DeathBoLT Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 We have the Golan Arms, Heavy Repeater, and the Bow Caster, all which fire bulllets. I honestly don't like those weapons too much (by the look of them) and I hate the fact that they fire metal bullets... If they'd fire plastic bullets, I'd be more happy . I think laser guns would've fit much better into the Star Wars universe. So, plain and simply put: I think Raven is making the weapons out of their head the way they think a good balanced crew of weapons should be. However, one thing I think they're missing is the fact that this is Star Wars and not you're typical quake game... It is neccessary to sacrafice realism and having the game stick the movie 100% for the sake of having decent gameplay. Meaning: you stick to Star wars as much as you can, but its okay to variate time to time to ensure balanced gameplay. Since this game is supposed to be like Star Wars, I want to be able to join ANY multi player game server (mods not included ofcourse) and have it FEEL like Star Wars. I honestly think the way I described how (I think) Force Speed should be done would not only balance the game, but also make it more movie like. I want to join ANY multi player game server(mods not included ofcourse) and have it FEEL like people are competting to be the best and not bother me with RPG stuff, etc. But that would be selfish so I'm content with option for me to play as I want, and others to play as they want, whether it be pretending to be luke sykwalker or playing to win. I suppose you're an avid fan of Force Speed, DeathBoLT, so just out of curiousity, how would you feel if Force Speed was done the way I said in my early post? I think it would kill the 3d feel JK had over Quake3. In JK FF you could attack from any angle, get to any place you wanted to goto in mere seconds. Instead of playing on various portions of the maps, you play on the whole map at the same time. I think it would also hurt the balance of the game, as someone in JK with the surge, guns, etc. could still be evaded and fought if you had force speed/jump and some force mana for grip, etc. If you lose a third of your mana for each force speed/force jump combo, you are only able to do it 3 times before being totally forceless for a moment, thus allowing them to easily catch up with you and finish you off. The alternative is trying to engage them with whatever you have and hoping you can make enough force attacks before they overwhelm you. Force speed and force jump combos were a form of playing NO other game has, and although I was primarily a NF saberist in JK, I really enjoyed playing FF time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAT Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 Originally posted by Silent_One I have 192 MEGS of ram. So there. I don't mean to brag or anything, but I have 256 Meg of DDR RAM. I think I'll be okay in that area, what concerns me the most (and don't get me wrong, it's not a very big concern at all, but merely a very very very very small concern) is that I ONLY have a 16MEG voodoo3 3000 .... yes, yes, I know it's old, and there TONS better video cards out there .... I just don't have the money.... But I want to get a GF4 Ti 4400. GAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irimi-Ai Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 I agree with Silent_Thunder about force speed on both counts. I think the SP will be really cool, so neat that I'll want to use it in every action sequence in the game. I also feel the exact same way about saber duals being more "movie like" and in other forums I've proposed ways to tweak JK1 force powers/settings to make it so. I'm not sure about all of Silent_Thunder's suggestions about force speed in MP, but I definitely agree with the basic idea. I could ramble on about this for a long time, but I'll spare you. Irimi-Ai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent_Thunder Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 ___________________________________________________ "It is neccessary to sacrafice realism and having the game stick the movie 100% for the sake of having decent gameplay. Meaning: you stick to Star wars as much as you can, but its okay to variate time to time to ensure balanced gameplay. " _____________________________________________ Both Dark Forces and Jedi Knight had pretty decent gameplay considering most weapons fit pretty well in with what we see in the movies. The Golan arms, for example, could fire shots similar to the secondary fire on the original repeater... It doesn't need to be metal projectiles, lasers would be just as good gameplay, but wtill retain a Star Wars-ish feel. __________________________________________________ "I want to join ANY multi player game server(mods not included ofcourse) and have it FEEL like people are competting to be the best and not bother me with RPG stuff, etc. But that would be selfish so I'm content with option for me to play as I want, and others to play as they want, whether it be pretending to be luke sykwalker or playing to win. " __________________________________________________ Perhaps you misunderstood me... I'm not saying I want to join any server, and have everyone pretend play as Luke or Darth Vader, or I'm going to have a temper tantrum. What I mean is, no matter WHAT we do it should still feel like Star Wars, since the game IS Star Wars. That means you can still compete, and play to win, while still feeling like Star Wars--or similar to star wars. ____________________________________________________ "I think it would kill the 3d feel JK had over Quake3. In JK FF you could attack from any angle, get to any place you wanted to goto in mere seconds. Instead of playing on various portions of the maps, you play on the whole map at the same time." ____________________________________________ This is where I just simply disagree--and probably with everyone else here too. I did not like the fact that JK had such an ease of movement. I think the slower you move around the map, the more strategic the game becomes... _________________________________________________ "I think it would also hurt the balance of the game, as someone in JK with the surge, guns, etc. could still be evaded and fought if you had force speed/jump and some force mana for grip, etc." ____________________________________________________ I don't completely understand what you're saying there... You mean that since you can't kill someone with just force speed and grip that that's UNbalanced?? That's precisly what I don't like about force speed. If it had limitions on it, then people would want to use it alot less, and think of more strategies then just "force speed around everwhere and choke everyone". Also, guns are supposed to have some uses... You're not supposed to be able to attack someone with a surge and some good guns and expect to be able to fight with just 3 force powers... That's what I call unbalanced. Also, we don't even know if surges will be in the game or not... ____________________________________________________ "If you lose a third of your mana for each force speed/force jump combo, you are only able to do it 3 times before being totally forceless for a moment, thus allowing them to easily catch up with you and finish you off." __________________________________________ That's actually the entire idea behind the way I thought force speed should be... If I'm getting creamed by someone alot better then me I shouldn't be able to just use force speed and run away untill I get enough health packs to recharge myself. Sure, you could use all your mana on force speed, but it probably wouldn't be worth it, but that's the whole point. You'll want to use force speed only when you really, really need it. For example; let's say you're in an enclosed area with just 2 doors oposite of each other. Your oponent steps through the door right in front of you and fires the secondary shot on the heavy repeater, which should take a few seconds to exlpode. The room is too small to evade the blast. And you're health is too low to take the hit. You turn around and use force speed to zoom out of the door way before the bomb detonates. So, it would be used like that... a quick escape when you really need it. _______________________________________________ "The alternative is trying to engage them with whatever you have and hoping you can make enough force attacks before they overwhelm you. Force speed and force jump combos" _________________________________________________ That's another point of my opinion on how force speed should be done. The alternative you mentioned is EXACTLY what I think should be done in a fight. You want to use whatever you have to try to kill them before they kill you. Instead of just using force speed and force choke. But what I don't understand is why you say "before they overwhelm you". They'll have the some abilities as you. Someone who varies there force powers should be able to kill someone who jsut uses speed and choke, I think. ______________________________________________ "I left out how it will balance by accident. It may simply be neccessary to have a weapons that cannot be turned agaisnt their users via the saber blocking to prevent gun use in MP from suicidal. Especially in Jedi Master gameplay where your only option is tokill the only Jedi(to become the only Jedi) with guns. And btw where does it say that the flecettes can be deflected?" ____________________________________________________ It doesn't actually say that the flecettes can be deflected, however, it can be plainly seen in the trailer. BTW, is the Golans and the fletchett the same thing? Since what I am refering to is the Golans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent_Thunder Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 "I agree with Silent_Thunder about force speed on both counts. I think the SP will be really cool, so neat that I'll want to use it in every action sequence in the game. I also feel the exact same way about saber duals being more "movie like" and in other forums I've proposed ways to tweak JK1 force powers/settings to make it so. I'm not sure about all of Silent_Thunder's suggestions about force speed in MP, but I definitely agree with the basic idea. I could ramble on about this for a long time, but I'll spare you."---- Irimi-Ai Wow! I think you're the first person that actually agrees with me on Force Speed on both SP, and MP. I ramble on alot about how I would prefer things to be done. So Please don't refrain yourself from rambling, I'd love to hear how you think Force Speed should be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Obi Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 <font color=cbcbff> You aren't a Star Wars fan are you Deathbolt? Some people like to play the game to have fun, and not just to win. It's people who think they "own" everyone else that take the fun away from the game for everyone. I am not saying you are one of those people, but I know those people share your perspective of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodimus Prime Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 call me crazy, but i think the bowcaster looks great. And I'm not going to care what they call the gun projectiles since most of 'em will probably glow anyway, which is no different from blaster bolts. My biggest concern is beyond any of this though... ...I have a Mac... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 I know that me saying this isn't going to help things, and I don't like to post unless I have something that I consider useful to say, but I have the urge to point out that you guys are WAY too tense about this. It's not easy to just relax when you have this much anticipation built up, so it would be pretty stupid of me to just give you all a collective "relax, man!" Even I have worries about the game. The first fact is that we're all worried about something. The second is that there isn't a dang thing we can do about confirming or relieving our fears until we play the game and give it an honest shot. The third and most important fact is that it is just a game, meant purely for fun (and maybe even a bit of competition). Lots of the worries you folks have exist simply because you haven't played the game. Lemme tell you, overworrying about things like this takes away its intended fun element. Continue if you must, but try to look on the optimistic side of things every now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodimus Prime Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 Yeah, like it MIGHT come out for the Mac. Right? RIGHT ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broode Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 I agree with every single word that Silent_Thunder has said. It looks like we have the same view of what JO should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 Obi: You aren't a Star Wars fan are you Deathbolt? Some people like to play the game to have fun, and not just to win. I'm actually a relatively big fan of star wars.. I own all the movies, read a few books, etc. BUT pretending that I was Jedi never struck me as fun... I prefer the challenge, the strategy, etc. of playing the game for the game, rather than what universe it made me feel in. And where do you get the idea that I play the game strictly to win and not for fun? I'm not getting paid to play this game. I'm not playing it because I have some sort of physcological disorder.. I play to win because competiting in it is where the fun is at... at least where the fun is at IMO. Silent_Thunder: What I mean is, no matter WHAT we do it should still feel like Star Wars, since the game IS Star Wars. That means you can still compete, and play to win, while still feeling like Star Wars--or similar to star wars. I hope this game is at much star wars as is possible except where it disrupts gameplay. Standing stilll trying to out-swing someone in my experience, is flat out boring. The best style of playing melee combat is basing it on movement, and allowing that player a great amount of maneveurability when engaging in melee combat. I think trying to focus saber play on arm movement would be a mistake. That's precisly what I don't like about force speed. If it had limitions on it, then people would want to use it alot less, and think of more strategies then just "force speed around everwhere and choke everyone". JK FF is alot more complex than that. The strategies using force speed/jump, etc. are as complex as fencing, if not more. I mean no offense, but you clearly don't understand the value and complexity of force speed and speed/jump combos. You probably haven't even seen someone use them in the manner I'm trying to describe, so I'm not going to try and bother discussing the rest of the points you've mentioned, as they are the same stuff people have been talking about since JKii.net was launched. I'm getting frustrated going over the same ground with every new group of people. Same complaints. Just new people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAlbaniac Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 To get back to the realistic physics: Originally posted by indianajones9 No, they were knocked off their feet by the saber. By advanced physics i mean when I throw an object will it react realistically. If I use the force and throw a stormtrooper or a crate, when it hits the ground will it roll or slide or bounce realistically or will it just land. Hitman had a good physics system. I hate when i kill an enemy and most of their body is hanging off a cliff. In the early preview i read it mentioned force throwing something down a lfight of steps and it bounced and rolled realistically. Anyone? I remember seeing a screenshot where a stormtrooper's body was half on a higher platform and half in the air. Very stiff. Now maybe it was an early screenshot, but I'm afraid JO won't have realistic physics like that. No quake engine powered game has realistic physics AFAIK... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irimi-Ai Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 Silent_Thuder: I'm just glad to know that there are other people out there (it sounds like Broode and Obi maybe on the same page, too) who like to play the game like I do, which is to make them as cinematic as possible and to make them as strategic as possible. I think one of the best ways to accomplish these goals is to slow things down (e.g. force speed) and to increase mana-cost and/or decrease the effect of force powers. To be honest, I haven't given as much thought to force speed as other force powers. Off the top of my head, I'd be inclined to agree with you about increasing the mana-cost and limiting the effect/duration of the power. Perhaps also making it most effective (i.e. fastest speed) in straight forward movement, somewhat less effective in straight backward movement, and much less effective in lateral movement. This way, using force speed as the quickest escape would also turn your back on whatever you were running from (like in episode one). This would add more strategy to it. Notice, though, that trying to cover distances quickly and far jumps combined with force jump would still be possible. Going straight back wouldn't be as fast, but you'd be able to face the danger you were fleeing. You'd have to decide which is the better option. The lateral movement would be really hampered, as I said mostly to limit force speed circle-strafing and also to emphasize the escape as well as the "giant jump" aspects of force speed. I also really like the AOTL mod for MOTS, where saber blocking had the option of being manually controlled (i.e., nothing is blocked unless you hit the "block" button) and that saber blocking costed mana. In all the books, Jedi/Sith have to use the force to block blasters and such, by anticipating where they will be since they travel so fast. It also added a great strategic element. Do I stand and block all these shots and maybe run out of mana? Do I block and use force pull, which will drain my mana even faster? Do I not block and just start attacking? It also made saber duals much more skill and strategy based, since blocking was not automatic. In another forum, I wrote about how I thought (I know this is unpopular and I'll get flamed...oh well) that force destruction and force protection should have been replaced by other force powers in the original JK. Force destruction is just a big gun, and I haven't played the Zone in years because of the constant tactic of: force speed to closest force surge, fire force destruction as many times as possible before it wears out, run/hide/camp until the force surge respawns, repeat. This takes very little skill or strategy and is mostly done by people who just want the highest frag tally to "prove" how good they are and how much everyone else "sucks". That's pretty boring, and in my opinion just reflects a need to be better than everyone else, which can be insightful into a person's personality. As Obi alluded to and is probably evident, I have no interest in playing with people who just try to rack up frags and "own" everyone with his or her "l337" skillz. Anyway, I made two suggestions to replace force destruction and force protection. What are they? Well, I posted these ideas 3 months ago, and guess what? The same ideas I had were just recently revealed to be in JK2 in the UK PC Gamer magazine! I had suggested force Jedi calm, which would gradually heal and decrease the mana-cost/increase the effectiveness of force powers for a certain duration but had to be used while NOT moving (I wanted it to be like Qui-Gon in episode 1 between the energy gates with Darth Maul). Well, not all of this is going to be in JK2, but the first level of force heal in JK2 only works when standing still and gradually heals. Pretty similar. I also suggested force Sith rage, which would increase attack speed, attack damage, and force powers for a limited time, but afterwards would leave the user drained of mana for a significant amount of time and would also physically hurt the user. The UK PC Gamer magazine said that JK2 will actually have force rage (even the same name I used) and that it will reduce the user's health, and essentially do what I said in my suggestion. I'll stop rambling now. Irimi-Ai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irimi-Ai Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 DeathBoLT (I know these weren't directed at me, however I think Silent_Thunder and I are on a similar page, so I will give my take): "There was nothing stopping you from having movie-like battles except for both parties willingness to have that battle. If you want a movie-like battle, do not use force speed and request that your opponent do the same.. if he refuses, he obviously does not want to role- play and play like luke skywalker. The option for you have this there was present in jk and it clearly will not only be there in jk2, but it'll have been improved upon. As long as that options there, why impose it on other players?" You're right. I'm not trying to impose my ideas on other players. That's why I don't play the Zone anymore. After searching for a long time, I concluded that no one on the Zone is interested in playing how I wanted to play. Which, by the way, is not excluding force speed or any other force power, and not it's not role-playing either. When you say, "playing as Luke Skywalker," it comes across as somewhat derogatory. I'm not sure if you meant it that way, though that's how it sounds to me. I see it as going for a cinematic and more strategic feel. So, I found a few people with similar interests through forums and we play together, and I beta-tested and contributed a couple of ideas to the SBX mod for JK. I don't bother anyone with my preference. I just wish that the Zone or ad-hoc MP games weren't always dominated by the "get as many frags as possible" preference, because that preference of playing *is* imposed on anyone who doesn't share that share that preference by shear numbers(except maybe the AOTL rooms). "I mean no offense, but you clearly don't understand the value and complexity of force speed and speed/jump combos. You probably haven't even seen someone use them in the manner I'm trying to describe, so I'm not going to try and bother discussing the rest of the points you've mentioned, as they are the same stuff people have been talking about since JKii.net was launched. I'm getting frustrated going over the same ground with every new group of people. Same complaints. Just new people." Well, I think I understand the complexity of performing those manuevers, and the value of them, especially in the dominant preference/method of playing on the Zone. It probably is frustrating to be part of the dominant preference and to have to hear people talk about things that don't fit into the dominant preference. I don't mean that sarcastically or facetiously. I don't feel that I (or Silent_Thunder, I think) are trying to convert anyone. We're just talking about things that people who aren't in the dominant preference would like to see in the game. Then we're often told by those who are in the dominant group that our ideas are stupid; that we lack hand-eye coordination; that we aren't good at the dominant method of playing so that's why we play a different way; and all of these judgements are coming from within the dominant preference viewpoint. Essentially, we get criticisized because our viewpoint is not the dominant viewpoint, and wherever they don't match up, a criticism lies in wait. I know my playing preference is different, however it's not because I lack coordination or that I "suck" at the dominant gaming preference in JK. I think Silent_Thunder and I just want the game to more amenable to *both* playing preferences out of the box, rather than for one preference have to make all their own mods and have to go through a lot of work just to be able to play within that preference. Irimi-Ai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 Irimi-Ai, I don't think people who don't use successful tactics, strategies are stupid. I honestly think theres nothing wrong with whatever way you play the game(unless of course your haxoring a no hacks game or something to that effect.) What grates on me is when people incorrectly say or imply that successful tactics and strategies aren't complex or as difficult to pull off as cinmematic battles(concentrating on fencing with someone, etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternity Posted February 24, 2002 Share Posted February 24, 2002 If they'd fire plastic bullets, I'd be more happy . Try to pop Darth Vader or some Jedi with a plastic bullet between the eyes, and be prepared for some whithering scorn from the enemy, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tre Lightshadow Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 I stopped reading, this thread was long, but flecthettes wouldn't be deflected, they would just melt and disintgrate in the lightsaber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Originally posted by Tre Lightshadow I stopped reading, this thread was long, but flecthettes wouldn't be deflected, they would just melt and disintgrate in the lightsaber. that what strikes me as the most likely to happen in the game. I don't remember seeing any trailer, etc. deflecting flechettes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Obi Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Originally posted by DeathBoLT What grates on me is when people incorrectly say or imply that successful tactics and strategies aren't complex or as difficult to pull off as cinmematic battles(concentrating on fencing with someone, etc.). <font color=cbcbff>Actually, I think that when people say that, they are often correct. Take mouse jerking for example. You probably view this as an 'effective' tactic. In reality, it takes no skill to warp yourself around, giving you an advantage over everyone else. It's only fun for the jerker, and for everyone else the fun is taken right out of the game. Many of us choose not to play like that not because we aren't "1337" enough, but because it's just cheap. No matter how effective something is, I don't think it's worth taking all the fun out of the game for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathBoLT Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Take mouse jerking for example. You probably view this as an 'effective' tactic. In reality, it takes no skill to warp yourself around, giving you an advantage over everyone else. Actually I think its a stupid tactic, as I've always found people that jerk run into my saber with little effort on my part, more often than not. Its only been mentioned to give an example of certain properties of JK in play. I personally think any tactic that blindly counts on your opponent to happen to walk by your saber with little control on your part is a stupid one. Whenever I would win in nf sabers, it was done by gracefully and intelligently out-maneveuring people.. something that cannot be done when you're mouse jerking. Many of us choose not to play like that not because we aren't "1337" enough, but because it's just cheap. Its not cheap - however it is very stupid.. a tactic that any truly good player will tell you is suicidal. When someone starts to mouse jerk, they've virtually just handed me a frag. Its only cheap for those who can't see the flaws in it and fall prey to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zodiac Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Newbie warpers dunno where they're going, hitting walls, running into sabers, etc. They are everything you just said Deathbolt: people jerking into ur saber without effort of ur part. But when u master the warping and the tight turns, then u'll be able to see where ur opponent is, whats he's doing, where he's going, etc. You can then use "warp" as an effective defensive! technique. But Deathbolt, you're correct, going offense while warping is real hard to do and getting a hit while attacking with warp is hard. But everybody knows that defense is THE tactic for succesful saberfights, so that's why a lot of people try to warp. Everybody can warp, but only few know how to do it correctly. But the REAL good saberists know how to combine the non-warping style and the warping style, giving them the edge of confusing their opponent with good defense AND having strong offensive capabilities. And the trule best saberists combine those styles with an even more advanced tactic which contains walk-run-bursts while fighting. Only 3 people I know of have mastered that, turning auto-run off, and using different walkig and running moves to confuse ur opponent even more. Vanion_VDS is one of em, you can find his config at the JCI-zone. sooooo... my point is that warping isnt cheap, everybody can do it, but only good saberists know how to use it. And only the best know how to combine several styles and tactics to become a complete nf bgj saberist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broode Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Forget JK for a moment. Take a big, deep breath, and think of something completely different. Relaxed? Good. Now to start, I'm not going to say anything about warping and JK fighting skills. Close your eyes, and envisage a lightsaber system that doesn't rely on the speed of the user. Where using force speed will only get you impaled on someones saber, and running around like a maniac only makes you easier to kill. A system thats slow, cinematic, yet fast paced and difficult to master. Imagine that the "successful tactics and strategies" are what you would expect to see in a Star Wars movie, and not something completely arbritary (like mouse warping skills or running at 1000km/h). Now open your eyes. You have just taken a journey into the saber fighting system I like to call "perfection". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Obi Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 <font color=cbcbff> It was just an example, Deathbolt. I was trying to explain my reasoning, which applies to any tactic like that. Maybe you agree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irimi-Ai Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 "Irimi-Ai, I don't think people who don't use successful tactics, strategies are stupid. I honestly think theres nothing wrong with whatever way you play the game (unless of course your haxoring a no hacks game or something to that effect.)" I don't think those who use successful tactics are stupid, either. The point is, however, that it appears that "successful tactics" to you are characterized as tactics that lead to maximizing frags and minimizing the number of one's own death. This is reflected when you said: "Its not cheap - however it is very stupid.. a tactic that any truly good player will tell you is suicidal. When someone starts to mouse jerk, they've virtually just handed me a frag." If this is your definition of successful tactics, then we are talking about totally different things. What I think are successful tactics would probably seem ridiculous to you, mostly because they are not defined by "winning" or fragging, nor even my player's survival. Please don't respond by asking if purposefully dying is a successful tactic to me (although it occasionally is a good strategy). I'm merely saying that my definition of successful tactics/strategies has nothing to do with "winning", fragging, preventing death, etc. This is what I meant when I said that those within the dominant gaming preference interpret everything from within that preference, and very often don't understand that they are applying criteria that are not applicable to a different preference, and then conclude that another preference is stupid based on these inapplicable criteria. They very often don't even realize that they're doing it, either. "What grates on me is when people incorrectly say or imply that successful tactics and strategies aren't complex or as difficult to pull off as cinmematic battles(concentrating on fencing with someone, etc.)." I completely agree with you here. I'm not trying to imply that the succesful tactics of either preference are more or less complex, difficult, etc. than the other. Like I said, the criteria aren't the same and are not applicable to gaming styles that have different defintions of success. Just as it grates on you that "people incorrectly say or imply that successful tactics and strategies aren't complex or as difficult to pull off as cinematic battles", it grates on those of us with a different gaming preference to be told that *our* "tactics and strategies aren't complex or as difficult to pull off as" frag-fest battles (I don't mean that derogatory, I just couldn't think of a better term). I don't think one is harder, more complex, or better than another. I think they are different and call for different skills based on the definition of success for each perspective. What really grates on me is when people make negative judgements about a gaming preference based on criteria that are not applicable to that gaming preference and aren't even aware of it. It sounds like the same thing grates on both of us. I'm not saying that you, DeathBoLT, do this, so please don't take it personally (unless, of course, you in fact do that. Then I guess taking it personally would make sense). I'm just trying to increase some awareness and promote understanding about a non-dominant gaming preference with JK gamers in general. Irimi-Ai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irimi-Ai Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Broode: I'd love to see a system like that. I'm on the same page with you there, and I think that Obi and Silent_Thunder would be, too. Irimi-Ai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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