Sabs vs. guns in MP, some people never learn...

[RamataKahn]

LOL! VaderJM let me explain something to you. Just because you are half japanese and there is a samurai sword somewhere in your family doesn't make you a samurai, or able to use a sword at all. Do you actually train with a sword? I'm not talking about going in the backyard and swinging it around and yelling shwing!

 

Having samurai blood(which I doubt you do, hell the sword prolly came from a pawn shop or soemthing) in your viens doesn't make you a warrior of any kind, a true samurai would display a heck of a lot more maturity about himself and not brag about himself and challenge people in a GAME to real life duel.

 

So in closing I would like to say STFU and STFD.

[VaderJM]

Ramata actually I do train, no not "schwing". I didn't challenge anyone to a duel cause I really don't need to go to jail right now. Don't doubt my heritage, if you said you were descended from knights, I would take your word. I'm immature, deal with it and STFU and STFD, though I don't know what the last one means.

 

Zagadka was on track with his last post, cept for calling me stupid grrrrr.

 

Lightning, the thing is, unless they're in a formal duel, they're fair game from any angle with any weapon.

 

Ack, lastly, people stop trying to flame me with something witty (I know you think you got something) and address the topic of guns vs saber. I apologize for getting off track.

[RamataKahn]

Alright VaderJM, just one last thing. If I where descended from knights that wouldn't MAKE me a knight. That was the main point I was trying to make.

[Jedi Child]

i thought the whole point of playing a star wars game was to use the sabers?

 

(oh right, that's why i stick to duel, so i can get away from the lame ass Quaker Gunwhores ! )

[VaderJM]

Man, us gunners have to find a insult to use against saberist like they have gunwhore against us. Saberwhore is ok but it's not original. It needs to be something that is socially reprehensible. Eureka! Saberraper.

[Spider AL]

The object of a game is to win it. People who play games, tend to want to win them.

 

Now, to win a game, one has to adapt to the style of game that's being played. If people are in an FFA sabres AND guns server and start complaining about being shot, then they're simply not being realistic. Frankly, sabreists should join a sabres only server if they wish to play only with the sabre. Simple.

 

Imagine if you were in a sabres duel server, and someone came in screaming "Where's my FL3SH3TTT3 gun0rz! j00 lam0rz! give m3 meh GUNN!!11" It's precisely the same, unrealistic, immature behaviour on the part of sabreists who expect people to conform to their idea of what JO should always be.

 

A lot of gunners are fools and idiots... but a lot of sabreists are fools and idiots. The way to spot one, is to note what they behave like and what they say, ("3ye 0wn0rzed j000!!!11" etc.) not to condemn people simply for being gunners or sabreists. Do so, and it will split the community into two camps again, just as it was in JK.

 

PS: A useful derogatory term I always liked (though tried not to use) was "stickstrokers."

 

PPS: In case anyone wonders, I live in England, which is why I spell "sabre" this way. It is the correct way in my locale.

[VaderJM]

Spider, that was beautiful man.

[LightningBaron]

Originally posted by VaderJM

Lightning, the thing is, unless they're in a formal duel, they're fair game from any angle with any weapon.

 

my point exactly, ur the sort that plays to be top of a server, not to have fun. i mean ur going on about "being a samurai sword weilding 1/2 jap", so wheres your honour, theres no honour in killing people that are in there own fight and cant defend them selves from someone cowering at a distance and firing shots into the middle of them. sure being top of the server might make you think "wow, im 1337, they all ph33r mah ski11z", but i think ull find your abit wrong, its about making the game fun, not playing it like CS. i really i hope i dont see you on a server, and if i do ill be the first to own your ass with a saber, push, and grip/drain depending on my mood. a saber takes skill, a gun takes a second to aim and are in countless other games

[SlimChance]

I've got a newbie question for you guys? The search is disabled, so I couldn't search for it.

 

But, how exactly do you deflect shots with the sabre? I've got my sabre defend maxed out, I'm just not sure what key strokes(?) do you use. Or do you just stop, and go into crouch and that automatically enables you to deflect gun fire? And what are these different stances, everyone's mentioned?

 

Again, I just got the game last Friday and have played maybe 4 hours of multiplayer. So please be kind and provide some education and maybe at somepoint, I'll be able to give you guys a real challenge online.

 

Thanks,

[LightningBaron]

none at all, just stand with your saber in the ready position and it defends automatic, same with blocking someone elses saber attacks. but with the stances, there are verious ways to use the saber, fast, medium, and strong, in fast stance u do less damage but can swing quicker and move your saber faster to block, medium is alittle worse but stronger, strong is worst for speed but best for strength

[VaderJM]

You see that's the thing, honor is a concept that is only used in real life, it doesn't belong in a game, a game is designed so you play to win, in whatever way possible.

 

Actually I've been practicing a lot with the saber, just got done playing on a saber only server, and 90% of the time I was in the top 3

[Cracken]

Personally, I'm far more worried about Dark Side drain and lightning than guns when I'm in a guns/sabers server. I mean, saberists can always PULL the weapons out of people's hands, or push them down and rush them. However, drain and lightning are an almost unstoppable combination, especially when coupled with an ionization gun or missile launcher.

[chiablo]

you know what?

 

the only game I have ever played online with the purpose of winning has been Unreal Tournament.

 

All other games I have played online with the soul purpose of having fun.

 

I play counterstrike because it's fun, If I played to win, I would get so frustrated with all the Ch34tXx0rs that I wouldn't play.

 

Same with Jedi Knight ][. I play to have fun. If there's a sniper that keeps blasting your head off as soon as you spawn... don't get mad, challenge him to a duel, if he refuses to, get everyone to gang up on him.

 

if there's a gunwhore who's killing everyone, pull his repeater and shove it up his butt.

 

have fun or leave the server.

[Daxonn]

Ok, i'm bumping this subject back up to the top because the balance of the sabers versus guns is the most concering issue for me right now. To me, the heavy repeater alternate fire is the best weapon in the game, hands down. Now, this could just be because everyone's a newb at the saber and people haven't figured out a way to beat it yet, not sure. But in my many hours of playing CTF this weekend, the heavy repeater was easily the best weapon. Sabers may be more fun but there will always be people using this gun and it's a huge advantage. I used it for a good part of the weekend and did really well with it but eventually realized that this was the only weapon i used and that gets boring after a while. The problem is that if i switch to saber and force i just get destroyed by anyone who's good with this weapon. And you may say that i should switch to a saber only server, but i mostly like CTF and i didnt see a single ctf server that was saber only. maybe there's a couple out there but i don't want to spend all my time just trying to get into the 1 or 2 servers that are setup the way i want.

 

So anyway, i'm stuck in a bind.. not sure what to do. This game really interests me but i'm bored of the heavy repeater and in my opinion no other weapon really has a chance.

 

Here's the response i'm expecting:

 

"Learn to use the saber and force and u can beat any gunner. "

 

Sorry, but i just don't buy this. I used the saber a bunch this weekend as well in ffa's and in duels with computer.. and while i'm no expert at it, the logistics just don't work out. I really wanted to believe that this was the superior way to play, like many of you, but i really think it's just not balanced right. Probably the best solution i've seen is people pulling guns out of my hand. While this works, it's very difficult to pull off and not reliable at all.. and even if you do, you're not guaranteed a win. Any other method like using speed or push or jump can be beat by simply moving around, or even using some force powers yourself like drain or absorb.

 

So someone please fill me in and let me know how you are beating the repeater alternate fire so easily like so many of you are claiming. I want to hear it because this inbalance is having a bad affect on the enjoyment of the game for me.

[Retro]

Thats the whole point though, the repeater alt fire is TOO good. The very first time I used it, all I had to do was camp at our flag, and the enemie couldn't cap, because a few hits and your head. And since it fires so fast, thats not hard at all. Splash weapons need to be slower speed, and slower ROF. With the force as your allie, you SHOULD be able to counter any weapon, but try catching that guy whos force jumping around spamming repeater alt fire. You die in 3-4 hits, and cant catch him. "Just pull him" Yeah, pull him, so he can get closer to you and it's eaiser for him to hit you. "Pull his weapon" I've never seen a weapon pulled from someone in MP. The repeater alt fire doesn't even do the same damage to self as it does to the enemie. So they can spam it point blank as well. If you can own with repeater primary fire, or any projectile besides rocket, I congratulate you. It's when weapons that there is no defence against and kill very fast, that the game becomes quite unfun at least to me.

[Aim]

I still bet you that ne saberists from jk1 cannot die from guns. Probably where playing some noobs who were just running and swinging randomly! ! ! BTW: I want spork for jk2! ! ! !

[EZ|Lestat]

I agree that it's a balancing issue and I hope that Lucasarts patches the rate of fire for the heavy repeater rifle. Overwheming Jedi with superior numbers is one thing but honestly a lightsaber and force powers should be sufficent to hold of any enemy, no matter what weapon they're holding. At present that just seems to be impossible against the heavy repeater, at least head on.

 

1. Someone posted (sorry I can't remember who) that he normally pushes one shot back, then uses the time to escape, rather than mount a sustained attack.

 

2. Someone else posted that you -can- disarm opponents at short range with pull. I haven't done it myself yet. Can anyone verify this?

 

If we put these two together + mindtrick/speed/rage to get closer to the repeater-holder, does it make it possible to disarm him then slice him?

 

Let's stop whining (I don't mean that everyone is whining, pls take note and spare me. and find a way to beat this... outside of that I think the Raven team will recognise it as a balancing issue and fix it, or they've thought of a way to beat it that we common people haven't figured out yet.

 

Btw just a thought but if 2 jedi are together dueling and they note repeater fire, maybe they can form a temporary truce and take turns pushing the repeater fire back, then take the gunner out together. (one grip and the other slice... heheheh). Happens sometimes when two people are standing around waiting for a duel to end so they can start and someone comes along wildly slashing... take out the interfering people, then get on with your fight.

 

If someone finds something that works for them... pls let the rest of us know, yea?

[Yodas mum]

I have been playing MP for longer than most here in Australia because of the earlier release date, and most players have realised that the alt attack on the pulse rifle dominates most games because it has a good rate of fire, heavy damage and large splash radius.

 

I'd say I could hold my own against most people 1v1 with guns but the problem is in groups where the spam is too much. When your trying to capture a flag and you have to force push back 3 bolts being spammed as well as being pulled around because these guys can use force powers too. Its too hard to counter all the spam you cop by just using push, and you're normally running away with the flag so you dont want to get closer for an opportunity to use pull and get their weapons.

 

Somehow more balance needs to come into the weapons so that you can push back all the bolts fired at you without being overwhelmed. The weapons in any game should focus more on skill than spammy luck, there are plenty of guns in the star wars universe that dont spam and could have been incorporated. Right now the best guns are all spammy in some way and dominate when in the right hands.

[Painreliever]

I am afraid that I probably fall under the category of "lame" gun user to most of you, sorry, its what I know. I never got into JK enough to really get into the saber, and while I would like to and plan to try to learn to use it I think too many people are taking offense to gun kills, "lame" tactics", whatever you want to call using the guns.

 

I tried using the saber out of the gate and got struck down time and time again because I couldn't tell if I hit anyone couldn't get a feel for where a swing could land a blow. Now granted a person can learn to use a saber(I still plan to), but I fail to see many of the arguments that say a person is lame for using weapons.

 

I totally agree that if you don't want to get splash damage killed don't play on a guns server. If you don't want to get force pull, pushed, gripped into a pit play on a server that doesn't use the force. There are things in games that get old, spawn camping, a person that camps the sniper rifle in a spot not easy to kill. They are also part of the game.

 

I am a gun lacky. I get a gun, expell the ammo into a crowd, do my best to avoid any flying and swinging sabers and find more shield, health, and ammo. On occassion when thats not available I pull out the light.

 

I have only played online twice so far. The first time I played for like 5 hours and was consistently in the top 3. I'll admit there were some people who owned me with a saber. I shot myself on more than one occassion. I just think that there are ways to defeat anyone in any situation. You need to explore the possibilities and adjust your stategy faster then the other person.

 

For instance, I come around a corner, see someone running away...I pull out stormtrooper blaster and aim for the neck. oops missed, he turns I switch to rapid fire as he closes, he starts to deflect I rip into level 3 force lightning, he closes in for the kill waving the saber, I backup and give him a face full of blaster while letting force lightning charge back up. If need be jump over turn a corner do something unexpected, force push him to get some breathing room and then press the attack. A good portion of the time I get that kill. That's not cheap thats playing with stategy.

 

If a group of people are running around waving sabers wildly and you have the missle launcher explain to me why it is cheap to shoot into the crowd, with any weapon? If I have the nuke in UT I always go for the biggest group, it would be a waste to use on anyone else unless they had the flag. Covering your back should be something that is inherant to defending yourself from getting killed. If you decided the group of people make an easier target for your saber and leave cover you risk getting shot. What is cheap about that, you made that choice to go into the open, I only made the choice to make effective use of ammo and expend it in a way that results in more kills. If I run into a group of people with no long range weapon it is because I think there is a chance that one person may be close enough to death that my force lightning leeches a kill from someone using a saber.

 

If you are playing a FFA server and guns are available and you don't like it, play somewhere else and don't condemn the people who can have fun playing with guns. The goal is to have fun playing a FFA game...if you can't do that join another server. Simple matter. I have no doubt in my mind that there are many excellent saber users who could own me a good portion of the time especially dueling, but I think the point that needs to be made is that you make the decision to join a game and gametype. You have the ability to play the game you want to play, its there for you to have fun with. If you can't have fun don't play, don't ruin someonelse's fun by kick voting them, calling them lame or saying they have no skill if you are on the losing end of any battle.

 

I almost never play online anymore, because cheating has gotten to the point in most games that online play is a waste of time. If you want to impose rules on people then make your own server...

 

I played Rune where we had Honor servers and people could duel even without a feature to make them impervious to the other players. It was fun until some guy came along who didn't want to play nice and deliberately came in to ruin the fun. Thats what cheaters do. I had patience with people who came in and didn't understand the rules when the rules weren't written anywhere for them to see.

 

There are too many things in this game for people to think they are undefeatable. The force powers all have weaknesses. The saber does have draw backs. Guns have draw backs. The skill is in getting around the drawbacks to win. The funny thing is that when I go into a FFA server and I am chasing after someone and they turn and get the best of me, I am not upset...its part of the game, someone shoots me from across the map and disintegrates me, part of the game, someone force grips me and throws me off a ledge, part of the game. The part that shows your skill is learning how to defeat the other tactic, and what I am excited about in this game is that there seem to be a vast number of possibilites to balance your attacks, defense, and counter attacks through use of ranged and melee weapons, and your selection of force powers and their strengths. There is not an unstoppable player-build, there are only people who have mastered the weaknesses of what they prefer to use. I applaud and laugh with anyone who catches me near a pit and manages to grip or pull or push me in. Shame on me, good for you..I'll try not to let it happen again. Don't hate me for using what I use, in a game or game type that allows me to use it for success and fun. Grow from the losing or from the dislike of what I do and find ways to stop it within the game. Don't expect me or the developers to stop playing the game the way it was made because you can't master your weaknesses.

 

I know this is really long, most of you won't bother to read it. The only thing that bothers me are people that are out to ruin other's fun by turning the game into something it was never meant to be, cheaters, people that use flaws in the game maliciously. Guns are not a flaw in the game. If you take away my gun you take away something that adds to the mystique of Star Wars, you'll never reflect my shots, isn't that part of what makes being a jedi cool? Its knowing that you can counter brute power with control. Isn't that what Luke did shooting a proton torpedo into a tiny hole to take out the Death Star? You can hate me if you want, call me lame if you want, but I'd really appreciate it if you didn't try to kick vote me off servers because you think my tactics don't fall in line with your idea of Star Wars ethics.

 

Now on with the flaming...

Painreliever

[Darf]

You guys are all missing the point, in ffa guns will win scorewise on saber weilders because you simply kill more people with them. Period.

 

You cannot kill nearly as many people just running around trying to hack people up. Its like using the Gauntlet in Q3...

 

You can deflect, push rockets and whatnot all you want, but when I come upon 3-4 guys sabering like idiots they are getting a few rockets up their asses

[Darksider]

Yodas Mum?? The same Yodas Mum who i duelled , beat twice , then lost once and you started going "SMASHED" "I OWN YOU" and then i had to beat soundly 6 times with you making inane excuses and then quitting the server?

 

I also recall having to cast you into the infinate void a few times on ctf_bespin......

[MechDeus]

You cannot kill nearly as many people just running around trying to hack people up. Its like using the Gauntlet in Q3...

 

Yeah, but Grapple (and Quad-Grapple) kills are so much more fun then any other weapons. Sure, tons of people can stay at the top os score lists with the railgun, but the knowledge that I have stayed within the top five scorers on servers (with around twenty people on average) with nothing but the Grapple brings a smile to my face. Something I really couldn't care as much about with something like 15 "Excellents" across my screen.

 

Honestly, I agree with many of the people here. If I wanted some gunfests, I'd boot up Q3 again and go play some Threewave, but that's not why I'm here. It's to play with Force and Lightsabers. Now, yes, if you're on a gun server, you need to be well-versed in both the lightsaber and the guns, you cannot be truly with either alone. The lightsaber mixed with Push can allow you to run straight down halls and not get hit, while the guns allow for more immediate damage, and from a farther range.

 

The main drawback to the lightsaber is its uncontrollability. The clipping is pretty massive, and the lack of a truly specific control hurts it (as one cannot perform certain moves while moving in certain directions, a major drawback).

 

I do think that the alt fire everyone's talking about needs to be slowed down, but otherwise is fine. Its speed allows for far too much abuse (which it gets), there needs to be some incentive to use the other weapons (and maybe sprinkle that weapon a bit less among the maps, ala Q3, where every map doesn't have the Rocket Launcher and Railgun).

 

I think we all agree the game needs tuning, but that's why we're here. To help tell Raven what needs to be done.

[Muzzle]

Force pull DOES work on weapons, as long as you are right up in your opponent's face when you use the power. As in, touching them. If they're more than a step or two away from you, you'll just pull the whole person and not the weapon.

I thought it was broken too, but after a few hours of play, I've found that you'll yank the weapon about 3/4 of the time as long as you're next to the person. Makes life considerably easier against the gun-toters. Also fun to use on people in mid-air, or heading for an item.

[Yodas mum]

Darksider, you're the one who started that **** by saying "GF" after I smashed you in our first duel, anyway that has nothing to do with weapons in the game or this topic.

 

BTW keep tuggin over throwing me in the void on bespin, I went on to capture the flag and topscore and I recall seeing you mid range on your team for scrore as usual without doing much for teamwork because your a void throwing whore.

[Kinopio]

Originally posted by VaderJM

This isn't honor. This isn't a sword fight, cause frankly in real life, I would win against 90% of you in a sword fight. This is a game and you play to win, and if you want to win a good chunk of the time, you play it smart by using guns. You shoot people in the back, you shoot them when they're fighting someone else, and you run from fights you know you can't win. That is how you play the game.

 

Sorry, you have it wrong, 20% of people play to win, me and the other 80% play to have fun, JO did sabers/guns right, and playing with sabers is fun, like someone said i could go play the other 19 million FPS's out there if i wanted guns only, after playing cstrike and tribes 2 for 2 years, i'm frankly sick and tired of guns and JK2 is just the thing i needed, a refreshingly new idea for a game.

 

JK2 is my savior.