Hobo-wan[RXz] Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Thanks for all the answers Chang! I was wondering if its possible for a person to be able to efficiently take on multiple people by himself if everything is equal (force powers/ping/packet loss) between the combatants. A perfect example would be Darth Maul when he fights Qui Gon and Obi Wan, is this sort of thing possible by a good Jedi? Also could a small group of really good Jedi have a chance at a larger group? Say 5v10 or 5v15? Thanks! -Hobo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuRn Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Hey ChangKhan, any comments on dismemberment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan-o2 Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 I'm also curious about the dismemberment. Also, how accurate will the lightsaber be? Say if I wanted to write... "Vader sucks" or something like that on the wall. Would that be at all possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaberPro Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Originally posted by Fardreamer Vade was wearing some form of saber-resistant armour. The hit he sustained was pretty "heavy", I would say. In any case, while a saber would probably kill you regardless of the type of swing, it's not true that it' cuts with infinate ease. There is resistance of the flesh/bones to the blade. Luke sorta outta desperation and just barely sliced him enough...without the armour, Vader would have a sliced arm off already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUS_Tomcat Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Originally posted by ChangKhan[RAVEN] did any of you play an ancient RPG (1988?) called "Knights of Legend" by Origin? It was, IMO, the best RPG I've ever played... the combat model was so deep and intricate. Hey Changkhan, I dont know if you still have that game, or if you still even WANT to play it, but i took a look for ya just in case, and you can download it here http://www.the-underdogs.org/game.php?name=Knights+of+Legend Also for any others that may be interested in it... Twas the least i could do back for all your information giving, besides ordering JO But hey maybe you still have it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Wolf Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Its official, I love this thread...i love lightsabers... Chang khan your my personal hero of the week (last week it was stewy from the family guy) for perfecting the lighsaber moves. It sounds very deep, and god willing this game will be so addicting that i stop playing cs completly (cs is a bad bad adiction for me ). /me holds up his lightsaber *banshiee wail* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCrusher Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 ChangKhan, Here are a load of questions for ya.. A lot has been explained about offensive for the three stances but what about defense? Do the stances offer different degrees of defense? Will light stance only block light/medium attacks? Or likewise will the heavy stance be too slow for quick attacks? Does the optimum stance/defense vs stance/attack provide near 100% protection? Will ducking or rolling under some attacks be possible? and mostly successful (or is there a risk of lossing ones head)? Is there blocking other than auto block? Player initiated blocks? Or blocking with an attack? Are there different variables to determining the effectiveness of a block (auto or otherwise) such as crouching, walking, running, moving forward or backward, stationary? Do the different stances provide for different degrees of mobility and evasiveness ie: speed. As a counter fighter I will likely spend most play time trying to jam my opponents attacks for the counter strike, if this is a valid playing style. Oh and are there any attacks that are counter attacks only. Thanks for all the good info thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithcloak Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Wow this thread is full of info! I haven't finished reading it yet, but i wish i posted earlier, i have missed alot! Sithcloak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxdart Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Originally posted by XxCHAoSxX Why is it nobody who makes SW games ever acknowledges the fact that saber damage is pointless? I don't know if I read correctly, but it appears that you have light hits that don't do much damage, normal hits, and heavy hits that practically kill you. In SW, you get hit with a saber, it cuts straight through whatever was hit, and if there was something important in the way, you die. Basically, you get hit with a saber, you die. Also, 'heavy' vs. 'light' sabers are pointless, because a saber doesn't really have mass. Whatever you want to call it, it's almost weightless, save the handle weight. I'm done yelling and ranting over everything done wrong in EVERY star wars game ever, so I'll ask questions: Will there be different saber styles? I'm not referring to stances, or speed/damage ratios, but will there just plain be different styles? Example - the difference between Qui Gonn's and Darth Maul's single blade style. They obviously fought differently with a regular old single blade saber. Will this be used? Will there be saber damage? I explained a tad angrily that one should die with one saber hit, as they would, but will that happen? Will there be primary and secondary fire, like in JK DF II, or will there only be one attack button? ...And so on and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxdart Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Sorry. What I meant to say was this... Originally posted by XxCHAoSxX Why is it nobody who makes SW games ever acknowledges the fact that saber damage is pointless? I don't know if I read correctly, but it appears that you have light hits that don't do much damage, normal hits, and heavy hits that practically kill you. I'd have to disagree with you there. In fact, I'd strongly argue that implementing 'saber damage' in a game like this is in fact more in keeping with the Star Wars universe as seen in the films. This may be a bit of abstract reasoning, but go with it. The Star Wars films are, in essence, George Lucas' tributes to all of the great action/adventure/serial/whatever genres of movies in the past 50 years or so. The swordplay harkens back not only to Errol Flynn, but also the great Kurosawa samurai pictures. The Millennium Falcon is essentially an intergalactic hot rod, etc. In this sense, Star Wars as an entity is far less dyed-in-the-wool "Science Fiction" than something like Star Trek. More closely it resembles fairy-tale storytelling. To that end, there are vast technical manuals explaining Warp Core technology and, largely, they're justified. Star Trek is that kind of universe. On the other hand, the science behind the hyperdrive (or a lightsabre, for that matter) isn't terribly important. They work because they work... or more importantly they work because a) they resonate with a certain flavor of storytelling, or b) they have strong visual presence. Case in point -- what army would literally construct something as unwieldy an easily defeatable (once you know the trick) as an AT-AT? No one, really. But they work, visually and metaphorically. Luke didn't cut through Vader's arm in ESB simply because it produced something that looked good. Qui-Gon Jinn put a big hole in a blast door in Episode I because... well, because it was just plain cool. Arguing technical validity is only subject to it being contradicted later on in the movies. Yet another case in point -- endless paragraphs have been written on the logic behind lightsaber colors: which ones are valid? Why are some green and others blue? Watching the new Ep II web documentaries produces a telling moment -- Sam Jackson starts a conversation with George Lucas about the colors, and Lucas says the obvious thing: "Bad guys are red, and good guys are blue and green. That's just how it works." Sam casually asks if he can have purple. George says "we'll see". And now we have another canonical color for good guys. At any rate, the point is this: sabres work they way they do in this game (and in JK1) because it's simply more fun that way. There was dismemberment in the last one that was seemingly random, and we _might_ get that here. Who knows. But again, arguing the technical/scientific merits of this stuff can very easily run contrary to the spirit of the films. </rant> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrebel Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Originally posted by Jolts or another way to think about would be almost 2 minutes of animation using what as the basis for fps? 24fps = movie/tv and is choppy as hell for a video game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrebel Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Originally posted by Fardreamer I'm impressed. Very impressed. This was the kind of research I was doing for a possible saber mod, thinking you Raven guys would blow it, but it seems I underestimated your ability to understand players' desires. The original Jedi Knight's lightsaber system was poorly researched, as was most of the game. The developers just threw in any old thing they felt like, without checking if it fit in with the Star Wars theme. this has to be one of the stupidest comments ive ever read. JK1 was developedin house by lucas. and youre saying the game didnt fit in their universe? ok as for the saber system. for christs sake the game was ALOT better than any other game in regards to melee combat. this was after all 5 years ago that the game came out no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrebel Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 well after reading the thread all i have to say is im a lil disapointed its has some kendo roots in the system. but thats cause i am a spanish/filipino numerado system person. I persoanlly feel "stances" are stupid. but as far as gameplay goes. this $h|t is going to rock plain n simple. saber duels ae going to be fun to watch for a change instead of hack n slash n pray like jk1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxCHAoSxX Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 To whomever the hell that guy up there was, the one biatching at me over 1 hit kills: To keep this slightly civil, I'll actually refer back to the guy whose input you referred me back to, but I still don't think people get what I mean. I personally love games that require skill to kill people, and I want JKII to be the same. I just said that it would be awesome if sabers did 1-hit-kills, but blocking should be ridiculously easy, so instead of a saber-flailing jumping contest like in DFII, it would be more duel-ish. To sum it up:Each saber hit kills you or whoever you're against, but it's really freakin' hard to hit them, because they can block easily from almost any angle. That's what I've been looking for in a SW game, and I specifically labeled that little tirade of mine as a rant, which basically means I was venting smoke and didn't expect replies. Just out of all curiosity, what makes you label me by my other name, Havoc? Have we met? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUS_Tomcat Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Originally posted by madrebel well after reading the thread all i have to say is im a lil disapointed its has some kendo roots in the system. The movie fights also have Kendo roots in them... !@? Stances, well, when you have a blade you take on some kind of stance now aint that right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxdart Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Originally posted by XxCHAoSxX I personally love games that require skill to kill people, and I want JKII to be the same. I just said that it would be awesome if sabers did 1-hit-kills, but blocking should be ridiculously easy, so instead of a saber-flailing jumping contest like in DFII, it would be more duel-ish. I agree with you in that regard, actually. I think, though, the best and most satisfying implementation would require tight control of saber placement/swing/etc., so that swinging and blocking is essentially the same package. In that regard, the control for swinging a certain direction might also be the control for blocking a swing coming _from_ that direction. In that sense, the fights would be very 'interactive' and seemingly require the most skill. Handled poorly, it might also be imossibly difficult. Getting it right, I imagine, is pretty difficult. I don't envy the Raven developers in the least -- there's a LOT of expectations attached to any Star Wars title, especially for one with this kind of heritage. The very length of this thread is a testimony to how heatedly people want a 'second-coming' implementation of simulated swordplay. I've read that Obi-Wan for the XBox actually had a good system, but I've never played it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxdart Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Originally posted by XxCHAoSxX I personally love games that require skill to kill people, and I want JKII to be the same. I just said that it would be awesome if sabers did 1-hit-kills, but blocking should be ridiculously easy, so instead of a saber-flailing jumping contest like in DFII, it would be more duel-ish. I agree with you in that regard, actually. I think, though, the best and most satisfying implementation would require tight control of saber placement/swing/etc., so that swinging and blocking is essentially the same package. In that regard, the control for swinging a certain direction might also be the control for blocking a swing coming _from_ that direction. In that sense, the fights would be very 'interactive' and seemingly require the most skill. Handled poorly, it might also be imossibly difficult. Getting it right, I imagine, is pretty difficult. I don't envy the Raven developers in the least -- there's a LOT of expectations attached to any Star Wars title, especially for one with this kind of heritage. The very length of this thread is a testimony to how heatedly people want a 'second-coming' implementation of simulated swordplay. I've read that Obi-Wan for the XBox actually had a good system, but I've never played it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acgreen Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 That be pretty tight to be able to actually control the saber with your hand movements. You know, they have something for the PS2 where you put on these boxing gloves and step on a pad and play the game and the character moves according to what youre moves do. Wouldn't that be tight for someone to make like a little lightsaber handle with gyros and stuff in it and hook it up to a computer? I'd buy that... AC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUS_Tomcat Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 You'd need Jedi Reflexes to manually deflect blaster bolts though (the main problem IMHO if virtual reality ever comes into major being) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrebel Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 Originally posted by TUS_Tomcat The movie fights also have Kendo roots in them... !@? Stances, well, when you have a blade you take on some kind of stance now aint that right... yeah i know. kendo is more popular but its not better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Necro Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 Originally posted by TUS_Tomcat You'd need Jedi Reflexes to manually deflect blaster bolts though (the main problem IMHO if virtual reality ever comes into major being) i have jedi reflexes honest :rolleyes: btw chang, thanks for all your info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious Fish Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 Originally posted by madrebel yeah i know. kendo is more popular but its not better but the jedi arts are traditional-style and formalised, the lightsaber arts were developed during a time of peace like the way japanese sword arts developed after they were no longer used. so the saber arts would probably be formal and stance-based, like katas as opposed to streetfighting EDIT: too much to say, cant be bothered to say it properly. bah im too tired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuluwen Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 Man that rocks.... So many fighting options avaliable to us in duels that its gonna be amazing. You will truly rock if u can master the timing on switching different stances durring fights. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasuki Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 If one blaster shot won't kill you why should one saber shot. ITs a game in reality using a lightsaber is like swinging a flashlight around. IN most games one bullet won't kill you nor like 3 why should one hit do the same in jk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUS_Tomcat Posted March 23, 2002 Share Posted March 23, 2002 guys, dont forget Ghoul 2 I am hoping (expecting) 1 blaster shot in the head or 1 saber stroke in the head to kill immediately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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