Guest Lambda07 Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 I played only the demo but I have a strong feeling that they are some problems with unit balancing. I noticed that usually heavy weapons and Mechs are the key units for conquering enemy bases. On the other hand air units seem totally useless. I still havent tried a fully upgraded Naboo advanced fighter or bomber, but it looks like anti-Air turrets, units and artillery are a really easy and relatively inexpensive counter-measure. In other words it seems to me in general that air units in the game need some more balancing. In particular Naboos have lots of disadvantages compared to the other races: they get good Jedi's, Air units and the royal crusader. That's it. No high end heavy weapons, poor mechs, poor troopers. What do you guys, that already own the game, think about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisw_30 Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 I dont own the game as of yet...but you have only played the demo and are jumping to conclusions... The full game has more tech levels, and more upgrades...play the full version....you will see that the balance in this game is quite good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord JayVizIon Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 upgrading naboo's royal air force to TL 4 is like placing units under a faamba generator, they have TWICE the HP. don't underestimate air units, if you build an army that has no anti air units in the mix, you will get leveled by a player who has air assault capabilities (you should read my thread 'This game is...' b/c that's how rommel and i saved each other against a computer opponent. some civs don't have good mechs (let's face it, the empire has the best mechs around) so its not necessarily true that mechs can win the game for you. this game is soooo balanced that not one unit, not even jedis, can dominate this game unlike other rts games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisw_30 Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Every unit in the game has its own place and they will be all crucial in some way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUMarty Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 I own the game and I really can't say anything about the Naboo yet as I have been primary playing Trade Fed. However, I have played with the Rebels and I loved their air force. The advanced Y Wing was just demolishing buildings very easily and the Advanced X wings were taking out any air to air combat and killing the units on the ground to support my troops and mechs. The shields are a huge plus to the effectiveness of the aircraft. Sure you may lose a couple of planes when taking on a AA tower but that happens. Also your not supposed to attack things like AA towers with Xwings you can bet that your losses will be much more severe than what they would be if you attacked with YWings. So I loved the Rebel Air Force and I can only see the Naboo air being even better with their unique techs on air. I can really see playing the Rebels and not really building hardly any mechs, since their mechs royally suck, and just blasting them with air, jedis, and troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Rommel Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Originally posted by OUMarty [b So I loved the Rebel Air Force and I can only see the Naboo air being even better with their unique techs on air. I can really see playing the Rebels and not really building hardly any mechs, since their mechs royally suck, and just blasting them with air, jedis, and troops. [/b] Yeah! Thats pretty much what I did! The only mechs I built in last nights game, were strike mechs which I used to protect Jay from troop rushes ealry on. So, they are not essential for victory... Also, if you have an ally with good mechs... that helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TarlSS Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 I heard that Air in the full game is greatly improved, so no worries there... Two, Mech's aren't the be all-end all unit. They have three counters: Jedi, Air, and Grenadiers. The Naboo do well in the Jedi and aerial department, so they should fair pretty well. The Royal Crusader is built to counter troopers. Also, don't forget conversions: a player with lots of Jedi will turn your army against you. ( And you can bet a Nabooian will have plenty.) Rebels and wookies should be able to deal competantly against mechs, They have grenadiers and Air/Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tie Guy Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 Originally posted by TarlSS I heard that Air in the full game is greatly improved, so no worries there... Two, Mech's aren't the be all-end all unit. They have three counters: Jedi, Air, and Grenadiers. The Naboo do well in the Jedi and aerial department, so they should fair pretty well. The Royal Crusader is built to counter troopers. Also, don't forget conversions: a player with lots of Jedi will turn your army against you. ( And you can bet a Nabooian will have plenty.) Rebels and wookies should be able to deal competantly against mechs, They have grenadiers and Air/Jedi. Wookies have teh worst jedi... Anyways, if there was one thing that i learned from playing the Naboo and Empire, then it was this: "Having the best Air units will NOT win you the game, having the best assault mechs WILL." A bunch of Naboo N-2's and N-1's are ALOT wasier to defend against then a bunch of ATATs. Of course, everything has its counter, but thats why the Empire has other mechs to be used for support against things like jedi, grenadiers, and air units. So, IMO, mechs ARE end-all units. Ever heard the saying that air untis can't take territory, only ground troops can defeat the enemy entirely. The same holds true in RTS play. Air is for SUPPORT, and should never be used as your main assault force, unless you have simply overwhelming numbers of them. Oh, and the jedi aren't that great, not even the masters. Sure, they can turn other units, but they cost insanely high amounts of nova (the same as an ATAT), and they are much less effective. They normally are destroyed by mechs before they can do too much damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TarlSS Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 I meant the Wookies and Rebels have the best Air/Jedi in reference to the Wookies having good Air and Rebels having Good Jedi. True, the AT-ATs may be a be all-end all unit, but then main weakness is thier expensiveness. You should be harrying your opponent's economy enough that he doesn't have the resources to build up to many. If you just stand there and allow him to build up the best army he can build, it's your own fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WC_heavyarms Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 If anyone here has fought me, which I think is only Tirion, I assign my men in squads, then pull the squad to defeat what is ahead ahead. Works rather well usually. I use a mix, never a one-man army. I found that doesn't work, need lots of strategy cuz opponents mix it up too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emowilli Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 I feel that air is way to strong in the full game. It's not uncommon for me to attack a base with 5 anti air turrets and a fortress and loose only a few naboo bombers. You really have to get advanced anti air and place them closely together to be air proof. The problem is most people won't do this unless they are being attacked by air. So I often wait until around the 40 min mark and attack with 30 bombers and 20 fighters, fully upgraded. In most cases I can completly wipe out the enemy in one shot. It works great in FFA's. The other issues is for slow moving armies. Even if you escort them with anti air, as soon as you knock out the anti air units their army is toast. You can kill a dozen AT-AT's in seconds. Ships also suffer from the vulnerability. I had 8 heavy anti air ships destroyed by Naboo fighters who then made quick work of the rest of my navy. You have to expect an extreme air attack to be prepared for it. Emo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUMarty Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 Ever heard the saying that air untis can't take territory, only ground troops can defeat the enemy entirely. The same holds true in RTS play. Well yeah if you only attack with all air units you will definitely not gain any ground that is why I support them with troops, mechs, or jedis. That same thing can be said about all the units though. If you attack with all mechs and nothing else unless the opponent is new to the game your mechs will be wiped out period. An army of AT AT will become nothing when a bunch of snowspeeders hits them or even better your enemies jedis start turning them against you. I disagree that the AT AT is the end all of units as well. There are just too many counters like everyone is saying. This isn't like AoK where calvary was all you needed except a couple of seige rams or what not. I think the air units have made the whole game take a new shape. Just think about how much harder it is to defend your base in GB than it was in AoK. Also Jedi are very effective in the game especially masters. Apparently the Jedi you went up against didn't have Jedi mind trick or you were smart enough to include a detection unit in your force otherwise the Jedis would be tearing you up. Also a group of 4 or more Jedi can turn about any unit to the other side in about 4 seconds so unless you catch them its hard to defend that. I think having the best air units can definitely win you the game, just like the Empire having the best mechs can win it the game. Its all in how you use the units and what you complement them with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duder Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 im only going by the demo here but AoE is much easier to defend your base than it is in GB... shields and turrets make life much harder when trying to lay siege!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tie Guy Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 Originally posted by OUMarty Well yeah if you only attack with all air units you will definitely not gain any ground that is why I support them with troops, mechs, or jedis. That same thing can be said about all the units though. If you attack with all mechs and nothing else unless the opponent is new to the game your mechs will be wiped out period. An army of AT AT will become nothing when a bunch of snowspeeders hits them or even better your enemies jedis start turning them against you. I disagree that the AT AT is the end all of units as well. There are just too many counters like everyone is saying. This isn't like AoK where calvary was all you needed except a couple of seige rams or what not. I think the air units have made the whole game take a new shape. Just think about how much harder it is to defend your base in GB than it was in AoK. Also Jedi are very effective in the game especially masters. Apparently the Jedi you went up against didn't have Jedi mind trick or you were smart enough to include a detection unit in your force otherwise the Jedis would be tearing you up. Also a group of 4 or more Jedi can turn about any unit to the other side in about 4 seconds so unless you catch them its hard to defend that. I think having the best air units can definitely win you the game, just like the Empire having the best mechs can win it the game. Its all in how you use the units and what you complement them with. What i'm saying is that the ATAT w/support, like i always have, are unstoppable, even by air units. Still, if you had only ATATs and a few AAs then you can still take out entire bases. In fact, i just did that very thing. I had a large assault force, but most of my support got destroyed, as they had ALOT of turrets, but i still hadd almost all of my ATATs, and only a few AA left, but i wiped out the rest of the base with no problem. So, the only real support you need is AA. Oh, and i always take Dark Troopers with me, which are detecor units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUMarty Posted November 19, 2001 Share Posted November 19, 2001 I know the AT AT is a great unit not doubting that I just don't think it is the end all of all units. Unless you made a huge dediction to has AA support the AT AT will get wiped out because of one major reason to me .... Its too slow. The only thing that gives the good air forces problems especially if you send a good sized group is an AA turret or a tower. A group of AA mechs will take out quite a few of them but not enough especially if you concentrate solely on Air and Troops. I guess it just depends on if you know the opponents strat Don't get me wrong I think the Empire is probably the best civ in the game. I just don't think there is a supreme overall unit. By the way have you air lifted AT AT into a opponents base? I think that would be a funny but devasting tatic to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lambda07 Posted November 19, 2001 Share Posted November 19, 2001 Looks like the final conclusion is: A well mixed empire force is stronger then a mixed Naboo force, at least when it comes to get an enemy base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tie Guy Posted November 19, 2001 Share Posted November 19, 2001 Originally posted by OUMarty By the way have you air lifted AT AT into a opponents base? I think that would be a funny but devasting tatic to use. Not ATATs, but i've done it with other assualt mechs, it works great for getting past the first line of defense. It also works well if you air-lift other units like cannons or pummels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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