[Psyk0Sith]

Press P for perspective view, once you have an object selected, press E, this will recenter the view on what you are working on, i believe they are default keyboard shortcuts.

 

Good luck.

[UnaidedCoder]

Chief has been shaped to fit the skeleton, however I have hit a bit of a snag:

 

1: Where in that mess of bones that makes up the head are the necessary ones? Chief doesn't have a face, so I don't need to pose it.

 

2: I can't figure out how to shape the hand, as the skeltion doesn't seem to resemble a human hand very much save thethumb and index finger. Someone give me a broad idea of how the fingers and thumb should be curled on a hand to be rigged well for JKA.

[Psyk0Sith]

1.The cranium bone is all you need to weight the head since he wont have face anims anyway.

 

2.I reused the JA hands on most of my characters.

[UnaidedCoder]

Well that's great. I guess I need to load up a .glm and check it out, but that in itself is going to be an issue since 3ds max 7 is telling me that the XSIImporter.dli plugin is NOT compatable with this version and will not load it.

[Psyk0Sith]

oh sorry, use the ones in this file:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/psykopat/tools/kyle_no_lods.zip

[UnaidedCoder]

Thank you, but that doesn't help with the issue that the xsi plugin does not seem to be compatible with Max 7.

 

But if I'm reading that readme correctly, you CAN modify that skeleton?

 

EDIT: I found a different xsi exporter plugin to use that is compatible, but it is only an exporter. That will cover me for now I guess, but I guess all my .xsi imports will have to be with milkshape or the mod tool.

 

YAY ANOTHER EDIT:

 

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/134/masterchiefmodeloa7.jpg

 

Assuming that that is separated correctly (I'm going out on a limb here [no pun intended] and assuming that the arm has 4 bones since it sparates in the middle of each) do I even have to bother? I'm really making chief for the sake of multiplayer (single does not work for some reason) and when I look at how there's a hip separator, I realize that I don't think I've actually seen any severed limbs online.

 

Anyways, this is what leads me to my next point: Chief uses two separate textures (one for green and one for black+visor) since I found this more efficient, and noticed that the models used in game use multiple as well. If I combine/merge/whatever the meshes that mage up the segments and export in .xsi, will the game register the textures based on polygons or by meshes (IE, the whole mesh will try to use only one texture instead of both)?

[Psyk0Sith]

Forgot it was in XSI should have looked inside the file.

 

No that's incorrect, the TAGS can be moved, NOT the bones or proportions of the skeleton. You can rotate bones around to check deformations, but they absolutely need to be put back in their original position or else you will have mesh torn apart when it's animated.

 

One thing you should check is the size of your model, i strongly suggest loading this max scene and merge your character mesh into it:

http://psyko3d.50webs.com/tools/JK3Skeleton.zip

it already has the correct size used for Jedi Academy.

 

limbs can be seperated like so

http://psyko3d.50webs.com/tutorials/spacemonkey/jk2_files/image001.jpg

Or simply check the kyle mesh and you will see exactly where raven split them.

 

The game engine doesnt use multiple material IDs if that's what you are asking. It will apply textures by object.

 

P.S.: It will be possible to use this model in single player and limb dismemberment also works online.

[UnaidedCoder]

Yeah, that graph of yours loooks pretty much the same as what I got going. That JKA Skeletion is actually the one I been trying to shape chief into fitting, and I noticed the size issue ahead of time (model was like a thrid of the size of the skeletion) So all that is already corrected.

 

I hope I don't have to go and completely reshape my UVs and textures to accomidate the need to have the separatable limbs a single object. It wouldn't take too long, but I would be quite tedious and repetitive.

 

EDIT: Wait a minute, Hyle's hand is made of two meshes. And he has others like the belt, and some kind of hip/trorso transistor, and a collar. However, all meshes start with one of the five groups your image suggests.

 

This is fantastic. I don't have to touch a thing in regards to the UVs and textures, I'll just make everything making up the severed area a parent of the biggest piece within it.

[UnaidedCoder]

Well I have him completely skinned to the mesh (besides his hands, will deal with that once I alleviate this problem) and he works like a charm from a "pull on bones at random and see how everything clicks" perspective, and I decided to try the autolinker and assimilate now to see what it would churn out. Just as expected, "error 1".

 

See, the problem is your tutorial skips over some rather vital information: The autolinker seems to be based on the names of everything in the heiarchy, but what must they be named for the autolinker to link them to their respective tags? Another issue is this stupid triangle bit: What is the purpose behind the vertical split? Wouldn't it work well enough if you just selected all your meshes and aligned them? Also, a lot of these bones seem to be flat out useless, like the one that makes up the lower half of the upper arm (Why DOES the arm have 4 joints anyways?)

[Psyk0Sith]

"The autolinker seems to be based on the names of everything in the heiarchy"

 

About auto linker, in the tutorial i wrote:

"if you create extra objects (like head_sunglasses) you will need to link them to their respective parent mesh (in this case the "head" mesh)."

 

So you need to manually link them and there's no tags associated with linking of non standard objects.

 

The slicing in half is a modeling approach, if you want to have a perfectly symmetrical character, it's not a necessary step, just how i used to do it.

 

The arm has 4 joints to simulate human anatomy bones (like twisting the wrist) to prevent the "bent straw" look when it's moving at extreme positions, it's very common for rigs.

[UnaidedCoder]

Oh I know about the extra items in the heiarchy (I got several, mostly due to the two seperate textures for the green and black areas). But what are the required names for the caps to make them detected by the auto linker (and as such, link em to their respective tag)?

 

On that note, I think I need to reweight the tags, as moving them to the caps means they act differently. And if what you say about the arm is true, i will probably need to reqeight it anyways since I got the entire forarm weighted to radius x, on account of radius bending in the middle of the humerus.

[Psyk0Sith]

The caps names are usually their parent names and which part they "cap"

 

example:

torso_cap_l_arm_off

 

On the top of my head i cant really name them all but the list is in tim appleby's tutorial:

http://psyko3d.50webs.com/tutorials/spacemonkey/jk2.htm

 

You shouldnt have to reweight the tags, all they care about is which surface they belong to.